Small engine dyno

[Steamchick]

Hi Byron,
You could have mentioned that we are not as old as Methuselah, yet we have heard of him as we are well read...
Or you could have asked him if he had any straight 50W Castor Oil, as produced (still) by Castrol as Castrol R racing oil for engines in classic racing of a certain age.... Sterling Moss complained that went he wasn't leading races he had to rush to the loo after a race with the trots, from ingesting so much castor oil! I am not that old, but remember him! (And the smell of Castrol R!). Funny? - Well that's where Castrol got it's name! - from lub oil from Castor oil.... when Texan crude oil was just being developed and was too expensive to import to the UK.
As to a centrifugal inlet air filter... Works well for sandy regions - like the deserts of Iraq... where they were fitted to tanks etc. as pre-filters. (Or so I guess, as to say "I know" might incur the wrath of someone...!) - but the finest filters are still paper as they manufacture the finest paper threads into a random matrix - then stretch it to make very long narrow slots that trap micron sized particles but retain a large cross sectional area for minimum pressure drop. Just what you need for naturally aspirated engines on the intake! So buy a small good quality car air filter, cut out the paper and make your own. - Or a paper Covid mask...! (A used mask is OK, the engine won't come to harm from the virus!) - Just steam it first to sterilise it, so you don't catch something from the dirty side!
Sleep well!
K2

 

[Bentwings]

Hi Byron,
You could have mentioned that we are not as old as Methuselah, yet we have heard of him as we are well read...
Or you could have asked him if he had any straight 50W Castor Oil, as produced (still) by Castrol as Castrol R racing oil for engines in classic racing of a certain age.... Sterling Moss complained that went he wasn't leading races he had to rush to the loo after a race with the trots, from ingesting so much castor oil! I am not that old, but remember him! (And the smell of Castrol R!). Funny? - Well that's where Castrol got it's name! - from lub oil from Castor oil.... when Texan crude oil was just being developed and was too expensive to import to the UK.
As to a centrifugal inlet air filter... Works well for sandy regions - like the deserts of Iraq... where they were fitted to tanks etc. as pre-filters. (Or so I guess, as to say "I know" might incur the wrath of someone...!) - but the finest filters are still paper as they manufacture the finest paper threads into a random matrix - then stretch it to make very long narrow slots that trap micron sized particles but retain a large cross sectional area for minimum pressure drop. Just what you need for naturally aspirated engines on the intake! So buy a small good quality car air filter, cut out the paper and make your own. - Or a paper Covid mask...! (A used mask is OK, the engine won't come to harm from the virus!) - Just steam it first to sterilise it, so you don't catch something from the dirty side!
Sleep well!
K2

. Oh you guys are making me laugh early in the morning. I’m glad still can do sit ups . It keeps my belly from shaking when laughing . As a kid I remember buying bakers castor oil for model airplane engines. Drugstore castor oils had other things in it . Model fuel smelled like perfume to us.. then I was introduced to nitromethane . This lead to drag racing and spending sponsor money wildly . Good thing steamers don’t work well on nitro . It’s a poor fuel as you need lots of it. It has poor potential heat compared to gasoline but it carries its own oxygen that with the right compression and supercharger boost it goes off hard some times enough to literally burn the tops off pistons and shear rods and twist crankshafts righ off. In near hydraulic lock it detonates like dynamite . Steam is nicer . That prompts a question between laughs, does castor oil work in steamers? There is an oil that has it in it and there may be a local supplies of castor oil .
Byron

 

[Steamchick]

I don't think castor oil can withstand steam temperatures! Steam oil is a selection of the highest temp.fraction from the distillation from crude that is liquid at room temp. & 50W viscosity.
K2

 

[Bentwings]

I don't think castor oil can withstand steam temperatures! Steam oil is a selection of the highest temp.fraction from the distillation from crude that is liquid at room temp. & 50W viscosity.
K2

Hanks , I’ll check out bakers castor oil glade I don’t need doses of it excep for hobby items
Byron

 

[Steamchick]

