retiring to machinist

[goldstar31]

I too am having a happy day.
My bits and pieces i.e. diamond tools came from Eccentric Engineering UK to add to my AcuteT&C have arrived

It all came with a Best Wishes card for my aged and somewhat uncertain future.

Cheers


Norman

 

[L98fiero]

There are some old books that can be quite useful if you ignore their recommendations for feeds and speeds.

Another good resource is a copy of either G-Wizard G-Wizard Calculator Free Trial Signup 2020 - CNCCookbook: Be A Better CNC'er or HSM Advisor, my preference, Advanced CNC Speed And Feed Machinist Calculator - HSMAdvisor each has their strong points but I find that the feeds/speeds on HSM Advisor are more accurate, there's a huge tool library and the smartphone app you can take to the shop are very handy.

 

[Chiptosser]

MrBugBums
I would highly stress to you , even for practicing, I would not waste your money on a combo mill.
I hate to see people get discouraged with a piece of equipmet, and I belive this is what you will find.
There are a lot of things that need fine tuned on these machines to make them tallerable, I hold them in very low esteam!
As was mentioned earlier by Gordon, The Sherline combo set would be good money spent, to get experience. You could use this to get time on the smaller machines, before building your shop.
And I am positive you would never regret the experience. You may decide that the smaller stuff is more to your liking.

 

[TonySteamHobby]

I want to buy a mill is the Grizzly G0705 better then the Go704? The 05 is COLUMN Mill I have been told that I should stay away from the column mills, You have done great work with The 04 Mill should I buy the Grizzly G0704 instead of the G0705 mill????? I need help with this if you can give me the Pros and Cons Thank You If any one can help me with this decision it would be greatly appreciated.

I was space, money and power limited when I purchased my mill. Many times I wish I had a sturdier mill, especially when attacking steel. Originally the mill was purchased to support my weekend steam hobby. Now I find myself making repair parts and designing items to support my other hobbies.
When it comes to machines and tools, I agree with the sentiment here, buy good, buy once. As to a specific machine, I don’t have enough qualitative input. However, the forum suggestions steered me away from round columns.

 

[packrat]

QUOTE: I watch alot of Blondihacks, Mrpete222, Abom, Tom lipton at Oxtoolco & Joe Pieczynski . Theres also alot of folks that you DONT want to watch . Blondihacks also has a PM mill & lathe so you can watch them in action "

Yes, Blondihacks is a smart kid, using a small lathe and milling machine {import}. Her series on building a small steam engine is very good and lots of information on how she does set ups doing small work.
Joe Pieczynski is a long time real machinist, he is building the same small steam engine with a full size lathe and mill with lots of information also, with no limit on the amount of tooling available..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWOsDs_co_I&t=13s

 

[Anatol]

ditto packrat. Blondihacks is particularly good imho,and MrPete22. I'd add, for engine builders, Keith Appleton.
Regarding books, old standards like the Southbend "Running a lathe' are the best intro for the beginner. But don't imagine that watching videos and reading books will get you more than halfway. You gotta do it. I strongly suggest getting your hands on a machine in a class somewhere - continuing education or a local club? It will help you decide what sort of machinery you nee and how to judge it when you go shopping.

 

[Apprentice707]

I don't know at what standard you are at, but I find Model Engineering (A Foundation Course) by Peter Wright is a very well written book and can act as a reference for most operations you may wish to perform. It is on Amazon (USA) at $29 + postage.
Good Luck

 

[mrbugbums]

I don't know at what standard you are at, but I find Model Engineering (A Foundation Course) by Peter Wright is a very well written book and can act as a reference for most operations you may wish to perform. It is on Amazon (USA) at $29 + postage.
Good Luck

thanks just ordered it Amazon canada

 

[Paul135]

Hi Mr Bugbums,

I would absolutely agree with other members here; do not get a combination machine, you will regret it. I too used some pension money to buy my machines new, but on a small budget, but I went for the biggest I could both afford and get in my shop. Mine like most hobbyists these days I suppose they are Chinese and in my case from a UK supplier shipped to France. My own machines seem to be metric versions of the Precision Mathews PM-1127VF-LB lathe and PM25MV mill. So far they have done everything I have wanted but I have started on the upgrades now with a Chinese AXA type QCTP to fit this week. The lathe is the 1.5" bore, something I found most suppliers don't do but I particularly wanted.

