Horizontal Mill Engine From Kit

[RobWilson]

Very nice work Zee :bow: :bow: :bow: great job


Regards Rob

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Phil, black85vette, Artie, CC, Arnold and Rob. Your comments are very much appreciated.

It's your support that helps me get through the tough times. One of which I'm experiencing right now. But I won't sully this post with my rant....no...I'll use another post. That way, if necessary, a moderator can delete it without removing my thanks to you all.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

:rant:

Dad blasted, &%^$m stinking, (&*^, piece of (*&^, rotten (*&^, no good, )(&*^, crummy, (*&^, something or other...

Well...it didn't start out that way...it started out as...wow...cool...going good...oh man....neat...unbelievable...

But it ended up as...Dad blasted, stinking, piece of, rotten no good....

Well you get the picture. You've all been there. (I'll be here again.)

Anyway...I knew it was wrong...I did!...but I followed the instructions...

1) Mill a piece of rectangular aluminum stock to 5/8 width. Eh...a little shy. I okay.
2) Put in the 4-jaw.
3) Center it.
4) Face it to clean.
5) Turn end down to 0.19. Spot on!
6) Chamfer end and round it.

This is where the 'wow' was. Pretty happy with the rounded end.
Here come the instructions...

7) Flip and put in 3-jaw.
8) Face to size and turn the boss.
9) Drill.

Uh...the 3-jaw is going to hold onto a 0.19 diameter, 0.27 long piece of aluminum while I turn the 1x.375x.63 that's hanging off of it?

Okay.

But not okay...in no time at all the piece was cockeyed in the chuck and that fine looking rounded end was ruined.

Which brings me back to "Dad blasted, stinking, piece of, rotten no good...."

Yes I knew it was going to go awry. I have proved it was going to go awry. I've said it before...the instructions are lousy.

But I was sneaky...I bought extra material when I got the kit. I shall prevail. ;D

[EDIT: Couple of pics...]

And the carnage. Some of you may note a 50cent Australian coin. A member (sorry for forgetting who) asked for a $1 Australian. Sorry. My buddy at work is cheap. You'll also note it's upside down. Just giving back a little. ;D

 

[rake60]

:rant:

Dad blasted, &%^$m stinking, (&*^, piece of (*&^, rotten (*&^, no good, )(&*^, crummy, (*&^, something or other...

But other than that, how was your evening Zee? LOL

You are doing great.
Taking us along for the ride is priceless!
The world is full of experts who can tell any of us how to do it perfectly.
Did they do it perfectly the first time? Only they can answer that question.
If they say YES... Well I guess anything is possible...

Great thread!
Keep the updates coming.

Rick

 

[Philjoe5]

Zee,
Figuring out how to hold onto a part while you slice and dice away at it is a big part of doing an engine from castings. I'm an expert because I started my first one a week ago . Luckily : I broke a tap in the base casting so I have a lot of time to think about these things :'( :'( :'(. I do think I can rescue the project and have a tap extractor coming soon. It's all about solving problems as they come up right?

Cheers and continue success (despite the minor hurdles)
Phil

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Rick. Evening is going okay. Was talking to a friend...I'm thinking the next time I'm going to try making the part out of round stock. Always nice to have a plan.

Phil Thanks! Good luck with the tap extractor. I went on a hunt to see what 'Abyssus Abyssum Invocat' meant. During the hunt I came across the following which I found very meaningful for me at work...so thank you very much...

"While teaching, people learn."

I'm certainly not a teacher on this forum...but I do a lot of teaching in my work (software engineer)...and this explains another reason why I enjoy it.

 

[Philjoe5]

Zee,
I first encountered the expression "'Abyssus Abyssum Invocat'" in Stephen King’s book “Duma Key”. He used it in the context that "one misstep follows another" which is quite true especially in the machining world.

Cheers,
Phil

 

[cobra428]

I found a latin to english translater site and this is what it came up with.