Byron,
I reckon if you want to spare the dollars and not buy the proper stuff (50W Steam oil) then get some 50W oil for a diesel engine. It contains a lot of detergent (compared to Petrol engine oils). Engine oils are MUCH more complex than "simple" oils (like steam oil) because they have to counteract all the problems (chemical, mechanical, and thermal) excountered in the engine. Steam Oil gear oil, etc. is much simpler.
The engine oils have relatively huge amounts of viscosity improvers, acid neutralisers, water emulsifiers, anti-sludge chemicals, etc.. that work effectively on steam and lots of organic nasty gases at high temperatures encountered with the chambers in an infernal combustion engine, so "easily" cope with steam engines. Diesel engine oils more so than petrol engine oils. (The hot bits in diesel engines can be hotter than the hot bits of regular gasoline engines anyway). The reason for "high viscosity" instead of the car engines' multi-grade, is that steam oils do not need to be "thin" at -30deg.C - you always pre-warm steam engines with the steam to "fairly hot" before trying to use them to do any work, and to prevent hydraulic lock from condensate! So don't get multi-grade oil for your steam engines. The lighter (small number W's) in the blend of a multi-grade oil will flash-off at steam temperatures and not do a lot of work, so waste your dollars!
But one rider... If you superheat your steam (Highly reccomended!) then you do need proper SUPER-HEAT steam oil. - NOT I.C. Engine oil.
Hope this helps?
K2

 

[Bentwings]

Byron,
I reckon if you want to spare the dollars and not buy the proper stuff (50W Steam oil) then get some 50W oil for a diesel engine. It contains a lot of detergent (compared to Petrol engine oils). Engine oils are MUCH more complex than "simple" oils (like steam oil) because they have to counteract all the problems (chemical, mechanical, and thermal) excountered in the engine. Steam Oil gear oil, etc. is much simpler.
The engine oils have relatively huge amounts of viscosity improvers, acid neutralisers, water emulsifiers, anti-sludge chemicals, etc.. that work effectively on steam and lots of organic nasty gases at high temperatures encountered with the chambers in an infernal combustion engine, so "easily" cope with steam engines. Diesel engine oils more so than petrol engine oils. (The hot bits in diesel engines can be hotter than the hot bits of regular gasoline engines anyway). The reason for "high viscosity" instead of the car engines' multi-grade, is that steam oils do not need to be "thin" at -30deg.C - you always pre-warm steam engines with the steam to "fairly hot" before trying to use them to do any work, and to prevent hydraulic lock from condensate! So don't get multi-grade oil for your steam engines. The lighter (small number W's) in the blend of a multi-grade oil will flash-off at steam temperatures and not do a lot of work, so waste your dollars!
But one rider... If you superheat your steam (Highly reccomended!) then you do need proper SUPER-HEAT steam oil. - NOT I.C. Engine oil.
Hope this helps?
K2

I did find places overseas to Oder steam oil so I may be relegated to doing this. Mean time I spent the better part of yesterday and until very early today looking for alternatives and why steam oil came about in the first place. Turns oil steam oil has tallow in it. Then along came rapeseed oil now not available in Europe but the alternative is canola cooking oil. Coconut oil and sunflower oils also work. In ww2 castor oil was extendsively used in aircraft engines . Even today some AC ENGINES REQUIRE CASTOR OIL FOR BREAKING . I used to use Klots castor oil in my glow model engines then used their two stroke oil that had castor oil in it . I just dug out my 60 cc gas model engine that has been wrapped up for 25 years and it still turns over with lots of compression. I ran that motor on the edge almost every fligh for 13 years it’s been near bullet proof. It turns over smoothly and still has a good pop from the exhaust . I can get Klotz locally or mail order. I’d like to try the castor oil . I found it on the internet . Bakers isn’t around any more but others have stepped in I just finished a highly technical writing on oils including castor oil other vegetable oils an the newer pure synthetic silicone oils ironically they can be mixed. Castor oil was cleaned with hexane but I don’t think I want that around. Actually 100% alcohol or better kn as methanol will cut it too as does high detergent soap . Castor oil is used in hair treatment and skin treatment canola oil and other veggie oils are more often used now I don’t have to worry hair is nearly gone LOL THERE ARE SOME REALLY GOOD SILICONE GREASES AND DIFERENTIAL OILS THAT COLD WORK ON MODEL STEAMERS THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO WORK WELL IN WET INVIRONMENTS . I’ll experiment a little. My grand son is into hot rod Rc cars and they really abuse moving parts. He showed me a diff that he has lots of use from and it looks near new inside gears and bearings are perfect. . There are some silicone oils that have micro particles of Teflon in them too. These were noted in the tech article I was reading .