In my case I am relearning in retirement as I was taught as an apprentice in the training school of a then big aerospace company on Colchester lathes and I cannot remember the milling machine names now.

Though I am happy with my machines, if I had the money and space I would have a Bridgeport mill, they are lovely to use and so versatile. When in business we needed a bigger mill for our prototype work I asked my shop foreman (an outstanding machinist) for advice and guess the answer- a Bridgeport. Well we hunted around and made visits to dealers and he checked them over and eventually selected one he reckoned was OK. It never let us down despite some play on the X axis due to wear. What I should add which may be useful to you is that it had a single phase motor and we just fitted it in an 8' high shop.

As others here have said there are Chinese and Taiwanese equivalents that are cheaper and will do the job at home very well. I have seen them advertised with single phase motors over here.
The other tool in my opinion is a must have is a bandsaw to cut off your metal. The 6x4 type gives you the vertical use as well. They are not expensive and they can give you hours of pleasure on making upgrades and accessories. These are well documented on the web.

As you seem to like tools why not make a lot of your own, many of us do. You asked about books. Well I would suggest the Workshop Practice series. Harold Hall one of the authors (and an early editor of Model Engineers Workshop magazine) has a number of books on lathework and milling plus tool sharpening etc. They are excellent. I checked your Amazon in Canada and they are available and it looks like his books are also published by a North American publisher as well and cheaper.
You will need to think about measuring equipment also. I find some really good deals on Ebay of high quality brands. The US Ebay has loads for instance. Frank Hoose's mini lathe site is also a phenomenal resource and he has YouTube videos as well. The other YouTubers mentioned are all great: I would add This Old Tony to them. On single point threading videos, I found BlondiHacks the best as whilst she is very clear, she has a typical Chinese lathe that needs change gears changing and she explains that aspect well. I have never single point cut threads since being traumatised as an apprentice. There is nothing like the sound of a big HSS cutting tool on a 1" thread exercise on a big Colchester crashing into the shoulder of the job and exploding, (we all did it)! BlondiHacks has helped treat that trauma.

Paul

 

[mrbugbums]

Thank-you Paul for the tips and encouragement.

Again I apologize to anyone who is offended by me wasting space and time here knowing as little as I do....

the problem with just getting any old or new mill cheap or not...is that its so much more than a lathe or mill. Blondie said get a lathe first.... when we move I'll get the best machine of both, but in the meantime I really want to practice...and don't mind spending a couple grand but....its more complicated due to ....so many parts that come after the main machine is bought...but as long as its compatible with the knee mill and the cx 707 that's okay right? and the other problem is finding a cheap unit that doesn't weigh a tonne.....sheesh.. feel like I can't win here. at least in the meantime I'll soon read the books you recommended. they are in the mail....amazon.ca

Yes I understand I need practice, and to find a machine and someone to teach me...covid makes that difficult. I'm so tempted to buy the cheap model but hate the reviews and all the cautions tell me how horrible they are.. the reviews even for the small $900 lathe and plastic gear!!!!!????

I was thinking about the reality of my son inheriting everything, just another reason to get the best. Once we move I'll keep my eyes out for used Bridgeports and equivalents but if I don't find one....so far the consensus here is that if I don't find awesome used ones then....

I'll get the best at the Canadian store called busy bee which has the best service and machines out of all the competition.
the cx603 for 6k. and I don't know enough about lathes to have a clue which one.

if busybee crafted isn't my best new option then..... I hope someone chimes in...They sell what is called CX Craftex.