Hell Hell Invocation

Tony

 

[Philjoe5]

Tony,
That's the origin of the quote from one of proverbs that means "one hell follows another". It seems quite appropriate to hacking at bits of metal. Now back to channel Zee, ;D

Cheers,
Phil

 

[mklotz]

Zee,

Is it possible that the instructions contain a typo and

"Flip and put in 3-jaw."

should have read:

Flip and put in 4-jaw.

I know I can't talk you out of your stubborn resolution to follow the instructions but this one is just too stupid to be anything but a blatant mistake. I'm certain nobody ever built an engine from those instructions.

The steam chest is a very visible part of this engine. I doubt that you're going to want all those indentations from the chuck jaws on it. Cut up a soda can or some sheet copper and make yourself some protective shims.

You're going to have to drill a long hole through the steam chest for the valve rod. This hole penetrates into the rounded tenon you're making. In order to drill that hole and not have it break through the rounded tenon end, you'll need to think about some way of accurately measuring drill depth on your tailstock. You'll want to drill it immediately after turning the tenon on the other end of the chest so that it's concentric with the packing nut.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

"Abyssus Abyssum Invocat" Some you are getting a little 'deep' with this. :big:

Not a typo Marv. Picture shows a 3-jaw holding onto that itty-bitty bit of metal. Not a blalant mistake...it's actually that stupid.

Obvious to you...I've been learning (something) so I knew too...but the next poor soul to get this kit may not have a clue.

I could have done it differently right off the bat...but from the next poor soul's point of view...he'd have to ask "Why is this newbie not following the instructions? What? He thinks he knows more than the guy who wrote them?". So to some extent I must 'show' the consequences (when safety is not compromised).

On a similar note...the instructions talked about sanding the sides after milling to size and before chucking for turning. Wouldn't it have been better to finish (sand) after the machining?

I had thought about flipping it in the 4-jaw. The only concern I had was getting the ends concentric for the drilling operation...although getting it centered at the rounded tenon is not critical.

But I think I'll use 3/4" or 1" round for my do-over.

Thanks for the tip on drilling.

As for the 'stubborn resolution to follow the instructions'...I protest! Please put a 'once' after the word 'instructions'. ;D
(I have a third kit waiting in the wings...I expect whatever resolution I have to be beaten into submission much modified by then ;D)

 

[mklotz]

You don't have to actually *make* the mistakes in order to point them out to those who come after you. Just say something like, "Using all the extensive experience gained so far, it was obvious that the method suggested in the instructions was total BS, so I ..."

Re "flipping it in the 4J"...

There are at least two approaches...

Put some small centers in the block when you are milling the ends. Easy to get them aligned if you use a vise stop to locate the block. Drill a center, flip stock and align against stop, drill a center. The center on the rounded tenon end gets machined away. The center on the other end gets a hole drilled through it. You'll need a pump center or equivalent to get the centers running true.

Square or rectangular stock can be centered in the 4J. Perhaps contrary to instinct, you want to test against the sides of the stock and not the edges. Adding a patented Klotz "flapper"

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=2302.msg19441#msg19441

to your centering DI can make this process a lot easier.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Okay okay. Gee whiz. ;D

"Using all the extensive modicum of experience gained so far, it was obvious well hidden that the method suggested in the instructions was total BS stinky, so I ... listened to the knowledgeable ones on the forum and did it anyway". ;D

As for the 4-jaw...their method was to put a 'stop block' in a tool holder and bring it up to the side of the stock and note the dial. Rotate the stock 180, note the dial, take half...and so on. I just used an empty tool holder. For whatever reason, it wasn't easy...I kept being off by the same amount no matter what I did. I also noticed that the stock might tilt or move when coming up against it. (I didn't think the edge would be the place to be...but I can see why one might.) I didn't like the method...

Which is why I was very happy to see your 'flapper' tip. That is great. Thanks! What's the fee for licensing?