byron

 

[Steamchick]

Teflon is peculiar in bearings and sliding surfaces. It is not hard like molybdenum, and fills microscopic "cavities" in surfaces of metals. It also has a low thermal conductivity, so partly restricts cooling of bearings and surfaces. = the reason it was not favoured in the 1980s when I worked on engine design. Pistons cool in various ways, one path for heat flow is from the piston skirt at the bearing surface to cylinder wall, via the oil film. In fact some of the heated oil film is washed away by cooler oil splashing from the con-rod. PTFE was not found to reduce friction (generated heat) in calibrated engines, and in a couple of cases temperatures were slightly higher... if my memory is correct?
PTFE coated bearings (greased appropriately - I think it was a silicon grease for water resistance?) from Glacier were tried on some con-rod eyes of high voltage switchgear I designed, but they were not durable under the high bearing loads we incurred. We reverted to (proven reliable) bronze on steel bearings with grease.
K2

 

[Bentwings]

I think you are right about the micro Teflon particle oil . The paper I just read today noted that there was minimal difference using it over other oils. I worked on a military project that the contract called for using it. It wasn’t easy to get proper certification for the stuff. I don’t remember what the project was but something that flew and very high cold environment.
byron

 

[Steamchick]

I have used "PTFE loaded" spray to lubricate door locks. Very effective and very clean. So it has useful lubricating applications, but knowing the sensible ones is a bit of guesswork, rather than Engineering, unless you are the Designer and tribologist! It was designed as a material for its High temperature and ablation properties (on spacecraft, etc.!), although some "aircraft" (Expensive and special) and special cables use it as primary electrical insulation. As it is not plastic, it comes as dust and needs to be sintered into the finished form (e.g. around the copper wire) at temperatures around 350 deg.C. (From what I remember of the special wire manufacturing cell in the Cable factory I worked at). It is not a naturally flexible material, so bends were limited with the wires insulated with PTFE, but the insulation was used for special high temperature applications such as in Jet engine hot zones, where silicon rubbers would degrade too quickly, and glass woven insulation is inappropriate. Domestic cookers use "cheaper" glass woven insulation in "Hot zones", which mechanically is OK for the static nature of domestic cookers! (The glass fibre manufacture for woven glass materials came before the use of glass fibres in fibre-optic telephone cables. Another product line in my CV...).
As a "solid" product, We used it in High Voltage circuit breakers to direct gas flow to Quench electric arcs in circuit breakers. These parts could be machined from solid (for prototypes), but were sintered at hydraulic pressures in Hot molds by the PTFE component specialists. Due to the temperatrure of the arcs, (up to 5000deg. C.) the PTFE ablated into Fluorine/Fluorides which combined with the Sulphur-hexafluoride gas used in the circuit breakers. (After 20 power breaks the circuit breaker was serviced, as these nozzles were so blasted with more power-breaks they would be at risk of causing the cicuit breaker to fail to quench an arc. - Many tests proved their "safe" lifetime.). Part of the reason for using PTFE was its chemical composition and compatibilty with the arc-quenching ability of the SF6 gas. The use of PTFE for non-stick cook-wear and as a low-friction bearing or seal material, came after its initial development by NASA for spacecraft. PTFE seals have very low friction, poor durability, but very long life as the material doesn't degrade like elastomers. Fascinating stuff to work with!
K2

 

[Bentwings]

