boiler explosion. what not to do.

[chrsbrbnk]

On many of full size traction engine boilers and some models , in the us don't use a bushing for any penetration's where they can get like 3 threads. Some of the crown sheets don't have a bushing where the fusible plug penetrates. Alot of the models and or new boilers do have bushings welded into the plate penetrations partially for better wear life , partially because stronger and partially because it looks better and partially because some are required by pipe size.

 

[Bentwings]

On many of full size traction engine boilers and some models , in the us don't use a bushing for any penetration's where they can get like 3 threads. Some of the crown sheets don't have a bushing where the fusible plug penetrates. Alot of the models and or new boilers do have bushings welded into the plate penetrations partially for better wear life , partially because stronger and partially because it looks better and partially because some are required by pipe size.

Interesting thing happened last night. I gave the 4” dia 18” long round bar stock to my son yesterday . H left it in the car and it was -10 deg F so really cold. He has a shop coffee pot so when he came in in the morning he set it on the pot warming pad or heater over night he said I was 200 + deg F this morning he set it on a moving blanket and and covered it now almost 12 hours later it still 180 deg way too hot to pick up. Hopefully the balsa insulation will work as well. I have a piece of 4” aluminum tube that I’m going to roll form th balsa sheet around. Old model plane trick. Wet the wood with ammonia water and gently wrap the wood around then let it dry. It should come out as close fitting round balsa tube . I’ll cut holes for any fittings needed the polished stainless steel outer wrap will be much harder to deal with. We have some hole punches and edge rollers so hopefully the right sizes. But we can make what is needed on the lathe. I found some perfect gears for a gear boiler water feed pump too.
Buron

 

[awake]

Interesting that this uses ammonia water. I've done wood bending using hot water or steam - get the wood flexible with the heat, bend around the form, and clamp, and when it cools / dries it holds its shape. What does the ammonia do in the process?

 

[Bentwings]

Ammonia I wish I had an answer fo you. It just something that I was taught I my very young model airplane days. I agree hocwater hot steam vapor off th tea kettle seems to do the same thing . I think the snob is does something to the wood donut bends Edie. I do remember bending wood in wood working class using it and the hot steamy process too in my current case it will be just as you said wet it and roll i around a tube then secure it for drying there should be a perfect molded shape. We use 3/4 oz fiber glass cloth and a finishing resin on airplanes it really strengthens the parts Ihin the resin just a little it’s home store alcohol. Not rubbing alcohol as that contains lots of water.
byon

 

[Bentwings]

Ammonia I wish I had an answer fo you. It just something that I was taught I my very young model airplane days. I agree hocwater hot steam vapor off th tea kettle seems to do the same thing . I think the snob is does something to the wood donut bends Edie. I do remember bending wood in wood working class using it and the hot steamy process too in my current case it will be just as you said wet it and roll i around a tube then secure it for drying there should be a perfect molded shape. We use 3/4 oz fiber glass cloth and a finishing resin on airplanes it really strengthens the parts Ihin the resin just a little it’s home store alcohol. Not rubbing alcohol as that contains lots of water.
byon

I just looked up in my portable library about ammonia . Anhydrous is bad that seems to be in agreement . When I was in grade school I think many teachers were fresh out of military trading from Ww2 there was only one way to do things . How you were being taught . All other ways were incorrect. No further discussion permitted . In Athletics a mistake or dumb comment usually resulted in running laps or doing some exercise until you dropped. So the Ammonia method became way to do things . I’ll try the hot water method tonight s the ammonia won’t be here for a couple days. Apparently it softens the cellular bond but allows it to come back. There was mention or tannin having something to do with it I don’t under stand that . I think tannin is leather industry stuff. Maybe someone can straighten me out . I’m off to bend some wood. LOL
Byron
byron

 

[Bentwings]