But as I've been listening to you all and videos regarding lathes I'm still very ignorant. I apologize for wasting people's time here being someone of so little experience and appreciate the feedback. so. so far regarding lathes.....there's been a ton of advice in this thread up to now and I don't know what most of it means yet.....so far.
should I start a new thread? Lathes: like think about it....there is nowhere detailing what exactly the differences are in mills and lathes regarding the different models in respect to cutting speed, capabilities...clearly explaining the comparison of what each one can or can't do....it just seems regarding the mill. everyone is positive the smaller units are so bad at precision, chatter, speed, capability compared to the knee mill that there's no question about needing a knee mill, and so far people are saying having a small additional unit to practice with in the meantime for a mere $1000 is a complete waste of money... the reviews are horrible for them also. its just that I want to start practicing before we move and there is nobody close by and covid even forbids visiting anyone outside your personal small "circle/bubble".


I don't know what a very very clear, concise list would be for comparing mills and lathes, but I'm certain one of you could fix this list which is meant to convey my intention:


I realize that many people ask....first....what do you want to make or do? I can't answer that satisfactorily. and if you knew me then you would not even ask...maybe you won't like it or change your mind...etc...
but so far all I can say is that I'm very creative, driven, constantly making, building, doing new things all the time..
if I were to make a short list and to some the list will come across as ridiculous...I appreciate that may be true...I don't deny my ignorance in the field...
List of things I want to be capable of making.
1. Everything and anything I think of or people need. yeah pretty broad....
1. Toys, crafts, artwork. appliances, I have unique ideas of capaccino makers...
1.One off items, parts, tools for people I know that need this or that to fix this or that.....
2. Tools like that video of the guy making a machinist belt grinder.....Make lots of tools. sell tools.
3. I want to weld and build many things: fences, stairs, yard ornaments,
4. Trailers which people tow behind their vehicle.
5. A Perogie making machine.....My old stage name/ nickname was "The Perogie Pounder...." I want to machine a machine to help us make thousands of pirogies. my daughter still lives with us and we are researching building an industrial kitchen at the new home to be able to legally sell food. (pirogies)
6. Tools. lots of various tools.
7. maybe car parts but doubtful.
8, Industrial sewing machines.
9. High end guitar components: bridges, tremolo systems, tuners, pickups

Every month I have a new hobbie or two or idea I'm making/doing.

What is the difference between the models? Practically?
the lathe that has the 1 7/16th spindle bore can only spin 1800~. and the smaller ones faster...but the smaller lathes can't handle or have enough horse power for carbide cutters?

so for mills its super clear just get a knee mill...but for lathes maybe it is true one could benefit from 2 sizes? but the reviews for the $900 lathe cx 704 are really bad....

What are the most important features that a mill and lathe can do which you could make a small grid to compare different models?
so far the lists are just confusing and missing the important details....there must be a reason for that...I'm asking for too much...for example:
1. can cut hard steel at a rate of ....... and can cut so much in such and such amount of time to a precision of .001" or .01"
2. can mill a piece this wide and that tall. or a lathe can spin a piece this wide or long....

 

[cr17]

Hi : for tooling as well as Mills and lathes you should check out Cardon Tools near Perth, speak to Jason. Great family run business with great prices and very knowledgeable.

I’m in Ottawa too - perhaps after Covid we can get together and compare notes.

take care

 

[mrbugbums]

So cool. that sounds awesome Jason... will do. anytime. we live on Alta Vista drive close to Heron Ave/Baseline and Bank street just 3 blocks East. right beside the fire station on Alta Vista drive, commuting to Fairfield Hotel which is part of Queensway Carleton Hospital. looking to buy a place build..within 100km of Barrhaven where son lives....
I'll check out Cardon.
I took the machinist course at Algonquin sept to Nov and quit...it was soooooooo horribly run due to covid..but the teacher Richard Rick Laselle was and is amazing, he is still helping me with advice and emailing. a real solid guy who knows so much about machining. he taught me SolidWorks, and Metrology and Tools.

 

[Chiptosser]

You just made a comment about cutting hard steel!
Thats a totally different game!
Cutting hard steel takes different tooling and cutting technique.
Mild steel-cold roll, is considered a soft cutting steel, drill rod and tool steels have different allows.
This makes them more resistant to cutting but not hard.
You have to learn to walk before you run.