I have used "PTFE loaded" spray to lubricate door locks. Very effective and very clean. So it has useful lubricating applications, but knowing the sensible ones is a bit of guesswork, rather than Engineering, unless you are the Designer and tribologist! It was designed as a material for its High temperature and ablation properties (on spacecraft, etc.!), although some "aircraft" (Expensive and special) and special cables use it as primary electrical insulation. As it is not plastic, it comes as dust and needs to be sintered into the finished form (e.g. around the copper wire) at temperatures around 350 deg.C. (From what I remember of the special wire manufacturing cell in the Cable factory I worked at). It is not a naturally flexible material, so bends were limited with the wires insulated with PTFE, but the insulation was used for special high temperature applications such as in Jet engine hot zones, where silicon rubbers would degrade too quickly, and glass woven insulation is inappropriate. Domestic cookers use "cheaper" glass woven insulation in "Hot zones", which mechanically is OK for the static nature of domestic cookers! (The glass fibre manufacture for woven glass materials came before the use of glass fibres in fibre-optic telephone cables. Another product line in my CV...).
As a "solid" product, We used it in High Voltage circuit breakers to direct gas flow to Quench electric arcs in circuit breakers. These parts could be machined from solid (for prototypes), but were sintered at hydraulic pressures in Hot molds by the PTFE component specialists. Due to the temperatrure of the arcs, (up to 5000deg. C.) the PTFE ablated into Fluorine/Fluorides which combined with the Sulphur-hexafluoride gas used in the circuit breakers. (After 20 power breaks the circuit breaker was serviced, as these nozzles were so blasted with more power-breaks they would be at risk of causing the cicuit breaker to fail to quench an arc. - Many tests proved their "safe" lifetime.). Part of the reason for using PTFE was its chemical composition and compatibilty with the arc-quenching ability of the SF6 gas. The use of PTFE for non-stick cook-wear and as a low-friction bearing or seal material, came after its initial development by NASA for spacecraft. PTFE seals have very low friction, poor durability, but very long life as the material doesn't degrade like elastomers. Fascinating stuff to work with!
K2

Interesting as the project was out of atmosphere as I recall. I can’t even come close to its name it was nearly 20 years ago . Am I really that old.
byron

 

[Bentwings]

I think you are on the right track . I think multi cylinder models I’ll start from any osition of the crank but max torque comes at 90 degrees perpendicular to rotation so piston area time psi would equal max torque available just as air cylinder if the rod were connected directly to he piston as rocking piston compressors you would deduct the section area f the rod but in most of these steamers push on the bottom of the piston including pin bosses so. Just use piston area both ways. With slidepiston valves you migh have to advin are of thes to be technically correct. That kinda why I’d like a particle clutch so I could stop the crank in any position and measure torque at that point in automotive bench racing we use displacement time some value of cylinder pressure detonation is not easily measured except by observation when you see a hole in a piston or the torque caved in aluminum Dodd actually shear from detonation. I’ve seen not quite broken ones you can see the angle of over stressed metal . There is a guy on inter net that has a dyno.
JohnnyQ I think is his site. He has a really cool steam turbine too I just found ha site last night there has been lots of requests to purchase his stuff too he is missing a great opportunity here. Anyway thanks for the input. I’m a nut for calculations but far from math major . I’m working on design of aluminum boiler using 1/4” wall aluminum tube. There are some high strength materials available but I need more in-depth analysis. My solid works station does have fluid dynamics but it’s been many years since I was into that . I just need to sit down and study a bit . The particle clutch could be a very accurate measurement of torque at any crank position . Addin numbers to a spread sheet could produce a chart . Last night I ran internal expansion due to hat in the aluminum . I don’t think it serious but something to consider . I have to go for my daily walk we got more snow and 45 mph winds so some shoveling is in order too . So later
Byron

