Horizontal Mill Engine From Kit

[zeeprogrammer]

Poop. As in Dad' Poop.

As I said previously...time for the Spindex. Well maybe not.

Seemed overly hard to insert the collet.
Then, when I got the thing in and the part mounted, I gave the arm a rap to tighten.
Wrong hammer. Nice chunk of covering came off. :-\ No problem really. But it was brand new. Sniff. Time for the rubber mallet.

No matter what I did...I couldn't tighten it enough. Drawing said .187 +0.000/- 0.002. I came in at .185. Could not tighten it.

Got out my earlier crankshaft...it measured .187. Again...really difficult to get the collet in...and when I did...the crankshaft wouldn't fit. Too tight! Finally got it. Tightened down. Several raps with rubber mallet...finally tight. Now wondering if it's tight enough. 0.002 makes a big difference I guess. But then it shouldn't be dimensioned as -0.002!

Not happy. Is the Spindex/collet thing any good? Do I have to remake the part...again?

Rats. This is what I get for thinking all day long of coming home and getting busy to make something. Need to lower my expectations and be glad I can touch my machines. I'm going to go eat.

:rant:

Oh...I said something earlier about avoiding rants. Well...too bad.

[EDIT: Sure. Of course I tried again. Turns out the .187 part isn't all that tight either. So just how do you do this? How much/hard does one rap? How do I get the part tight enough so it would move when I go to mill it? I really don't want to get to Grandpa Poop level. Messy.]

 

[mklotz]

I hesitate to risk insulting your intelligence but have you ensured that the slot in the collet is aligned with the anti-rotation pin in the Spindex sleeve?

 

[zeeprogrammer]

I hesitate to risk insulting your intelligence but have you ensured that the slot in the collet is aligned with the anti-rotation pin in the Spindex sleeve?

You haven't got what it takes to insult my intelligence Marv.
You're not low enough. :big:

Fair question...I've worked in customer service before.

But yes...I'm sure. Otherwise the collet sticks out pretty far. It's actually the bit that has made it difficult to get the collet in.

I see that the spindle(?) (the thing that screws over the collet) can only screw on up to a point. If the length of the collet plus spindle is longer than the tube...then no tightening will be had. Could the collets I bought not be the right ones for this Spindex? I bought both from Grizzly.

If true, I have two remedies...contact LMS and see what they say, modify (shorten) something to fix it, or 3, purchase another something.

Thanks Marv.

 

[GailInNM]

On my ancient spindex, the friction between the draw tube and the body made it difficult to get the collet tight enough. I polished it a bit and that helped. I put a washer on the draw tube made out of 0.010 PTFE (Teflon) and it helped a lot. I have thought about making a roller thrust bearing to go in place there. You might need a thick washer there to effectively shorten the drawtube. Be sure to put a little lube on that interface.
Gail in NM

 

[mklotz]

Trust me. If I really wanted to insult your intelligence, I could do it. Ask John Stevenson.

But I'm not out to do that. When I was starting out I did a lot of really dumb things that I don't enjoy recalling - except to help someone else. Not knowing about the anti-rotation pin was one of them.

It's not unheard of to get a bum collet. Try some of your other collets and see if they operate properly. That will help localize the problem - collet or spindle.

It may also be worthwhile cleaning the threads on both the collet(s) and the tube. I normally use a (handheld) brass wire brush rather aggressively though an ordinary steel wire brush is probably ok. Inspect the threads for burrs, lodged swarf and/or mechanical damage. If you can find one of your collets that works, note the thread engagement depth and see if the offending collet(s) fall short of that.

On my mill the pin was a bit too long. With the tube out of the spindle, test that your collets can freely seat fully in the nose taper.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

:wall:

Pardon me while I smack my forehead.
Sorry to have wasted your time Marv and Gail.

As I said..."it's as if the length of the spindle and the collet is too long for the tube".

Spindle has an arm at the end. Move the arm in. Duh.

I'll just go crawl over here for a while...curl up...suck my thumb...question yet again why you all bother to read me.

Thanks...and sorry.

But happy guy again!

Marv, you posted while I was writing. Thanks for the additional tips. I'll check it out.
Oh...and I do trust you Marv.

