Want to make energy please.

[ieezitin]

Gentlemen
I want to make an engine/engines to charge a 12/24 volt electrical system that could run 8 hours a day.

My fuel/energy resources are endless wood, solar and wind.

I have adequate Turning, milling and shaping capabilities and a healthy knowledge on the use of them.

I really want to use existing parts from old discarded equipment re-cycle you could say.

My weaknesses are in the electrical and computer side of the equipment to where I would turn to the board for help anyway.

What do you suggest and why.

Anthony

 

[OrangeAlpine]

Are you kidding? Endless (24/7)? wind and your thinking of cutting wood?

Bill

 

[ieezitin]

Orange

My intention here is not to produce energy for myself and go off grid. I have a 10 acre farm and have the capability to produce 8KW of power via a diesel engine which serves me well in power black outs.

My reason for doing this is I enjoy making things that are useful, also this would take me into a field where I know nothing about electronics and I want to learn more about it. I also need a long term project for my shop, plus one more thing I have never made an engine, I have always been on the tool making side of things in machining.

Anthony.
ps I have a lot of wood which i currently use for heat in my shop in a wood stove.

 

[OrangeAlpine]

Well, in that case, if you want to make an engine, it seems the choices are wood gas, steam and hot air. If you want to go for a trifecta, go for the wood gas, which produces charcoal as a byproduct. The charcoal could be used to fire a boiler or a hot air engine.

As this is a project aimed at self enlightenment, which you choose really makes no difference. I'm willing to bet there is a big pile of stuff to be learned in each discipline.

Bill

 

[obrian]

Here is a link to 2500 pages of free energy projects. (free-energy-info.co.uk) You can download the e-book free. There are mechanical, and electronic devices. I am working on some now and hope to post a small one soon. I am retired electronics tech and am willing to help if I can.

Dennis

 

[dman]

yeah look up wood gasifyers. you can also use other organic waist like left over food and organic trash in it to run an internal combustion engine. the cool thing is the gasifyer is also a heat source so you can potentially heat your shop or run a secondary low pressure steam generator that could also potentially be run on solar (given a very large panel since low pressure steam won't be highly efficient).

as far as the circuitry and generator it depends a lot on the power source. wind or a turbine could potentially use a car alternator which could produce a bit over a kw if you get a heavy duty unit for a modern luxury car and about half a kw from a typical unit you are likely to salvage from an old car. in theory you could produce a few kw if you remove or modify the voltage regulator and operate at a higher voltages but then you need to make sure you have adequate power to turn the generator so for a wind application it may not be beneficial to make modifications if the turbine is not large enough.

but an internal combustion engine may benefit from a different generator.

an internal combustion engine running on a gas makes less power than on liquid fuels since the gas fuel being less dense also has less energy density as well as it will displace more of the intake system and combustion chamber than a vapor meaning less air/oxygen but if you used say a small car engine you could still make a good 10kw or more as long as you keep feeding it wood.

 

[Entropy455]

My 2-cents:

If there were money to be made in solar and wind, investors would be lining up, but they’re not – which is why the industries will go under the moment the generous government subsidies dry up. . .

The typical home hobbyist cannot dope semiconductor material and build solar cells. Thus for a solar project, you’re limited to purchasing and installing preexisting (and rather expensive) solar cells. Unless you live on the coast, or downwind of a large plateau that’s void of any and all trees, wind power will be unreliable and inefficient at best.

My recommendation would be to build an internal combustion piston-engine, and hook it up to an automotive alternator. You can also run a truck or marine alternator, if you’re after 24-volts.

You say you don’t know electricity well – thus I strongly recommend that you do not attempt to build an alternator or generator from scratch – as there’s some pretty hefty electrical engineering involved in designing an efficient and compact alternator.

Helpful tips: Electrical power (in watts) is equal to voltage (in volts) times current (in amperes).

There are 746 electrical watts in one horsepower.

Example: a 140 amp, 12-volt alternator will output 1680 watts at a 140 amp load, which is equal to 2.25 horsepower. A typical electromechanical efficiency of an alternator (the efficiency of turning rotational mechanical power into electrical power) is roughly 70%. Thus to get 1680 watts out of the 140 amp alternator, you will need to drive the alternator with a 3.22 horsepower engine.