I just read over what I had posted and I have o oplogizee. Ffor spelling errors that sometimes make reading confusing. I have a double vision issue hat makes typing extremely difficult. I’m not supposed to be in the shop at all and even reading micrometer is tough to do. So please cues some of this. Don’t be afraid to correct eye or ask for repost or clarification. . You won’t hurt my feelings.
im. New to steam so I’m learning about it. I’m going to jump in big for me shortly with purchase of a neat kit in my mind of 4 cyl. Piston slide vale mill engine. These were used n the textile mills that I’m familiar th. Many historical show cases of their. Progress.I worked for a company that more or less revolutionized cotton processing in America. I was really on the tail end of the company the owner ultimately passed away and. We were out of jobs. It was a real eye opener to see mill towns . It was like stepping into the past of 50 years ago. The company store and housing. Mmost everything in the little towns was owned by the companies. Deep South. And no I d not have southern accent. The Carolinas and other southern states. We’re said to have their own version of English. It was a little hard to get used to radically. Different culture being a northerner. The mills were very interesting but I like the history of the civil war. You had to be careful how you spoke of it . Anyway steam engines were huge part of the mills. Some still had remnants of the line shafts almost all had wood furs hghly polishe.the reason isbecause cotton processing is dusty. Many machine had fully automatic. Cleaning. There were even rovin floor duster robots. Anyway this little engine is starter of a new hobby for me. I just ordered a pair of small steam turbines . I sghould get then in I’d yan. Also have a smaldynamo generator ordered. I’ll operate on compressed air temprarily. I have a steam boiler sketched up lready. It will be. Electrically heated ss I can’t have propane or open flame in my home. California air makes ulraquiet air compressors so I’ll hv one tucked under my computer table.I gage one to my son for his auto shop that is so quiet you can’t hear I standing right nextbtomit. They are not the cheapest thes.harbor freight now has knock offs of em. . I just got a new lighted mmaagnifyng Sam light so maybe nytyping I’ll improve. I’m really excited out this hobby as it’s something I can do right here at home. I’m not suppoed to drive so getting around is hard too. I do ave in. Home octopus just like. The old daysthhat has Xeon a boon as I done have to trouble anyone to drag me around. Also have a bike I’m going to convert electric assist.that will give ne mobility to reach places valuable to. Me. Well, my kitty. Rants me to come to bed. Cats. Are really different than dogs. .
good night for now

byron

 

[Richard Hed]

Me. Well, my kitty. Rants me to come to bed. Cats. Are really different than dogs. .

Well, they certainly taste different!

 

[Zeb]

I found that even my little steam engine requires a lot of volume, so if your compressor runs ok continuous, you can add tanks if it runs out too fast.

@Richard Hed For dogs and especially cats, make sure the trichinosis gets cooked out. Steve Rinella knows.

 

[Bentwings]

I did a basic calculation of enginges displacement. It’s not very much in cam actually far below compressor output depends on operating pressure and speed. I’d rather not run at full speed. This little engine has an incredible number of small moving parts. It does have a fly wheel and optional additional one . I have two model steam turbines ordered but I won’t see them untill mid Jan. These run very fast and I’d guess take a bunch more volume of air or steam . I’m not sure how I’ll use them . I’m thinking of a display board of laminated aircraft plywood , clear casting epoxy covered for glassy smooth finish. Bowling alley like. I also have a dynamo generator and looked at small stepper motor to generator conversions. It looks pretty easy so far. I also ordered som aluminum to finish my boiler construction . I made sketches and my son and grand son said they would complete the machine work that is too fine for me to do. This new hobby has expanded much faster than I expected. I’m one that perfection and functionality are important qualities. Probably a carry over from sports and hot ridding . If it doesn’t work perfectly I can get frustrated and I’ll be relentless to fix it. Since I sold my big boat and Streetrod. I don’t have those major expenses so I can justify getting what I need to do the job . My wonderful sister and care giver is a perfectionist and obsessive organizer as well as accountant but this hobby , she is having a hard time with. She knows I’m an engineer and eat live and sleep it but she says I have no sense of budget. She says “you are not going to build back better Byron”. So we have our discussions . I guess it’s a part of the hobby as much as the finished product. LOL I talked to the boys and they are cutting up wood for the model shop “floor” . I’m rapidly using up space on it. I hope I estimated enough expansion room. It’s a lot of work doing the clear casting epoxy I’m going to order some spring belt material and flat belt material today . The steam turbines run at extreme rpms so I payed out a compound planetary gear box. I’ll have to try and get back on the cad program and lay out some models. There is a local 3D printer shop that does bout plastic and metal printing so I can get parts made pretty quickly if needed $$$ being the limiting factor . I have a couple model plastic planetary gear models but I think they are too small for this even if made into metal . The shop says parts are a lot more precision than they used to be so I may just give it a try. I saw a gear box a guy made on the internet that destroyed itself . So I’ll continue. I did look at the dyno presented. It’s pretty cool and well done.
Byron

