Time to buy a lathe and mill.

[barnesrickw]

I am by no means an expert, but I bought a Taig as my first metal lathe. It fits into my space and budget requirements, and t was no big problem to get it to my shop. I'm looking forward to gaining more skill, and eventually buying a taig mill. For what I intend to do, it suits me fine.

 

[Rob_B]

Thanks all.

Bob, that 410 mm isn't that much longer than the 350 mm of the lathe I was looking at. But 60 mm is a lot of you need it to finish a project.
But lenght isn't every thing. The SC4 is much more lathe compared to the SC2.

Still not sure what way to go from here.
I hope I have some time next week to go by a store that has some of the lathes that I'm interested in.

 

[mikbul]

@Mikbul. Those are close to what I wanted to get from Sieg. I have a small problem with the Littlemachineshop. I'm in Europe and they don't ship outside the US and Canada. Even if they did, shipping and taxes would make it more expensive that getting some thing similar over here.



But I have more to think about again. [/QUOTE]

Sorry, I failed to notice your location on the planet

 

[AnvilJack]

First, I'm glad you're taking the time to chew it all over.

Second, I would encourage you to buy just one, a lathe, or a mill. The learning curve is engaging, but still real, for you must work for precision. The tooling costs are equally real, and probably more diverse tools than you have realised are needed. This is presumptuous of me, I know, but you will quickly need a bunch of things, if you aim to learn to hit the mark, every time. Quality measuring tools are expensive, for one. Even the cost of stock can be surprising. And marking out a casting, for example, for machining is often a real challenge.

Third, I had a mini lathe, an Emco Compact 5, 350mm between centres. Way too small. My answer to this issue: I suggest to people that they buy an industrial bench machine. Consequently, I now have a Chinese made mill-drill (dovetail column) and a 550 mm between centres lathe, also no-name.

For the mill, a table with 4 16mm T-slots and a weight of some 300 kg indicates that you are getting into the hitting zone, I think. (I use the mill 80% of the time.)

If you get a mill first, get a rotary table (with kit for dividing) as soon as you can: you can do a lot from here. (Use You Tube for info: not many good books around: tons of good lathe books, though).

Finally, from me, what support do you have? Who can you turn to, a mill guru, or a lathe guru? Support from someone who can show you is important, and I encourage you to think about this.

 

[Wizard69]

You have some real good points here.

First, I'm glad you're taking the time to chew it all over.

Second, I would encourage you to buy just one, a lathe, or a mill. The learning curve is engaging, but still real, for you must work for precision.

It isn't just precision it is also learning techniques. I'm talking everything from grinding a tool to setting up an operation.

The tooling costs are equally real, and probably more diverse tools than you have realised are needed. This is presumptuous of me, I know, but you will quickly need a bunch of things, if you aim to learn to hit the mark, every time. Quality measuring tools are expensive, for one.

Tooling is a killer! Of course some guys start out with more than others but starting up a shop can result in significant hand tool costs.

Even the cost of stock can be surprising. And marking out a casting, for example, for machining is often a real challenge.

Third, I had a mini lathe, an Emco Compact 5, 350mm between centres. Way too small. My answer to this issue: I suggest to people that they buy an industrial bench machine. Consequently, I now have a Chinese made mill-drill (dovetail column) and a 550 mm between centres lathe, also no-name.

For the mill, a table with 4 16mm T-slots and a weight of some 300 kg indicates that you are getting into the hitting zone, I think. (I use the mill 80% of the time.)

Selecting between a mill and a lathe as the first purchase is difficult for some but I tend to suggest going for a lathe first. There is a lot to learn for one. Realistically though you can't start out with a mill as some key parts require a lathe. A lathe will get you started with simple engines.

If you get a mill first, get a rotary table (with kit for dividing) as soon as you can: you can do a lot from here. (Use You Tube for info: not many good books around: tons of good lathe books, though).

The problem here is that I don't really see a mill as a first purchase machine as most engines have many parts requiring turning.

One thing to consider is CNC as a way of reducing the cost of iron in a shop. CNC can reduce the need for a rotary table and a lot of other hardware. Now computer control isn't the answer to every problem but it can be a smart move for some users. I know some forum members don't like CNC but it really is just another way to accomplish a goal.

Finally, from me, what support do you have? Who can you turn to, a mill guru, or a lathe guru? Support from someone who can show you is important, and I encourage you to think about this.

Well there are the people here. You are right of course a guru or simply somebody with experience can make a huge difference when it comes to grasping concepts.

It probably would have been easier for me to simply say everything above.

 

[Rob_B]

Thanks for the replies.

First, I'm glad you're taking the time to chew it all over.

I'm not always like that. But this is going to cost a lot of money and I don't want to screw it up before I even got started.

The tooling costs are equally real, and probably more diverse tools than you have realised are needed. This is presumptuous of me, I know, but you will quickly need a bunch of things, if you aim to learn to hit the mark, every time. Quality measuring tools are expensive, for one. Even the cost of stock can be surprising. And marking out a casting, for example, for machining is often a real challenge.

It isn't just precision it is also learning techniques. I'm talking everything from grinding a tool to setting up an operation.

Tooling is a killer! Of course some guys start out with more than others but starting up a shop can result in significant hand tool costs.

I had noticed how quickly it all adds up. First I looked at the cheap stuff. And after reading more about it I soon figured that wasn't going to work. And the better quality tools almost equal the cost of the machines it self.

And learning techniques should be part of the fun. Atleast that is what i'm going for.
It is about 30 years ago that I used a lathe and mill so it will take some to get back into it for sure.

Second, I would encourage you to buy just one, a lathe, or a mill. The learning curve is engaging, but still real, for you must work for precision.