The process goes like this: Identify your desired electrical power requirements (voltage, and current). Select an alternator that will meet this requirement when loaded between 40% to 70% of its full power manufacturers rating. Then design your engine to deliver the required mechanical power input (at the proper rpm for the alternator).

 

[Tin Falcon]

The focus of this board is building model engines as a hobby for fun.
While some of the engines will convert some energy to usable power the engines tyicaly built here in small scales are inherently inefficient.

For your interests in model engine building we will glad to help you in your endeavors.

As far as independent living living off the grid I suggest Google and seeking the advice of forums that deal with such things.

Wind generators can be built. Methane digesters can be made to produce usable natural gas from animal(including Human) waste. Solar will heat water, and heat a home or shop.
All conversion systems have there strengths and weaknesses. You will likely need multiple systems and or a hybrid system to meet your goals.

I suggest you consult a forum with people who are familiar with these technologies. .


You will need to do much research that is beyond the scope of this forum.

Tin

 

[ieezitin]

Tin
As I clarified in post #3 off grid and such stuff is not my intention, making an engine is.

This group designs and builds model engines, granted more often than not you want to scale down, I want to scale up from your normal size.

It was hard to word my request for information in the beginning of this thread for fear of getting my needs miscommunicated looks like I succeeded.

I just recognized the fact you guys know engines of all kinds and how best they function, I just need a little pointer along the way where to spend my efforts in research to build an engine / engines 1/3 to scale or so and what fuel needs are required.

Anthony.

 

[Tin Falcon]

As I stated earlier:

The focus of this board is building model engines as a hobby for fun.
While some of the engines will convert some energy to usable power the engines tyicaly built here in small scales are inherently inefficient.

For your interests in model engine building we will glad to help you in your endeavors.

Tin

 

[Rocket Man]

Every energy system has advantages and disadvantages.

Lets assume you can run your whole house on a 5000 watt generator running 24 hrs every day. That might average out to about 2500 watts per hr for 24 hrs = 60,000. total. Peak might be close to 5000 some times and as low as 1000 watts other times.

Solar is very low maintenance but you only get about 15 hrs of sun light in summer and 7 hrs in winter. A 3'x6' solar panel produces about 240 watts. 42 panels gives you 10,000. when the sun is up. During the summer you can run your house all day on 5000 watts and store the other 5000 watts in batteries for night time. During the winter when there is only 7 hrs of sun light the system still might produce enough power for night time too if your careful.

Wind blows pretty much all the time. Some days wind might be very slow to dead calm and other days wind could be 30 mph. During tornado and thunder storm season you need a way to rotate the blades out of the wind and lock the brake. You still need a battery storage system to sort power on days when it is windy to be used on days when it is dead calm. You might do fine with a 6000 to 7000 watts wind generator.

Wood might be a good alternative source of heat just in case you don't have enougth power in your battery storage system to heat the house at night. Wood won''t do you much good in summer when you need AC unless you have a steam engine to run a generator.

If you have a large stream or river running past your house a floating generator is probably a better source of energy than wind or solar as long as it is not a wet weather stream. If you have water all the time 5000 watts will kept your house supplied with power all the time with no storage system.

Over the past 40 years I have collected every thing I need to build a wind generator. Now I am old and don't have the motovation to build it anymore. I was going to sell it but don't have the motovation to dig the stuff out of my storage building to get rid if it. I had a 4x4 factory steam engine too for about 5 years. I had fun running it and experementing with it but finally sold it to the guy that owns the Memphis Queen steam boat in Memphis TN. Last month I checked with several companies that will install solar panels on the roof SOLAR CITY is the best company they want $14,000. for the whole system and will insure it and maintain it for as long as I own it the company gets the Federal Tax Credit not me. All other companies wanted $40,000. and up with no insurance and no maintanance of the system.

If you have an endless supply of wood build a steam engine to power a generator.

 

[dman]

Every energy system has advantages and disadvantages.