 

[74Sprint]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth. I worked for the railroad for 8 years as an electrician and most of our locomotives had dynamic braking. This braking turned the motors into generators and this power was sent to the resistor grids. This setup also allowed us to use the grids as a load to measure the horse power the diesel was making. On a locomotive the throttle has 8 positions and each one sets the RPM of the diesel regardless of load, at least it tries. So the way it works is from throttle 1 to 8 the system first sets the engine RPM and then brings in the excitation to the generators. The excitation increases until the governor can't give the engine anymore throttle and the RPM begins to decrease. At this point the excitation is decreased to maintain RPM. So I could measure the Hp at each throttle position.

So borrowing from this I have started collecting parts such as an externally regulated car alternator and some heating elements from an old electric stove. If I measure the voltage and current going to the heater elements then I can measure the power in watts. Add in the RPM and I can now calculate the Hp. To calibrate and to know how much Hp I'm loosing to just spinning the alternator I'm going to use an AC electric motor with a dimmer switch and measure the motor's load. I have seen videos of this setup being used with small R/C engines. The guy doing this had both manual control and computer control of both the throttle and excitation. Pretty neat setup, I'll try and find the videos again.

Ray

 

[Bentwings]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth. I worked for the railroad for 8 years as an electrician and most of our locomotives had dynamic braking. This braking turned the motors into generators and this power was sent to the resistor grids. This setup also allowed us to use the grids as a load to measure the horse power the diesel was making. On a locomotive the throttle has 8 positions and each one sets the RPM of the diesel regardless of load, at least it tries. So the way it works is from throttle 1 to 8 the system first sets the engine RPM and then brings in the excitation to the generators. The excitation increases until the governor can't give the engine anymore throttle and the RPM begins to decrease. At this point the excitation is decreased to maintain RPM. So I could measure the Hp at each throttle position.

So borrowing from this I have started collecting parts such as an externally regulated car alternator and some heating elements from an old electric stove. If I measure the voltage and current going to the heater elements then I can measure the power in watts. Add in the RPM and I can now calculate the Hp. To calibrate and to know how much Hp I'm loosing to just spinning the alternator I'm going to use an AC electric motor with a dimmer switch and measure the motor's load. I have seen videos of this setup being used with small R/C engines. The guy doing this had both manual control and computer control of both the throttle and excitation. Pretty neat setup, I'll try and find the videos again.

Ray

That’s very interesting. Some of the bike pedal assistance electric use dynamic braking to recharge batteries. It’s not tray very efficient as you need to be coasting or pedaling to make it work so you are inputting your physical effort into it but it does work . I too am considering using the generator output to ultimately measure power or torque. There is not a lot of good information on just how much torque or power these little engines make. Modern electronics are now making this possible. I’m going in the direction or modified stepper motors as they come in all sizes and are not real expensive. I think s creative excell programming and manual data input could make some interesting profiles. Also ordered a stepper motor to convert but it may be too big the steam engine might not have enough torque the turbines wit massive gear reductions shoul work ok . I’ll have to make some kind of report I think. I don’t have YouTube site yet I suppose I’ll have to do that too . I’ve been scammed so many times on social media that I’ve totally abandoned it other than look at an occasional picture.
Byron

