1" Bore x 1" Stroke Vertical i.c. Engine

[Tim Wescott]

"Meehanite" is a trademark; if a foundry sells it, that means they're licensed to do so (and they're audited for quality by the Meehanite company). And apparently there's more than one kind of Meehanite -- gray, gray flake, and nodular.

From my studies, making it right involves a little bit of everything: getting the right mix, getting the casting process right, & possibly heat treating (certainly heat treating in the case of nodular cast).

I bet Machinery's Handbook lists the grades -- if I were good, I'd go look myself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meehanite

 

[Steamchick]

I am fairly sure (as memory isn't 100% reliable) that H & G inoculated the iron before pouring. But in a different foundry I saw this used for the production of Spheroidal graphite iron. Perhaps this is just unlicensed Mehanite? Or the copy write / patent has expired?
K2

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Fine grain grey cast iron is suitable for rings. Mehanite is suitable for rings.

 

[Tim Wescott]

@Steamchick : I got the impression from the Wikipedia article that Meehanite is a trade name that your foundry can apply if you're licensed. So you could make exactly the same thing, but you couldn't say so. It gets complicated, but probably even "just like Meehanite" would be an infringement, where a data sheet that exactly matches one of the flavors of Meehanite wouldn't.

 

[Rdean33422]

Brian I want to thank you for including the make and model carburetor that you used on this build. I had built a similar size engine and was having problems with the carbs I had been using. The Traxxas 4033 has solved all my problems as it is very easy to adjust and very predictable.

I have added a video to my original thread in the "Finished Projects" section of the engine running now.

Thank you
Ray

 

[awake]

I am fairly sure (as memory isn't 100% reliable) that H & G inoculated the iron before pouring. But in a different foundry I saw this used for the production of Spheroidal graphite iron. Perhaps this is just unlicensed Mehanite? Or the copy write / patent has expired?
K2

l am completely out of my depth on this, so this comment may be totally useless ... but hey, that has never stopped me before!

A YouTuber named LuckyGen routinely does cast iron; he talks about having to add ferrosilicone to the melt to get the desired results (e.g., not chilled). So maybe that is the sort of innoculation involved?

 

[Steamchick]

Andy, I am even less knowledgeable than you! But enjoying learning from the group discussion. I am not about to cast iron, but now know I need fine-grained cast iron, not just "any old scrap" from my bin before attempting to make rings. I here a 3/4 cc diesel that needs a new cylinder & piston (no rings). The last cast iron piston I made had good compression, but not for long! Then I found the cylinder cracked...
Thanks, K2

 

[Brian Rupnow]

So, here we are. Two rings from Debolt. What did they cost?-Well, by the time I bought them, paid for the shipping, paid the tax, and paid the difference between USA and Canadian dollar, I spent $50.00. I'm not going to say that it's anyone's "fault". I used to be able to get a complete set of rings for a V8 car for that money. They don't look different in any way from the rings I've been making at home in the last couple of weeks. If anybody is shaking their head about the toolpost grinder and heat treat furnace I've just bought, think about that for a minute. There is probably less than 50 cents worth of material in either ring. I hope to never ever have to buy rings again. I hope these rings work okay, anything else I have ever bought from Debolt worked just fine. I'm going to make a new piston for this engine to put the Debolt rings on, and Jeez, I hope they work okay.----Brian

 

[Johan Maritz]

I'm following Brian, I'm nearing the dreaded ring making process, and it seems daunting. Must admit i learned a lot already.

 

[dsage]

If I'm not mistaken you ran your home made rings - possibly not round - for some period of time driven by an electric motor. It's possible that now your cylinder is not round so your results with the (Presumably perfect) new rings may be questionable. Honing the cylinder will not make it round and will remove some material so it won't be 1" diameter any more either.
I would suggest you don't "run in" those rings in an attempt to gain compression. If everything is proper you should have good compression right off the bat. If not put those expensive rings aside for a new venture.
You have experience with full sized engines. How many of those have you had to "run in" to get them to run??
I hope you are successful. You've been through heck with this experiment.
Just saying.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Alright---Here we go again!!! This is a brand new cast iron piston, hot off the lathe. The two rings on it are the two I bought from Debolt. The piston is 0.998" diameter and is a good sliding fit into the cylinder. Both rings were placed squarely into the cylinder and the ring gap is 0.004". I made a mask 0.9" diameter to fit inside the compressed rings and 0.950" outer diameter to set squarely into a ring in the cylinder. One ring showed no visible light between the outside diameter of the ring and the piston wall. With the other ring I found it very hard to tell. The only thing I did to the rings was use a points file to break the sharp inner corner where the split was, so it wouldn't scratch the piston when I installed the rings. Both rings measured "about" 1/16" thick. My 1/16" parting off tool is 0.062" wide, but for some strange reason it cuts about .055" wide on a direct plunge cut into cast iron. I kept taking 0.055" deep plunge cuts and kept trying to fit the ring into the groove in the piston. By the time I had it wide enough to let the ring set into the groove all the way to the bottom of the groove, I had cut each ring groove "about" 0.065" wide. I coated both rings and piston with 30 weight motor oil and had no problems getting the rings onto the piston---although I turn rather blue from holding my breath while I do it. I have a "jig" with a 1" diameter reamed hole in it and a 15 degree tapered lead into it.--The piston with rings on it slides quite nicely into the jig, thanks to the generous lead in taper which compresses the rings for me. If the piston fits into me jig okay, then it is going to fit into my cylinder okay.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