Wood might be a good alternative source of heat just in case you don't have enougth power in your battery storage system to heat the house at night. Wood won''t do you much good in summer when you need AC unless you have a steam engine to run a generator.

If you have an endless supply of wood build a steam engine to power a generator.

why not run an IC engine off of wood?

https://www.google.com/search?clien...rceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

the germans did it in the 30's to power auto mobiles in areas where fuel was scarce. it's gotta be easier to keep a steady state generator running off wood than a car..

 

[Entropy455]

There is something to be said when a new technology is briefly put into production, and then disappears forever. A few examples that come to mind: hydrogen blimps, steam powered cars, gas-turbine powered cars, DC electric power grids, 25-Hz power stations, gasified wood powered cars - - - just to name a few.

With regard to power extraction from a model engine-

Building an engine to run under its own power is one thing. Building an engine to power a “load” is a completely different can of worms. For internal combustion, you’ll typically need higher compression and higher rpm – both of which place greater stresses upon the rotating assembly – thus you’ll require a precise balancing job. You’ll also have higher combustion temperatures, and larger amounts of residual heat to dissipate from the cylinder and cylinder head. For steam, you’ll need higher boiler pressures, higher boiler temperatures, and higher condensate feed rates.

For a first engine attempt - I would recommend building a simple engine – one that only needs to overcome the friction of turning itself - without powering a load. . . .

 

[dman]

There is something to be said when a new technology is briefly put into production, and then disappears forever. A few examples that come to mind: hydrogen blimps, steam powered cars, gas-turbine powered cars, DC electric power grids, 25-Hz power stations, gasified wood powered cars - - - just to name a few.

With regard to power extraction from a model engine-

Building an engine to run under its own power is one thing. Building an engine to power a “load” is a completely different can of worms. For internal combustion, you’ll typically need higher compression and higher rpm – both of which place greater stresses upon the rotating assembly – thus you’ll require a precise balancing job. You’ll also have higher combustion temperatures, and larger amounts of residual heat to dissipate from the cylinder and cylinder head. For steam, you’ll need higher boiler pressures, higher boiler temperatures, and higher condensate feed rates.

For a first engine attempt - I would recommend building a simple engine – one that only needs to overcome the friction of turning itself - without powering a load. . . .

although i fully agree gasified wood is a terrible way to power a car. the engine doesn't idle, it makes little power, it's a pain to start, and where do you refuel? but i don't think it's too much of an issue with a stationary generator where you can use a significantly larger engine than you would need on gasoline and the engine never needs to idle. like the op said he's not looking to live off grid. it's a project. it doesn't have to be perfect. i mean if the sources of power are solar wind and wood i think wood is the best bet to diy and get some use out of. i think a wood gasifier is an easier build than a solar or even wood/coal steam engine. wind sounds good but it just doesn't produce enough. solar needs too much panel area to diy, it will always be expensive to do effectively whether it's steam or photo-voltaic. wood is the best option and gasification is the easiest way to do it being it doesn't require building and engineering the engine and figuring steam demand and pressure and cooling and what-not.

i'll say however i wouldn't try to make the engine to run off gasified wood, it would be better to use an available engine. maybe something from a small car or a motorcycle could give you the power you need to run a home.

 

[ieezitin]

Guys

This is just what I wanted.
Through my research so far coming from what’s been stated wood gasification to me is a viable option and pretty simple to boot.

As stated I see the main two possibilities here, taking the syngas off for fuel and installing a Stirling engine on top capturing radiant heat.

Two questions: Would the IC engine need to have the gas supplied to it under slight pressure if not what’s needed? A brief concept I just need to understand the process. The Stirling, where can I find/buy plans to build an adequate size machine? Is there any particular model, concept and or style recommended?

Obrian: What a great link. Please post what you have built I for one am interested. Thanks for the offer of the electrical help I may take you up on it.

Thank you also to everyone else its been a big help.

Anthony.

 

[dman]

Guys

This is just what I wanted.
Through my research so far coming from what’s been stated wood gasification to me is a viable option and pretty simple to boot.

As stated I see the main two possibilities here, taking the syngas off for fuel and installing a Stirling engine on top capturing radiant heat.