I just looked up in my portable library about ammonia . Anhydrous is bad that seems to be in agreement . When I was in grade school I think many teachers were fresh out of military trading from Ww2 there was only one way to do things . How you were being taught . All other ways were incorrect. No further discussion permitted . In Athletics a mistake or dumb comment usually resulted in running laps or doing some exercise until you dropped. So the Ammonia method became way to do things . I’ll try the hot water method tonight s the ammonia won’t be here for a couple days. Apparently it softens the cellular bond but allows it to come back. There was mention or tannin having something to do with it I don’t under stand that . I think tannin is leather industry stuff. Maybe someone can straighten me out . I’m off to bend some wood. LOL
Byron
byron

ok, so I soaked a piece of 1/8” x3 x36” fir one hour in the bath tub then wrapped it around the 4”!aluminum tube I put about a dozen rubber bands around it but the wood did not conform completely so I put t back in the tub and covered it with a soaking wet bath towel . It’s now midnight so I’ll te soak it and go to bed shortly it doesn’t look like I’m going to get a full wrap tonight . I’ll repeat tomorrow . Just keeping it wet as possible it’s hot water . The wood is very close to splitting now. I don’t have an easy way of steaming other than standing it in s pan of simmering hot water It will be a couple days before I get the ammonia
4 more sheets to go

Byron

 

[Rocket Man]

When I build a boiler I always fill it totally full of water so there is no air inside. Then attach a water tank to the boiler and pressure the water tank with shop air compressor. Air pressure is always a bomb if boiler busts but water leaks are just a water sprayer.

 

[n8hfi]

Interesting that this uses ammonia water. I've done wood bending using hot water or steam - get the wood flexible with the heat, bend around the form, and clamp, and when it cools / dries it holds its shape. What does the ammonia do in the process?

The lignols that cross-link lignin (which is the polymer that gives wood stiffness) can be disrupted by an alkaline solution. An aqueous solution of ammonia is alkaline, and will also completely evaporate without residue. So wood soaked in aqua-ammonia will be pliable when wet, but when the ammonia evaporates, the lignin crosslinks will reform in the new configuration and the wood will retain its new shape.
Experiments were described, and references provided, in an article in US Boat and Ship Modeler magazine, Fall 1989.

 

[Bentwings]

When I build a boiler I always fill it totally full of water so there is no air inside. Then attach a water tank to the boiler and pressure the water tank with shop air compressor. Air pressure is always a bomb if boiler busts but water leaks are just a water sprayer.

Yes that’s the way it was done in industry we also had a water tank so there wasn’t any mess at all. I have a test purse that we’ll do later just to see where there are weak points. I’m not really worried about fittings as even aluminum AN FITTINGS HAVE TAKED SOME REAL HARD HITS IN THE RACE CARS WHEN THE BLOWER HAS 60+ psi boost then goes boom from essentially combustion pressure fittings stay in hoses might rip but nothing comes apart from pressure . The only fitting issues are if they are previously messed up . My gaskets are more likely to leak if this stupid spell check doesn’t stop messing things up. OL I MADE ARRANGEMENTS TO HAVEVTHE RAW CASTINGS PAINTED NEXT WEEK . I was looking at the connection for the two engines, I may have to add a flex coupling to prevent binding but it’s not really an issue that can’t be easily solved .
So I appreciate comments. Chips are being piled up already so there is progress . I have visitors coming next week so I’ll be busy intertwining a couple days .

 

[Bentwings]

ok, so I soaked a piece of 1/8” x3 x36” fir one hour in the bath tub then wrapped it around the 4”!aluminum tube I put about a dozen rubber bands around it but the wood did not conform completely so I put t back in the tub and covered it with a soaking wet bath towel . It’s now midnight so I’ll te soak it and go to bed shortly it doesn’t look like I’m going to get a full wrap tonight . I’ll repeat tomorrow . Just keeping it wet as possible it’s hot water . The wood is very close to splitting now. I don’t have an easy way of steaming other than standing it in s pan of simmering hot water It will be a couple days before I get the ammonia
4 more sheets to go

