Setting up Shop Questions - from an NZ learner

[joco-nz]

Spent the bulk of the day waiting for steel to cut, getting it all setup square and then welding the stuff.

The upshot is a big rectangle. Sheesh. But the effort to get it square seems to have been worth it.


Just a little bit paranoid on the internal fillet welds. Triple layered. Yes its OTT, given the weight is on the legs. But I want to make sure there was a solid chunk of metal with good penetration into the sides into those corners.


Test fitting the drip tray on top of the base rectangle. It FITS. Thank god I can measure after all. And looking around the edges everything looks to be pretty square.

 

[rodw]

I think that the videos that Rod is referring to are found here. http://techtv.mit.edu/collections/ehs-videos/videos
I watched all of these when I first started machining and found them very informative.

Thats the one, I knew somebody would know where it was! I had had a lathe for a couple of years when I watched this and it just blew me away. I made a list of all of his cool tools and a few more of my own and then slowly ticked them off. Some from Hong Kong, some from China, some from USA and some from the UK. I think I even bought a couple of bits in Australia. How he set up a milling job was really valuable.

 

[joco-nz]

Thats the one, I knew somebody would know where it was! I had had a lathe for a couple of years when I watched this and it just blew me away. I made a list of all of his cool tools and a few more of my own and then slowly ticked them off. Some from Hong Kong, some from China, some from USA and some from the UK. I think I even bought a couple of bits in Australia. How he set up a milling job was really valuable.

Yeah - starting to watch these and even the initial video with laying out has been useful. Validated some stuff I suspected and learned some stuff. Very pleased with these great resource.

 

[joco-nz]

Hi.

I need to make the adjustable foot assemblies for the lathe table. Nothing fancy here. The challenge is I do not have the 8-10mm flat bar to put the threaded hole for the bolt in and I dont fancy buying 8m of the stuff just for 200mm of used stock. However I do have a lot of 6mm stock.

What I am wondering is if, assuming a suitable means of adhesion is applied, I sandwich two 6mm layers together to create a 12mm block, will that be ok? Definately enough depth for good thread engagement. Now how to "glue" them together. Either weld all around the edge (will have to bevel the weld edges so the bead sinks in and doesn't sit on the surface) or braze them toegther perhaps after first "tinning" the mating surfaces.

What do the more experiencd heads think?

Cheers,
James.

 

[bazmak]

2 pieces with a couple of stitches around the edges.No need to prep
leave weld as laid they are not doing much excepting holding the pieces together.Try not to get too technical.If you are using the head of the bolt to sit on concrete then you need a spreader plt say 50mm dia.When a thru bolt goes thru a tapped hole rule of thumb is that the thickness should be min of bolt dia Ie m12 bolt then min 12 thk plt

 

[joco-nz]

2 pieces with a couple of stitches around the edges.No need to prep
leave weld as laid they are not doing much excepting holding the pieces together.Try not to get too technical.If you are using the head of the bolt to sit on concrete then you need a spreader plt say 50mm dia.When a thru bolt goes thru a tapped hole rule of thumb is that the thickness should be min of bolt dia Ie m12 bolt then min 12 thk plt

Cheers. I think the 12mm will be ok as part of the load is also taken by the nut used to "lock" the height position in place. For the spreader plate the 6mm steel I have will be ok? Just tack it to the bolt head on two opposite sides so a spammer will still work ok?

 

[bazmak]

You've got it .I usually put 3 tacks on a hex hd for symatry.Tack each alternate flat.Try and make do with what you have.If the plates are threaded why do you need a nut under,just screw the spreader plt up or down

 

[joco-nz]

YIf the plates are threaded why do you need a nut under,just screw the spreader plt up or down

Just didnt want the screws to move due to vibration.

 

[bazmak]

They wont.Trust me.However your reasoning is good but your lack of experience
makes/gives you a lack of confidence.Nothing wrong with what your doing
but its called over engineering.The 3 runs on the fillet weld is also not necessary.A good single 6mm fillet is stronger than the tube,which would give first under destruction test.I would only put multiple runs when the matl is thicker than the fillet size.Must say you have improved in leaps and bounds
since your first post

 

[joco-nz]

They wont.Trust me.However your reasoning is good but your lack of experience
makes/gives you a lack of confidence.Nothing wrong with what your doing
but its called over engineering.The 3 runs on the fillet weld is also not necessary.A good single 6mm fillet is stronger than the tube,which would give first under destruction test.I would only put multiple runs when the matl is thicker than the fillet size.Must say you have improved in leaps and bounds
since your first post

Over engineering - lol - my wife would say that's my middle name.

Re the welds - yeah I new I was over egging it. Just paranoia won over reason in that instance. Thanks re the improvement comment. I'm feeling more confident but still so much practice needed to be consistent.