Two questions: Would the IC engine need to have the gas supplied to it under slight pressure if not what’s needed? A brief concept I just need to understand the process. The Stirling, where can I find/buy plans to build an adequate size machine? Is there any particular model, concept and or style recommended?

Obrian: What a great link. Please post what you have built I for one am interested. Thanks for the offer of the electrical help I may take you up on it.

Thank you also to everyone else its been a big help.

Anthony.

I haven't built a wood gasifier myself. but from what I've seen you need a heat source which is often the wood itself slowly burning but it could also be externally heated. in the case where the wood burns to heat the gasifier the engines intake will draw in the gas and that will draw in enough air into the bottom where wood is burning (but not flaming) and keep the heat going. the smoke should be filtered to remove solid particles, you might want to have a pre-filter that can be a round can that takes the smoke in tangent to the radius and out through the center of the top so centripetal force and gravity separate solid ash from the gas, the bottom of the can should be removable to empty the ash every once on a while.

if you intend to use a conventional air filter the gas needs to be cooled first. so you need some sort of radiator but it will need good flow so an old turbo intercooler would be a good option or you could make your own by branching the pipe off to several parallel smaller pipes. there also needs to be some kind of mixing valve to let fresh air into the engine with the gas.

you don't need to pressurize anything except for starting the gasifier when you may need to blow air through it (or draw it through) with a vacuum or leaf blower to get the heat started. once you get some flammable gas out of it you can start the engine and it should sustain its self but you may need to make a shaker setup to get the coal to fall to the bottom to start burning and keep the heat going. I'm sure any plans you find will cover these things...

 

[OrangeAlpine]

Wood gas is manufactured by heating wood in an air tight container. Try this little experiment: Poke a hole (beer can opener, AKA, Church Key) into a tin can. I used an evaporated milk can. Empty the milk and insert a few sticks of wood. Heat the can (propane torch will do) until you see the wood starting to blacken. At this point gas (I believe it is methane) will be coming out the hole. Ignite the gas with the torch. You will need to continue heating the can. When the process is complete, the gas fire will go out and the sticks will be charcoal.

When wood is heated in the presence of oxygen, the gas becomes a part of the burning process. If you watch a camp fire, you will notice little jets of blue flame suddenly erupting from the wood, continuing for a while, then going out. That is the wood gas flaming.

That is all I know about wood gas.

Bill

 

[Niels Abildgaard]

Please find an idea for an efficient longlived engine for the home wood powerstation.
The two crankshaft are kept in phase by the two AC generators.

 

[robcas631]

Do you live near water? Or have a stream on your property?

 

[Rocket Man]

Wood gasified works great I have done it. Saw dust works best use the carburetor to suck air through a bed of burning sawdust like a tabaco pipe. Smoke is about 80 percent natural gas. I ran my truck on sawdust many times 25 years ago. The more air the engine sucks the more gas it sucks in. The burning sawdust needs to be sized according to the engine size. A 10" diameter burning sawdust bed works good up to about 40 mph then you need another 10" burning bed of saw dust to get up to 70 mph for highway driving. A long 3 ft metal tube of sawdust is good for about 15 miles of driving on a 4 cylinder 1977 Toyota pickup truck at about 35 mph.

I was about 7 miles from work. I filled the tube with sawdust. I had a work shop propane torch mounted so the flame was on the sawdust. Light the torch then turn the key. The engine would suck air though the saw dust for a few seconds and start it burning then the engine would run. I turned the torch off then drove to work. As long as the engine keeps running the saw dust keeps burning. I shoved a wooden cork down inside the tube at work to kill the fire. After work I fired it up and drove home.

Put the gasification unit in the truck bed, run a 2.5" diameter piece of flexable hose to the carburetor. You need to rid it up like a 4 barrel carburetor so 1 pipe supplies gas to the carburetor at low speed and another tube of sawdust supplies gas at high speed.

3 tubes of burning sawdust works better than 2 tubes you get a better air fuel mixture. Use 1 tube up to 25 mph then 2 tubes up to 50 mph then 3 tubes up to 75 mph. Works good but takes a little tinkering around to get it working smooth.