 

[Krown Kustoms]

Dont worry Zee, we all do it.
Hey at least you have a spindex to have trouble with.
I am pricing them now, I have been looking at CDCO, the prices seem to be too low for any quality but time will tell, I am ordering a few things to find out.
-B-

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Dont worry Zee, we all do it.

Maybe. But I take it one step further and involve everyone in my moments of greatness. "Look! Look everyone! Look what I did!". :big:

That spindex looks just like mine but mine says PF70. I have no idea what that means. Mine was $43 I think I've seen it for $39. Shop...then get.

Thanks -B-

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thinking about deleting my boo-boo post and let everyone wonder what you all are talking about. :big:

Hm. How to use an indexer? I dunno. :shrug: Let's see...36 divisions on the wheel is 10 degree per. I need 0, 90, 180, and 270. Goodie. I don’t have to figure out how to use the housing's 10 holes for 1 degree increments. (At least for this job.)

Mounted the spindex and squared it. I'm assuming 3 things here...

One: The front of the base is square to the spindle.
Two: The bottom of the base is square to the spindle.
Three: I haven't blown through today's allotment of luck.

(Well four...there aren't any more assumptions.)

Flatten top, turn 180, and flatten again.
Measure between flats.
Subtract desired length and divide that by two.
That’s the distance to move the mill by.
Periodically, cut a little, rotate by 180, cut a little, rotate by 180, move cutter.

Of course the caliper doesn’t fit. Periodically move by 90 so measurement can be made.

Do the same for the other two opposing sides.

Well! I think I like this spindex (as predicted by several of you).

Next step is to slot it with a slitting saw.
I think I've used today's allotment of luck and seeing how it's always the last operation that does me in...I think I'll wait.

 

[kvom]

While getting the Spindex to work might be a worthwhile project in itself, milling that part with a square collet block held in the vise woule have been a lot simpler.

 

[vlmarshall]

Quiet, you! ;D

 

[Krown Kustoms]

Very nice, I think I need one now for sure.
-B-

 

[mklotz]

Spindle has an arm at the end. Move the arm in. Duh.

I'm lost. I don't understand what you were doing wrong. Please explain. Mine doesn't have anything I would term an "arm" so the quote above makes no sense to me.

Kvom is right. This job could have been done more simply with a collet block. However, doing it with the Spindex gives you a chance to learn how to operate the Spindex as well as proof the mods you made to it. Give Zee a break here. However, Zee, you're really really going to have to buy some collet blocks. They're handier than a shirt pocket.

It's probably too late now but while you had the Spindex set up on the mill, you should have done a test piece to prove that you understand the vernier angle setting. A good exercise would be to cut a pentagonal tenon on the end of a piece of scrap. The required angle sequence (0, 72, 144, 216, 288) is straightforward and the result is easily verified with the Mk1 eyeball.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Hi kvom. Thanks. Yeah I thought (hoped I knew) that there would be better methods. But I'm trying to follow the instruction manual that came with the kit for two reasons. I suspect the manuals are designed to help teach various methods and/or equipment. (That, or a way to get you to buy more equipment. :big So I want to learn that equipment. And two..for the other poor souls like myself who buy this kit and think/hope they can do it. That's why I don't mind anyone suggesting better methods...adds to the learning.

[EDIT: Just saw your post kvom using the collet block. I can see why they would be very handy.]

Vernon...sigh. :big: (A little inside joke there.)

Marv. Thanks. Here's a link to Bogstandard's thread on modding the spindex. It has a picture of the disassembled unit. Spindle on the bottom with the arm attached to the left.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2681.0

So at the expense of reminding everyone of my incredible 'duh' moment... ;D, the arm needed to be adjusted 'in' to effectively shorten it.

Collet blocks. I'm sure they're in my future. ;D [EDIT: See previous edit. ;D]

It's not too late. Not sure I'll do it now though. (Should really...it would be appropriate for this thread. But... Ah, I'll think on it. I'm sure there will be opportunity.)

 

[mklotz]

First some terminology...