Byron

I just checked my submerged balsa wrapped tube and it’s not looking good it’s been wet for 30 hours and not fully wrapped. Ammonia won’t be here for another day . I don’t know if. Noted I did look up what it does. It weaken or stretches cell walls then as he wood dries the cell walls re turn to original . My kitty likes to claw on the bath mat but she does like water too so she left a few claw marks in the soft balsa . Ultimately it will work fine I’m glad you suggested it . I’ve scrapped th header wrap . I told my son to olishvthe boiler tube so it shines my grand son really does a nice job polishing aluminum except for the end caps it won’t be visible I have some heavier extension cords for the plug in cord . Just got notice the electric timer got cancelled stuck in China . So I’ll pick another . I did get a nice pressure relief valve that’s adjustable. We have a pressure testing set up I will work on . PM REsearch has globe valves but I found some nice stainless steel ones with Teflon ball so I may go with those. They are not very big . They will work for blow down . There is also a solinoid valve that I may use for the fill circuit I’ll have to see how the gear pump turns out I could hook push buttons for each so blow down could be hands off for emergency . Once the boiler is done I can get more into how that shakes it . I’m almost finished with my sssembly bench there are a lot of parts in the box I’ve got a new needle nose plus a nice forceps so tiny stuff will not be much issue . -14 deg F tonight windy tomorrow electric blanket weather . Why do we choose to live up here if I had a beard I could be a cave man my loving sister says I’m more like a neandrathal because I’m thick headed. Not many are blessed with as nice of sister as she is I was such a pill when we were growing up .
byron

 

[Bentwings]

I just checked my submerged balsa wrapped tube and it’s not looking good it’s been wet for 30 hours and not fully wrapped. Ammonia won’t be here for another day . I don’t know if. Noted I did look up what it does. It weaken or stretches cell walls then as he wood dries the cell walls re turn to original . My kitty likes to claw on the bath mat but she does like water too so she left a few claw marks in the soft balsa . Ultimately it will work fine I’m glad you suggested it . I’ve scrapped th header wrap . I told my son to olishvthe boiler tube so it shines my grand son really does a nice job polishing aluminum except for the end caps it won’t be visible I have some heavier extension cords for the plug in cord . Just got notice the electric timer got cancelled stuck in China . So I’ll pick another . I did get a nice pressure relief valve that’s adjustable. We have a pressure testing set up I will work on . PM REsearch has globe valves but I found some nice stainless steel ones with Teflon ball so I may go with those. They are not very big . They will work for blow down . There is also a solinoid valve that I may use for the fill circuit I’ll have to see how the gear pump turns out I could hook push buttons for each so blow down could be hands off for emergency . Once the boiler is done I can get more into how that shakes it . I’m almost finished with my sssembly bench there are a lot of parts in the box I’ve got a new needle nose plus a nice forceps so tiny stuff will not be much issue . -14 deg F tonight windy tomorrow electric blanket weather . Why do we choose to live up here if I had a beard I could be a cave man my loving sister says I’m more like a neandrathal because I’m thick headed. Not many are blessed with as nice of sister as she is I was such a pill when we were growing up .
byron

I just looked in on the bend. It’s just wet wood . I also had a reminder from another aero modeler that vinegar is used in wood bending. So today’s test will be white vinegar . I have to clean anyway so it will be a goo test . I actually forgot about this . So I give it a try . Now I have wet wood and it -10F outside so I’ll just stand it op in the shower to dry .

 

[Bentwings]

I just looked in on the bend. It’s just wet wood . I also had a reminder from another aero modeler that vinegar is used in wood bending. So today’s test will be white vinegar . I have to clean anyway so it will be a goo test . I actually forgot about this . So I give it a try . Now I have wet wood and it -10F outside so I’ll just stand it op in the shower to dry .

Once t dries it remains she Bouygues s stiff a ITV before I’ll try he vinegar tomorrow. Hard to mess this project up if the edges nt nicely curved I’ll just cut them off trim an yellow glue them back on . I’ll have Full 1/2” thick balsa cylinder

 

[Bentwings]

Please disregard last post it’s not t all what I previewed. I’m totally frustrated I spend more time correcting this dumb spell check than I do writing

 

[Bentwings]

After my last meltdown in frustration I’m UMI comftable posting again . I’ve continued Sean’s go mr information . Coorosion has been entered . I built and driven streetrods for many year my last was supercharged Chevy eve and. Complet ca build I drove it 30k miles with almos no issues it had an aluminum radiator that I added fitting to by Tig welding it had anodes tat I changed yearly just like my boat it ran as high a 240 deg F with 16 psi pressure for is entire life there were Ac engine oil and trans oil coolers so there was a lot of heat transfer going n the interior was closvtnnew looking There was no special water just plain old tap water Lyme as ever . So I’m ok s da I did a bunch of searching as a result of one ovy’all commens about coorosion . Turns out my home ad small Indus boiler a made from aluminums. High silicon based . I haven’t gone down t slot roa yet I’ve seen some really nasty pictures so I’m atertd. It appears that te anode will elf. But the input of cold water fill seems to hav big effect I had thought of tod by not h coosive fetch . I on understand it. How’ve I’ve given thought with at o doi exhaust heater it steam or vapor . Industry uses condense or economy’s or I cad. So now other item to consider . I don’t nt end to have it running ll all day, juwhen I want to av fun, lying with toys a a-third gegen. kid. I see another pe of fittings a Device

this post is going to be a mess. I tried to just delete it but it some how returned.

