This is a 6HP (plated 5 1/2HP) Manatoba built engine not a 7HP
Ball Hopper Monitor - Casting Project
- Thread starter GreenTwin
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Is it a Baker built engine ?
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No Manatiba Windmill and Pump Co.
Recess in hopper is simpler as both valve stems stick out the bottom of the valve block
Recess in hopper is simpler as both valve stems stick out the bottom of the valve block
The results of the dog test are in.
I used 100% fastpatch, and 30/70% corn starch and fastpatch.
The 30/70 tends to gouge a bit too easily, although it does sand more quickly.
The fastpatch is actually about the right hardness and plasticity.
Using the blunt end of the scissors, either filler type can be punched and relatively easily broken off in large patches.
There is some adhesion of the fastpatch to the plastic, and so unless the pattern is struck by something or dropped on a hard floor, the filler should remain adhered to the plastic.
The dog print has some leftover automotive skim coat on it, and I did the punch test on that material.
The skim coat has superb adhesion to plastic, and basically the plastic behind the skim coat fails before the skim coat releases.
The skim coat is some good filler, but very messy, and it requires a chemical respirator.
The sanding force required is a bit high for model pattern work.
I have had adhesion problems using fastpatch on plastic, wood, and aluminum, for pattern work, but for a very low volume use pattern, some occasional flaking is acceptable.
Hopefully these hopper pattern halves will only be used once, otherwise I may have to do some refilling.
Coating the entire pattern and filler with several coats of shellac greatly reduces the tendency of the filler to crack and flake off.
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I used 100% fastpatch, and 30/70% corn starch and fastpatch.
The 30/70 tends to gouge a bit too easily, although it does sand more quickly.
The fastpatch is actually about the right hardness and plasticity.
Using the blunt end of the scissors, either filler type can be punched and relatively easily broken off in large patches.
There is some adhesion of the fastpatch to the plastic, and so unless the pattern is struck by something or dropped on a hard floor, the filler should remain adhered to the plastic.
The dog print has some leftover automotive skim coat on it, and I did the punch test on that material.
The skim coat has superb adhesion to plastic, and basically the plastic behind the skim coat fails before the skim coat releases.
The skim coat is some good filler, but very messy, and it requires a chemical respirator.
The sanding force required is a bit high for model pattern work.
I have had adhesion problems using fastpatch on plastic, wood, and aluminum, for pattern work, but for a very low volume use pattern, some occasional flaking is acceptable.
Hopefully these hopper pattern halves will only be used once, otherwise I may have to do some refilling.
Coating the entire pattern and filler with several coats of shellac greatly reduces the tendency of the filler to crack and flake off.
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I searched for info on that engine (Manatiba), but found nothing.
Looks very much like a Baker.
Edit:
Looking at the photos, it seems like a Baker, mounted on a base.
Water jacket cracked completely vertically.
The parting line seems to be horizontally at the bead, and the bead is almost ground off flush.
There is another photo of an almost identical engine, but the other engine has counterbalance weight inside the flywheel rim, as was done on the Galloway.
The engine you refer to as Manatiba does not have the counterbalance weights inside the rim, but has the recesses in the side of the rim.
A photo of what is definitely a restored 7 hp Monitor also has the Galloway-style counterbalances inside the rim.
Does somebody call it out as a Mantiba on fb or something?
It looks just like the 7hp Baker from the catalog, with no Galloway-style counterbalances in the flywheel.
At any rate, whatever it is, it is the only ball-hopper-style engine I recall seeing on a base.
I would make my base tall enough so that the flywheels would clear the ground.
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I was searching for "Manatiba Windmill and Pump Co.", and that did not bring back any results.
But low and behold, I found a cut for the "Master Workman" engine by the Temple Pump Company.
I saw one of these running at an antique engine show in Mt. Pleasant Iowa in the 1970's, and it had very little vibration.
I have never seen one since.
Someone was hiding about 30 feet away from the engine, and there was a wire buried underground.
They could somehow hit the ignition switch, and this engine would self-start.
There was a big crowd around the engine, and everyone scratching their head trying to figure out how it was starting and stopping by itself.
I never knew who the engine manufacturer was, and I have never seen another hit-and-miss style twin, other than perhaps a Frisco Standard twin.
I would really like to build this engine.
Has anyone built a model of this ?
Here is a photo I took of one of these engines running at an engine show in the 1970's.
But low and behold, I found a cut for the "Master Workman" engine by the Temple Pump Company.
I saw one of these running at an antique engine show in Mt. Pleasant Iowa in the 1970's, and it had very little vibration.
I have never seen one since.
Someone was hiding about 30 feet away from the engine, and there was a wire buried underground.
They could somehow hit the ignition switch, and this engine would self-start.
There was a big crowd around the engine, and everyone scratching their head trying to figure out how it was starting and stopping by itself.
I never knew who the engine manufacturer was, and I have never seen another hit-and-miss style twin, other than perhaps a Frisco Standard twin.
I would really like to build this engine.
Has anyone built a model of this ?