Selecting between a mill and a lathe as the first purchase is difficult for some but I tend to suggest going for a lathe first. There is a lot to learn for one. Realistically though you can't start out with a mill as some key parts require a lathe. A lathe will get you started with simple engines.

I would start with a lathe, but getting both at the same time could help making a better deal.

I think I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't last long with just a lathe. Within a few months I would want a mill too.

Third, I had a mini lathe, an Emco Compact 5, 350mm between centres. Way too small. My answer to this issue: I suggest to people that they buy an industrial bench machine. Consequently, I now have a Chinese made mill-drill (dovetail column) and a 550 mm between centres lathe, also no-name.

I have read this in other threads too. Is the 350 mm between centers really "way to small" ? I have been looking at many build threads for small V8's and what I can find about crankshaft lenght doesn't exceed that. I haven't found or bought any V8 plans yet.

And if I want to go for a bigger lathe it will be a big step. The next step is 400mm/16inch and I think that is to close to the 350mm. So the next one up is 500mm/20inch and that comes as a 9x20.

For the mill, a table with 4 16mm T-slots and a weight of some 300 kg indicates that you are getting into the hitting zone, I think. (I use the mill 80% of the time.)

If you get a mill first, get a rotary table (with kit for dividing) as soon as you can: you can do a lot from here. (Use You Tube for info: not many good books around: tons of good lathe books, though).

That mill is way to heavy for me to get in the attic. Even if I take it apart it will be a real struggle.

The rotary table is already on the shopping list.

Finally, from me, what support do you have? Who can you turn to, a mill guru, or a lathe guru? Support from someone who can show you is important, and I encourage you to think about this.

Well there are the people here. You are right of course a guru or simply somebody with experience can make a huge difference when it comes to grasping concepts.

Ofcourse I'm counting on people here.

And I have a friend with some 40 years experience in metalworking.

 

[Walltoddj]

Your right about buying both for a better deal. My first set was a Bridgeport 9x49 Mill and a Brown & Sharpe 618 surface grinder for $4700 delivered. The second was a Bridgeport 9x42, 7x10 Bandsaw, Reid 6x12 surface Grinder, and my DoAll 13x60 Lahte for $7600 delivered from RI. You just have to keep looking and things turn up.

Todd

 

[Wizard69]

Thanks for the replies.


I'm not always like that. But this is going to cost a lot of money and I don't want to screw it up before I even got started.

You will have to accept some mistakes along the way.

I had noticed how quickly it all adds up. First I looked at the cheap stuff. And after reading more about it I soon figured that wasn't going to work. And the better quality tools almost equal the cost of the machines it self.

It is tough at times because you have to be fairly wealthy to buy everything at once. Do realize though that not all imported stuff is crap, sometimes the frequency of use doesn't justify top grade hardware/tools.

And learning techniques should be part of the fun. Atleast that is what i'm going for.
It is about 30 years ago that I used a lathe and mill so it will take some to get back into it for sure.



I would start with a lathe, but getting both at the same time could help making a better deal.

There is no guarantee there. If you are buying new I don't see a huge opportunity for discounts. Buying used is an exercise in exploiting opportunities as they come up.

I think I know myself well enough to know that I wouldn't last long with just a lathe. Within a few months I would want a mill too.

This is no doubt true. However in that time you should develop a better idea of what you are interested in and the compromises you are willing to make.

I have read this in other threads too. Is the 350 mm between centers really "way to small" ? I have been looking at many build threads for small V8's and what I can find about crankshaft lenght doesn't exceed that. I haven't found or bought any V8 plans yet.

That is a big and difficult question to answer. The first thing to realize is that those center to center distances are optimal measured with dead centers. Throw a live center in there, a drill chuck, or a large chuck on the spindle and your working distances evaporate fairly fast.

A V8 is rather advanced project to begin with so you might not need a "big" lathe to begin with and maybe not even for your first V8' but what about that second V8 engine.

My personal opinion is that you need to look at larger machines than you have first considered.

And if I want to go for a bigger lathe it will be a big step. The next step is 400mm/16inch and I think that is to close to the 350mm. So the next one up is 500mm/20inch and that comes as a 9x20.

Even 16" is better than nothing.

That mill is way to heavy for me to get in the attic. Even if I take it apart it will be a real struggle.

Three stories is a big climb no matter what size machine. Due to that you really need to buy or rent suitable moving equipment. If you need to do that then you might as well get what ever size mill is required.

The rotary table is already on the shopping list.

Just moving a decent size rotary table is a lot of work.

Ofcourse I'm counting on people here.

And I have a friend with some 40 years experience in metalworking.

 

[Swifty]

I'm afraid that if you are going to work in your attic, you are limited to smaller bench top machines. I just checked the weight of a 9x20 lathe and it's approx 220 lbs. without a stand, even pulling everything off it's still a difficult thing to carry up to the attic, and can the attic floor carry this weight over a small area.

Although having said that, you may be OK with the weight on the floor, as a "solid" man can weigh this much.

Paul.

 

[mechman48]

Hi
I would go for the biggest your budget, & space will allow, I am in the UK & I have the UK version of the BF20L (Grizzly 0704) mill plus Warco 250V-F (G0752 similar ?). If I'd had that bit extra finance I would have gone for the next size up on both machines but as I also needed tooling I went for what I have now, have to admit so far, both have performed admirably 'straight out of the box' after initial clean up.

George

 

[Rob_B]

Had plenty of time to think things over. At the moment I'm looking at a Myford ML7.
Maybe not the safest way to get a lathe as there are so many things to look out for. But owning a 60 year old lathe sounds cool.