im switching devices so now I have to do electronics hand changing. It appears there is less spellcheck intervention so I’ll give this a try.
im going to try the vinegar method tonight as I need to clean the bathtub anyway so I do two things together. The first test is almost dry. I’ll take a picture and try to post it. I’ll be able to use the vent wood but I’ll need a little rework to really make the wrap tight. Balsa is easy to work with..
byron.

 

[ddmckee54]

The ammonia water trick works best for thin sheets, 1/16" or less. The 1/8" sheets might be pushing your luck. I've steam bent wood and even hot there's a limit to how much stress the wood will take before it breaks. The native americans used to bend wood for canoe ribs and snowshoes just using water. But the bending was done a little at a time with the wood soaking constantly over several weeks, if not months. while being bent.

 

[mcostello]

Check out Engles Coach Shop, He makes and repairs buggys and wagons and such and bends wood. ok to delete if not allowed.

 

[Bentwings]

The ammonia water trick works best for thin sheets, 1/16" or less. The 1/8" sheets might be pushing your luck. I've steam bent wood and even hot there's a limit to how much stress the wood will take before it breaks. The native americans used to bend wood for canoe ribs and snowshoes just using water. But the bending was done a little at a time with the wood soaking constantly over several weeks, if not months. while being bent.

I just got the ammonia and I have vinegar so I’ll try both my humidity is pretty low hot water bend is almost dry humidity pretty low even with humidifier running. So drying much faster than expected.

 

[Rocket Man]

Yes that’s the way it was done in industry we also had a water tank so there wasn’t any mess at all. I have a test purse that we’ll do later just to see where there are weak points. I’m not really worried about fittings as even aluminum AN FITTINGS HAVE TAKED SOME REAL HARD HITS IN THE RACE CARS WHEN THE BLOWER HAS 60+ psi boost then goes boom from essentially combustion pressure fittings stay in hoses might rip but nothing comes apart from pressure . The only fitting issues are if they are previously messed up . My gaskets are more likely to leak if this stupid spell check doesn’t stop messing things up. OL I MADE ARRANGEMENTS TO HAVEVTHE RAW CASTINGS PAINTED NEXT WEEK . I was looking at the connection for the two engines, I may have to add a flex coupling to prevent binding but it’s not really an issue that can’t be easily solved .
So I appreciate comments. Chips are being piled up already so there is progress . I have visitors coming next week so I’ll be busy intertwining a couple days .

My son is a certified auto mechanic with about 10 certificates. He loves to build hot rod engines. He talks about boost all the time. He bought a used Chevy truck took, motor, transmission, rear end apart then built it his way. He is getting about 600 hp out of the V8 engine. He drives with lap top computer on front see so he can see with the engine is doing.

 

[ajoeiam]

My son is a certified auto mechanic with about 10 certificates. He loves to build hot rod engines. He talks about boost all the time. He bought a used Chevy truck took, motor, transmission, rear end apart then built it his way. He is getting about 600 hp out of the V8 engine. He drives with lap top computer on front see so he can see with the engine is doing.

I would be quite curious as to the software he's using to 'peek' into the controls on the vehicle - - please?

TIA

 

[Rocket Man]

I would be quite curious as to the software he's using to 'peek' into the controls on the vehicle - - please?

TIA

You need to talk to my son about that. I will PM you his name so you can find him on Facebook. He is an online auto technician he works at home 8am to 5pm you can not take to him while he is working. You can send him a message during the day he will answer it later. He loves to talk about engines. Look at his truck on FB listen to the engine run.

I'm not sure how to do PM? Found PM after typing message no option to SEND? ???? I clicked start conversation not sure if that worked.??