dsage--Interesting that you should ask that about full size engines. I never had to "run in" any of my full size V8 engines, but they did crank hard the first time they were started. ---However----I had an uncle who lived in Deep River, Ontario. He knew I was a car nut, so when I was about 15 he took me over to meet a friend of his who raced stock cars at a local track. This friend had just finished a rebuild on the V8 engine in his stock car, it was race night, and the engine was so stiff it wouldn't crank over with the starter. He got a rope, tied it to the front bumper of the stock car and to the back of another stock car guys truck. He told the other guy "Keep it in high gear with the clutch in until I get up to about 40 miles an hour out on the black top, and then let the clutch out---we'll get his thing broke loose for tonight's race!!" Of course I asked to go along for the ride, and the stock car guy seen that I was just loving this, so he let me ride with him. At 40 miles an hour the guy in the stock car let out the clutch. The engine was so tight that the rear tires both screeched on the pavement, but then the engine broke loose and started and all Hell broke loose!! I swear to God, there was white smoke, black smoke, grass snakes and baby apes coming out of that stock car engine. It ran, and they made the race that night. I was so excited that I almost peed my pants!!!

 

[jack620]

This friend had just finished a rebuild on the V8 engine in his stock car, it was race night, and the engine was so stiff it wouldn't crank over with the starter.

This is how the F1 mechanics solve that problem:

"Due to the very tight bearing and piston-to-bore clearances on an F1 engine, the engine cannot be started from cold and must be brought up to the recommended start up temperature in order to avoid damage to the moving parts. The recommended start up temperature for the engines varies according the brand but is around 70-80 degree Celsius. The engine is warmed using a remote electric pump to circulate hot coolant through the coolant passages prior to start up. The pump is a purposely built unit mounted on a trolley for ease of use in the pit garage, and connects to the engine via plug in hose connections.

Hot coolant is used to warm the engine itself, but the engine oil also needs to be heated to operating temperature, and this is done outside the engine. The oil is warmed using a bespoke remote warning device that ensures the oil is warmed up evenly to the required operating temperature."

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Jack--It's a great story, but it was 50 years ago.--A bit of interesting fact though--I worked one winter in Kapuskasing in northern Ontario. The company was a huge paper mill, with a very large parking lot for employees. Each parking spot had an electrical outlet so people could plug in their automobile engine heaters to keep the engines from freezing solid during an 8 hour shift. The big diesel trucks that distributed the companies newsprint had quick disconnect coupling on the radiator hoses, and if they were left overnight the quick disconnect hoses would be connected to a heated supply of water and anti-freeze that was heated inside the factory and circulated thru the truck engines so they wouldn't freeze solid.

 

[olympic]

Ah, northern Ontario!

Years ago I stayed in a motel in Dryden and plugged my van into one of their outlets. Come morning and -39 degrees (choose either temperature scale) I found that the outlet wasn't working when my 350 cu. in. V8 groaned once--and actually started.

Couldn't have been very good for the engine, though....

 

[Tim1974]

Ok boys rings every ring has to bed or run in it’s a fact of life so we can talk all day or make rings it’s easy and really not a lot of time just have fun

 

[johwen]

How we bedded in rings in the early days of motoring on new cars was simple. We drove the cars at full throttle fully loaded in top gear for twenty yards backed off let it slow and the repeated 4 or 5 times. we had no oil burners or cars lacking power This loaded the ring against the bore with full pressure behind the rings.
John S. Auto engineer.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Today I removed the original piston with a Viton ring, and replaced it with the new piston which has two cast iron rings on it from Debolt. I got really lucky---I thought I was going to have to split the crankcase halves to replace the piston but I didn't have to. With the cylinder removed, there was just enough access to reach up inside the piston and loosen the set screw which held the wrist pin in place. Then it was a simple matter to drift out the wrist pin and put the new piston back in it's place. Getting the rings compressed enough to let the piston slide up into the cylinder wasn't really that bad--mostly fingernail work holding the rings into the grooves deep enough for the piston to slide in. There is one bolt head that is actually inside the combustion chamber ---it's one of the socket head capscrews which holds the rocker arm tower in place on the cylinder head. While I had the cylinder head off I took that bolt out, mixed up a batch of J.B.Weld and coated the shcs with it, then reinserted the shcs. I did this so that as the bolt was tightened into the thread in the cylinder head, the J.B.Weld would squeeze out of the threads and fill the area between the head of the bolt and the counterbore just to make absolutely certain that no compression was leaking out there. I'll wait 24 hours now and then hopefully run the engine tomorrow. While I had the cylinder off the engine I used a 3 stone brake hone to cross-hatch the bore. This will help retain a little oil for ring lubrication and help the new rings to "bed in" . To be honest, I can turn the engine over easily by hand right now and I'm not feeling any compression, but if I can get the engine to run tomorrow it should develop a lot more compression as the rings "bed in".

 

[dsage]

Fingers crossed.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

I could feel a hint of compression when turning the engine over by hand, but it's a new engine and still a bit stiff, so I didn't know whether I was really feeling some compression or just hopefully imagining it.---So---I pulled out the sparkplug and gave it a couple of squirts of #30 motor oil down the sparkplug hole, then reinstalled the sparkplug. It immediately had a lot of compression. I certainly hope that I can get the engine to fire and run tomorrow. I have the feeling that if it fires and runs that the new rings will "bed in" and seal properly.