Byron,
I reckon if you want to spare the dollars and not buy the proper stuff (50W Steam oil) then get some 50W oil for a diesel engine. It contains a lot of detergent (compared to Petrol engine oils). Engine oils are MUCH more complex than "simple" oils (like steam oil) because they have to counteract all the problems (chemical, mechanical, and thermal) excountered in the engine. Steam Oil gear oil, etc. is much simpler.
The engine oils have relatively huge amounts of viscosity improvers, acid neutralisers, water emulsifiers, anti-sludge chemicals, etc.. that work effectively on steam and lots of organic nasty gases at high temperatures encountered with the chambers in an infernal combustion engine, so "easily" cope with steam engines. Diesel engine oils more so than petrol engine oils. (The hot bits in diesel engines can be hotter than the hot bits of regular gasoline engines anyway). The reason for "high viscosity" instead of the car engines' multi-grade, is that steam oils do not need to be "thin" at -30deg.C - you always pre-warm steam engines with the steam to "fairly hot" before trying to use them to do any work, and to prevent hydraulic lock from condensate! So don't get multi-grade oil for your steam engines. The lighter (small number W's) in the blend of a multi-grade oil will flash-off at steam temperatures and not do a lot of work, so waste your dollars!
But one rider... If you superheat your steam (Highly reccomended!) then you do need proper SUPER-HEAT steam oil. - NOT I.C. Engine oil.
Hope this helps?
K2

the oil debate continues just as automotive oil. Unless you are flooding the poor engine it’s probably hard to gather enough oil to have rested. A sort of related thing came up today as we were discussing engines at lunch . Looking at the steam engine I’m about ready to jump on the question of displacement came up. It’s easy enough to make some estimates. Then someone polped a finger at my choice and asked if the piston slide valve contributes to output torque. After all it looks like a piston and connecting rod and is connected to the crankshaft. Looks like a good question. This engine is so small that the piston slide valve tiny . I don’t think it contributes much if any even on big engines . As far as oil goes the lengthy paper I read said castor oil is ok but the interesting part was the discussion about it being a good cutting oil in the shop. I passed that on to my son and he said he would give it a try. I also have an in home test I’m watching now castor oil and canola oils have been used in hair treatments for a long time. I don’t have to worry about that as most of mine is long gone. It’s alo supposed to be superior for preventing ticks snd other bugs. Our tick season is still many months away . Since I have two steam turbines ordered I’ll try it on them . Not many moving parts except very high speed bearings. Turbine oils are usually pretty thin so we will see what happens I may have some parts 3D metal printed that I could test on too.
Byron

 

[Zeb]

So the way it works is from throttle 1 to 8 the system first sets the engine RPM and then brings in the excitation to the generators. The excitation increases until the governor can't give the engine anymore throttle and the RPM begins to decrease. At this point the excitation is decreased to maintain RPM. So I could measure the Hp at each throttle position.

@74Sprint After getting slightly bored of airplanes, I've taken on being a hobby level foamer. I always wondered how the scheduling was setup. A model diesel electric would be a fun build.

 

[Bentwings]

@74Sprint After getting slightly bored of airplanes, I've taken on being a hobby level foamer. I always wondered how the scheduling
was setup. A model diesel electric would be a fun build.

My you are up early today its8:50 am here

that’s kinda how I thought electric synod work. There have been many model diesels built ther were a few model airplane diesels too . These ran on special model diesel fuel none were turbo charged however Devi’s diesel is the nam that just piped into my head.. I know nearly nothing about them . I think you could build a two or four stroke model diesel. You might have to use glow ignition the model diesels had a screw on the top that replaced the spark or glow plug this controlled a device that varied the compression ratio. Like a piston within a piston . It was used in conjunction with conventional model carb . That’s about all I know of them . The engine would be one thing to build I’ve given some thought to compounded turbocharging but getting noose at model size is tough. Liken it to WW2 high altitude fighters. Getting performance in thin air you might have to build a small air compressor to provide boost pressure . Maybe use a couple engine cylinders devoted to compressing air for the rest I’ve the engine maybe even use a small boiler. I don’t know

the electrics is available from your knowledge base you should be able to develope something small stepper motors can provide a lot of electric power in a smal package. I’m going to ad this to my upcoming steamer engine to tun lights and other things. There are small inverters that can give ac power if needed too . You may be relegated to two power units just like full scale . Some of the Er guys might be of help .

byron

 

[74Sprint]