 

[joco-nz]

After much of the day mucked up by my sons sports commitments where I ended up being the taxi I got some stuff done.

Legs cut and welded on. Much mucking about trying to get them as square as I could. I think I pretty much succeeded. At least close enough that with adjusting feet it should be fine.

I primed the weld areas with a rust guard primer so that I don't get any rust starting while I get this thing fully built. Of course I need to put some gussets on so will need to polish off some of this and then repaint. Oh well.





I just had to try the drip tray on again. :thumbup:

 

[Blogwitch]

J,

I used 16mm head down bolts for the levelling feet on my lathe, which is a little larger than yours.

I have found that the forged in writing on the bolt heads actually digs in and locks everything to the concrete floor, and like yourself, I used lock nuts as well, a belt and braces approach.
But I actually used through bolts rather than threaded into the plate, with a nut on the top to lock things up. This allowed for up and down adjustment by turning the bottom nut without turning the bolt head, as long as the top nut was loose, which was tightened up at the very end when the machine was levelled with no twist.
Not one millimetre of creep in over 6 years of use, and I am sure that I have lots more vibrations on my machine than you will most probably ever experience, as I do a fair amount of cleaning up very rough raw materials.

John

 

[joco-nz]

Thanks John. My approach (well actually Rod's) caters for the fact I don't have access to the top of the bolt as it is in the hollow of the leg. See below.

Do you have levelling bolts under the actual lathe itself or just under the legs of the stand?

Cheers,
J.

 

[rodw]

Thanks John. My approach (well actually Rod's) caters for the fact I don't have access to the top of the bolt as it is in the hollow of the leg. See below.

Do you have levelling bolts under the actual lathe itself or just under the legs of the stand?

Cheers,
J.

Another way you can do this is to just drill a clearance hole and weld a nut onto the plate inside the leg. I think you will find it really hard to physically tap M16. If you do tap the holes, make sure you drill the hole oversize (by at least 0.2mm, maybe more). Commercial bolts seem to always be 0.2 mm undersize...

 

[joco-nz]

Another way you can do this is to just drill a clearance hole and weld a nut onto the plate inside the leg. I think you will find it really hard to physically tap M16. If you do tap the holes, make sure you drill the hole oversize (by at least 0.2mm, maybe more). Commercial bolts seem to always be 0.2 mm undersize...

I'm actually thinking M12 mild steel bolts with a spreader plate welded to the the head. Given the commercial anti vibration feet with a rating well in excess of what this stand will need use M8 and I have an M12 tap I can use. M16 I would have to buy.

I had been thinking of using high tensile bolts but I understand that if you weld on to them then their strength gets impacted?

Cheers,
J.

 

[bazmak]

It is easier to drill clear holes amd weld on a nut.You don't need high tensile
the bolts are under compression.Dont overengineer
If you want to worry then think about lateral stability,and tie the bottom of the legs and add bracing

 

[Blogwitch]

J,

I actually have eight bolts as my feet and levelling devices, four on the corner of each box of the commercial stand, with 16mm holes drilled through into the boxes.
It was a bit of a task to get them all set, a couple of hours job for two people, one above watching the two levels and one below doing the spanner work.

But as I have said, nothing has moved at all in those years since it has been done.

But it will soon have to be redone as the lathe needs to be moved so that a 3ph motor can be fitted.


John

 

[joco-nz]

It is easier to drill clear holes amd weld on a nut.You don't need high tensile
the bolts are under compression.Dont overengineer
If you want to worry then think about lateral stability,and tie the bottom of the legs and add bracing

Cool - standard M12 bolts.

Stand isn't finished yet. I have still got to put in the gussets and the bracing/shelf frame. Since I found and bought a massive draw unit that takes pretty much the bulk of the width with about 256mm gap at the end, just enough for a shelf for a holder for the 200mm 4 jaw chuck and face plate.

What I am still mucking about with is if I put the bracing frame at a height to hold up the draw unit and make this small shelf (per image below) or if I suspend the draw unit and the shelf similar to what Rod did in his Aussie Shed thread and have the bracing as a big shelf at the bottom. I will ultimately have a shelf at the bottom as I want to use it for metal stock storage. Which will add some nice stabilising weight right at the bottom of the stand.

Cheers,
J.

 

[goldstar31]

M12 nuts and studding are as cheap as chips and a bit like a badger's bum but a bit cut from the family's unused silver fish knives and a plop of ant killer and spit makes remarkably good tackle for the job that is nigh enough on a dark ( k)night.

 

[bazmak]

If you have not finalised the feet yet then I would suggest that 6mm plts
with M16 nuts welded on top and drilled clear.Spreader plate to foot
and locknut as your original.If you don't tap the plates then 6mm will suffice
The bottom frame/shelf is what gives you lateral stability.Gussets or diaphragm side panels to complete