That black tube in Bogs' picture is called a drawtube because it draws the collet into the taper at the front of the spindle (the cylindrical bit that rotates in the body of the unit - above the drawtube in the picture). The "arm" attached to the drawtube I would term the 'drawtube crank' although others may have a more accepted name for it.

So, you didn't realize that you had to turn the drawtube crank to rotate the drawtube to pull in the collet and cause it to close against the spindle taper? Is that about right?

Did you remember to lock the spindle before making your cuts? Remember what I said about remembering to do that?

Have you tried using the vernier yet? You need to. It's operation is less obvious than the drawtube. Try it before using it in anger.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

So, you didn't realize that you had to turn the drawtube crank to rotate the drawtube to pull in the collet and cause it to close against the spindle taper? Is that about right?

Did you remember to lock the spindle before making your cuts? Remember what I said about remembering to do that?

I guess you're right Marv (see previous posts about intelligence) :big:

I did realize that the drawtube had to be rotated to pull in the collet. So no...you're not right at all. The crank was not in the right place. Too far out...effectively making the drawtube too long. The length of collet plus drawtube was longer than the body so there was nothing the crank could 'draw' against. Unit came that way. I had to move the crank in closer and shorten the overall length.

Yep. I remembered to lock the spindle. No fair asking me to remember you remembering me. ;D Speaking of remembering...remember what I said about jumping to conclusions? ;D

For other people wanting to use a spindex...do not use the numbered disk (sorry...I don't have the nomenclature) to rotate. Use the crank or grab the tube. If the nut holding the disk is not tight enough, you risk rotating the numbered disk and not the tube...and then you're off...and ranting.

And luckily...no one has to ask how I know that. I thought it all on my little own. :big:

Thanks Marv. I do like learning the correct nomenclature and jargon.

[EDIT: The remember remembering was intentional. :big:]

 

[zeeprogrammer]

I can only hope I learned tonight.

Pretty much nothing went right.
Ran the slitting saw too fast.
Squirted oil...even coolant...didn't see the caliper back there.
Caliper is no longer happy.
Still haven't gotten the mill head right...likes to drop on me.
Slot is too big.
Slot is at an angle.

On the plus side...the width of the slot is the same throughout.

Most of what happened I can understand and know what I did wrong. (Another plus!)

But I don't know why the slot ended up an angle. I would think it would take a downward (or upward) force on one end. Could too deep a saw cut cause it?

Could the spindex not be accurate? Do these things typically need some modification or calibration? In other words to get perfectly vertical (or horizontal for that matter), the pin is not at the housing 0 but somewhere between 1 and 9 (inclusive)?

I make the angle to be about 1.5 degree over 0.69" (an error of about .018).

No pic. This part will never see the light of day.

I can have a drink now. (A plus.)
T is coming home tonight. (A plus.)

Starting to look for any plus I can...

I'm handsome...wait...no I'm not...rats...a minus. I'll stop now.

It's a do over. ;D I'm good at that. (A plus.)

 

[vlmarshall]

Sounds like you had a day full of learning, Congrats! :bow:
You've accomplished a lot more than I have today.

 

[Krown Kustoms]

Zee, have you checked your mill head to see if it is square from front to back,
It sounds like the saw blade is going through as if the top of the lead edge is cutting and the bottom of the trail edge or vise versa.
That might also contribute to an angle cut.

I have a grizzly mini mill and always have trouble with the head wandering on me, I have made a few mods, I have seen most of them allready posted here.
I converted it to CNC and sometimes I dont see the wander till too late.

Im not sure if I would attempt the smoke box door Vernon cut on his build until I do a few more mods.

-B-

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Vernon...thanks. Yeah...there's a plus or two in there.

-B-..I'll check the Y again. I had trammed the mill a few weeks ago and checked the Y. I hadn't used it much since then. 1.5 degree would seem like a lot of movement. On the other hand, the first cut was kinda hard and maybe the head moved or tilted somehow rather than the part. I did lock the Z every time. I got the same angle top and bottom so whatever happened had stayed that way throughout the operations. I can't do anything about the part...but I'll go over the mill and do some testing.

Thanks for the suggestion. It's worthwhile for me to check.

At least my boo-boos seem to be new ones rather than repeats. Maybe I'm getting better. (Yep...always looking for a plus. :big