A little more on the GM-EMD diesel electric locomotives. The diesel engines come in 2 versions for the 2 strokes. They either have roots blowers or turbos. Each is ran off the camshafts except, the turbos use a over-running clutch that usually disengages @ 6th throttle and allows the turbo to free spin using just exhaust pressure. The roots blower ones don't have a boost gauge but the turbo ones do and is usually around 18 psi. Also there are 3 generators, a 74 volt generator that supplies DC power for control and supplies the D14 generator excitation. The D14 supplies the AR10 excitation which is the main traction alternator that can supply 7,200 amps at 1,000 volts or 7.2 mega-watts of power (645E engine). We use a special formula to calculate Hp that takes into account the parasitic losses of mechanical and electrical accessories. So it's rated at 3,000 Hp at 918 RPM.

The neat thing about these GM-EMD diesels is that they use a welded sheet metal block and not a cast one. The deck of the block is also sheet metal with holes cut into it to allow the power assemblies to drop down into the block and the power assemblies are held down with crab legs and a nut. A very simple but also very reliable engine, not like the 4 stroke ALCO diesel engines. Sometime in the future I would like to make a scale locomotive of a SD40-2 using a scale 645E 16 cylinder engine using glow ignition. As for excitation there are a lot of ways to do that, that is not complicated.

Ray

 

[Bentwings]

A little more on the GM-EMD diesel electric locomotives. The diesel engines come in 2 versions for the 2 strokes. They either have roots blowers or turbos. Each is ran off the camshafts except, the turbos use a over-running clutch that usually disengages @ 6th throttle and allows the turbo to free spin using just exhaust pressure. The roots blower ones don't have a boost gauge but the turbo ones do and is usually around 18 psi. Also there are 3 generators, a 74 volt generator that supplies DC power for control and supplies the D14 generator excitation. The D14 supplies the AR10 excitation which is the main traction alternator that can supply 7,200 amps at 1,000 volts or 7.2 mega-watts of power (645E engine). We use a special formula to calculate Hp that takes into account the parasitic losses of mechanical and electrical accessories. So it's rated at 3,000 Hp at 918 RPM.

The neat thing about these GM-EMD diesels is that they use a welded sheet metal block and not a cast one. The deck of the block is also sheet metal with holes cut into it to allow the power assemblies to drop down into the block and the power assemblies are held down with crab legs and a nut. A very simple but also very reliable engine, not like the 4 stroke ALCO diesel engines. Sometime in the future I would like to make a scale locomotive of a SD40-2 using a scale 645E 16 cylinder engine using glow ignition. As for excitation there are a lot of ways to do that, that is not complicated.

Ray

It’s like going back to school I learned something today.LOL I friend and neighbor at the marina had a very big yacht it had Detroit diesel with 8-71 roots blowers fed by turbo chargers it must have been a pretty old boat but well preserved . I forgot to ask about boost on those big engines. We had race versions of 8-71 blower or supercharger. 25 psi boost was not unusual on the alcohol motors actually very reliable if you took care of them we ran a lot of over drive on the blower knowing that 8000 blower rpm was the end of efficiency. We traded that for the instant huge boost right off the line. I did work as we had some pretty good success on the 1/8 mile races. Now they get into the 65 psi+ but it’s hard on parts. I just got my castor oil a few minutes ago . I’ll be able to test it side by side with canola oil. Once I get these test done I’ll post them . Also got the digital tachometer just like the farm guy used in his testing . I’m going to order an ultra quiet air compressor shortly as soon as I find the quick disconnects I want . Standard shop ones are just too big and clunky for model use. Also hot the air line lubrivator and moisture trap. My coffee pot is on the way out so I’m thinking I could make a coil of 1/4” copper tubing an submerge it in the pot then run the compressor air to it thus having preheated air for the mini shop . Compressed air makes air tools run icy cold in the winter so this is just creature comfort. At this time I have a kitchen cutting board of hope coming that I’ll clamp to my work table then I can add my lighted magnifying glass so I can see better . It’s a lot of Mickey Mouse stuff when you are starting from scratch . It’s a nice sunny day in the 40’s today a little breezy but not bad for dec in Minnesota. It ain’t global warming so I’m staying out of politics here best I can .LOL

Byron