Here is a photo I took of one of these engines running at an engine show in the 1970's.
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And speaking of old engines, the search turned up this cool video.
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I vaguely recall seeing the Manitobas, but I forget the details of it.
So my guess it is the Canadian subsidiary of Baker ?
It is a Baker engine, no doubt.
I will go back and research how it came to be manufactured under a different label.
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Edit:
It appears that Manitoba was one of Baker's branch offices.
That is funny how they copied the Baker signature Monitor "M".
Still a Baker vertical jump spark engine though.
You can compare the horizontal and vertical Baker gas engine bore and stroke vs horsepower in the chart from the Baker brochure.
I think the valve and carb arrangement would explain the difference in horsepower for the same bore, ie: the horizontal engines had some nice hemi-style overhead valves, and could produce more horsepower for the same bore.
Or perhaps it is the slighly longer stroke in the horizontal engine that produce more horsepower.
So my guess it is the Canadian subsidiary of Baker ?
It is a Baker engine, no doubt.
I will go back and research how it came to be manufactured under a different label.
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Edit:
It appears that Manitoba was one of Baker's branch offices.
That is funny how they copied the Baker signature Monitor "M".
Still a Baker vertical jump spark engine though.
You can compare the horizontal and vertical Baker gas engine bore and stroke vs horsepower in the chart from the Baker brochure.
I think the valve and carb arrangement would explain the difference in horsepower for the same bore, ie: the horizontal engines had some nice hemi-style overhead valves, and could produce more horsepower for the same bore.
Or perhaps it is the slighly longer stroke in the horizontal engine that produce more horsepower.
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A couple of Ball Hopper Monitors I saw at a show in the 1970's.
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Fidlstyks
Well-Known Member
Wood flour works better than cornstarch. Cornstarch is an emergency replacement for Wood Flour
Fidlstyks
Well-Known Member
Is that the Canadian one that was for sale. Or he was hunting a valve chest anyway.This is a 6HP (plated 5 1/2HP) Manatoba built engine not a 7HP
From what I understand, the 6 hp was earlier, the 7 was just a rerated. I think they moved the tag and maybe added a flywheel handcrank?
Fidlstyks
Well-Known Member
Is this MtPleasant? The one I have came local, he showed there 50 years ago. I had a 2 and 4, but sold them long ago.
That is very odd to see the variants on the "M".
I guess the Baker folks let them do their thing, which is pretty cool in my opinion.
Some folks who run companies that I have worked for were so incredibly controlling it was not funny.
You could not change a light bulb without the owner getting all up in arms about something getting done differently without his approval.
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If you like the 50/50 mix for the ease of sanding, you might try stabilizing the filler after sanding it by applying a thin CA to the filler. The thin CA will wick into the porous structure and more or less turn it into a solid plastic. Just be sure you've got all the sanding done first, 'cause if you think Durham's Water Putty is hard to sand...
I also use that trick to harden softwood. I've even used it to stabilize MDF so I could thread a hole in a bench top in an area that was inaccessible to install a Tee-nut. You just drill and tap the hole as normal, soak it with the thin CA, hit it with a shot of accelerator, then run the tap through again to clean up any fuzzies in the threads - easee-peasee.
I also use that trick to harden softwood. I've even used it to stabilize MDF so I could thread a hole in a bench top in an area that was inaccessible to install a Tee-nut. You just drill and tap the hole as normal, soak it with the thin CA, hit it with a shot of accelerator, then run the tap through again to clean up any fuzzies in the threads - easee-peasee.
Yes, CA would definitely turn it into a rock.
The sanding has not been too bad.
I did part of the sanding with a 2" sanding disk in the angle drill, and part of it hand sanding.
The 2" sanding disk works pretty well on the inside of the hopper pattern, despite the curvature of the surface.
I think shellac will work ok as a surface hardener, and shellac can be sanded and recoated multiple times, as required.
Shellac dries fast too, in as little as 15 minutes sometimes.
I have the patterns about as far as I can get them for the moment.
I just need the airbrush now, to see if that is going to work on the final surfaces.
Tracking the package shows it has not shipped yet, I am sure it will get stuck in the holiday shipping rush.
I will try to start printing the gas tank while I wait on the airbrush.
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The sanding has not been too bad.
I did part of the sanding with a 2" sanding disk in the angle drill, and part of it hand sanding.
The 2" sanding disk works pretty well on the inside of the hopper pattern, despite the curvature of the surface.
I think shellac will work ok as a surface hardener, and shellac can be sanded and recoated multiple times, as required.
Shellac dries fast too, in as little as 15 minutes sometimes.
I have the patterns about as far as I can get them for the moment.
I just need the airbrush now, to see if that is going to work on the final surfaces.
Tracking the package shows it has not shipped yet, I am sure it will get stuck in the holiday shipping rush.
I will try to start printing the gas tank while I wait on the airbrush.
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Fidlstyks
Well-Known Member
I talk to that guy? I think he found the main caps.
Fidlstyks
Well-Known Member
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