 

[mklotz]

Which is why I was very happy to see your 'flapper' tip. That is great. Thanks! What's the fee for licensing?

For you? Free. Lord knows you've paid enough dues already. But you have to scratch "Klotz's flapper" on it with a scribe so that future archaeologists, digging it from a 21st century tell, will think it was a votive object associated with worship of a god with a really, really funny name. (I've always had this sneaking suspicion that the guy who chiseled the Rosetta stone was a practical joker and all the hieroglyphics on the tomb walls really spell out dirty Egyptian limericks.)

I think demonstrating to TWCBY (new acronym, Those Who Come Behind You) that part of what you learned along the way was to critically analyze what you're told by the "authorities" (the manual in this case) and dismiss the advice when you know it will be unsafe for either the operator or the intended part is one of the key skills they must develop as well as they traverse the sisyphean construction of their first engines. [I think I've just set a new record for sentence length.]

 

[vlmarshall]

I've always had this sneaking suspicion that the guy who chiseled the Rosetta stone was a practical joker and all the hieroglyphics on the tomb walls really spell out dirty Egyptian limericks.

;D Awesome. ;D

 

[Artie]

(I've always had this sneaking suspicion that the guy who chiseled the Rosetta stone was a practical joker and all the hieroglyphics on the tomb walls really spell out dirty Egyptian limericks.)

I think many would be surprised how accurate this tongue in cheek comment actually is...... Im partly indigenous Aussie and as such have a little understanding of the meanings hidden in our indigenous artwork.

On a recent visit to the famous rock paintings in Kakadu National Park in the Northern Territory here in Aus I was amused to see ancient rock paintings which the local white 'experts' had gleened to depict old hunting scenes... with my Racial Memory I was able to read a different message... Most of it was along the lines of George W is an idiot etc etc etc Obama didnt fair well either...Tony Blair??? Well..I wont go there as there are ladys and children on this forum sometimes.....

 

[Deanofid]

Zee, from watching your "adventures", and reading your many posts, I get the idea you're fairly easy going. Mainly because you continue to take the abuse handed you from the person that wrote up the instructions! It's a shame they charge for this. If they're taking your money, the least they could do is provide you with a bobby-trap-free write up. I've got lots of instruction-ish articles on my web pages, but at least if I make a mistake, someone else doesn't have to pay for it..

I understand wanting to do it "by the book". Good on you. Being a martyr for the next new builder is making a lot of work for you, though. It's your party, of course, but if you see something that looks wrong, it probably is, (just like you thought with this last part. See, you're wise.). Possibly, besides being instructional to others, one of the outcomes will be to warn them off this kit.

But I was sneaky...I bought extra material when I got the kit. I shall prevail.

Well, maybe that was their cunning plan... To get newer builders to buy more of their stuff. That's just not fair play.

Despite all the efforts of the person who wrote the instructions, you still end up with good parts. You're doing well. Keep up the good work. (Watch for pitfalls.)

Dean

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Marv. I think I need to reread some of your posts. ;D
Thanks Vernon.
Thanks Artie.
Thanks Dean. Actually, the extra material was from a different company. Yeah...I kind of figured it wouldn't go well...but six months ago I would have had no idea.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

And now a song...

To the tune of 'Found a Peanut'...

chucked a part up
center drilled it
got a drill bit
started drilling
pecked away at it
broke the drill bit
threw the part away
...sing!!!...
cursed a hot one
kicked myself again
got another bit
repeat…

rats ;D

 

[rleete]

I do like the fact that you're showing both the good and the bad. I can imagine most of the stuff as being things I might do, and it shows that it takes a while to aquire the skills.

Some other places have long build threads (not necessarily engines or models), and you'd think they could have done the project in a weekend, judging by how perfectly everything apparently went for them. It almost sounds effortless, with no broken tools, missed dimensions or other mistakes.



Edit: About the song. Don't quit your day job.