 

[Paul135]

Hi Mr Bugbums,

I would absolutely agree with other members here; do not get a combination machine, you will regret it. I too used some pension money to buy my machines new, but on a small budget, but I went for the biggest I could both afford and get in my shop. Mine like most hobbyists these days I suppose they are Chinese and in my case from a UK supplier shipped to France. My own machines seem to be metric versions of the Precision Mathews PM-1127VF-LB lathe and PM25MV mill. So far they have done everything I have wanted but I have started on the upgrades now with a Chinese AXA type QCTP to fit this week. The lathe is the 1.5" bore, something I found most suppliers don't do but I particularly wanted.

In my case I am relearning in retirement as I was taught as an apprentice in the training school of a then big aerospace company on Colchester lathes and I cannot remember the milling machine names now.

Though I am happy with my machines, if I had the money and space I would have a Bridgeport mill, they are lovely to use and so versatile. When in business we needed a bigger mill for our prototype work I asked my shop foreman (an outstanding machinist) for advice and guess the answer- a Bridgeport. Well we hunted around and made visits to dealers and he checked them over and eventually selected one he reckoned was OK. It never let us down despite some play on the X axis due to wear. What I should add which may be useful to you is that it had a single phase motor and we just fitted it in an 8' high shop.

As others here have said there are Chinese and Taiwanese equivalents that are cheaper and will do the job at home very well. I have seen them advertised with single phase motors over here.
The other tool in my opinion is a must have is a bandsaw to cut off your metal. The 6x4 type gives you the vertical use as well. They are not expensive and they can give you hours of pleasure on making upgrades and accessories. These are well documented on the web.

As you seem to like tools why not make a lot of your own, many of us do. You asked about books. Well I would suggest the Workshop Practice series. Harold Hall one of the authors (and an early editor of Model Engineers Workshop magazine) has a number of books on lathework and milling plus tool sharpening etc. They are excellent. I checked your Amazon in Canada and they are available and it looks like his books are also published by a North American publisher as well and cheaper.
You will need to think about measuring equipment also. I find some really good deals on Ebay of high quality brands. The US Ebay has loads for instance. Frank Hoose's mini lathe site is also a phenomenal resource and he has YouTube videos as well. The other YouTubers mentioned are all great: I would add This Old Tony to them. On single point threading videos, I found BlondiHacks the best as whilst she is very clear, she has a typical Chinese lathe that needs change gears changing and she explains that aspect well. I have never single point cut threads since being traumatised as an apprentice. There is nothing like the sound of a big HSS cutting tool on a 1" thread exercise on a big Colchester crashing into the shoulder of the job and exploding, (we all did it)! BlondiHacks has helped treat that trauma.

Paul

Thank-you Paul for the tips and encouragement.

Again I apologize to anyone who is offended by me wasting space and time here knowing as little as I do....

the problem with just getting any old or new mill cheap or not...is that its so much more than a lathe or mill. Blondie said get a lathe first.... when we move I'll get the best machine of both, but in the meantime I really want to practice...and don't mind spending a couple grand but....its more complicated due to ....so many parts that come after the main machine is bought...but as long as its compatible with the knee mill and the cx 707 that's okay right? and the other problem is finding a cheap unit that doesn't weigh a tonne.....sheesh.. feel like I can't win here. at least in the meantime I'll soon read the books you recommended. they are in the mail....amazon.ca

Yes I understand I need practice, and to find a machine and someone to teach me...covid makes that difficult. I'm so tempted to buy the cheap model but hate the reviews and all the cautions tell me how horrible they are.. the reviews even for the small $900 lathe and plastic gear!!!!!????

I was thinking about the reality of my son inheriting everything, just another reason to get the best. Once we move I'll keep my eyes out for used Bridgeports and equivalents but if I don't find one....so far the consensus here is that if I don't find awesome used ones then....

I'll get the best at the Canadian store called busy bee which has the best service and machines out of all the competition.
the cx603 for 6k. and I don't know enough about lathes to have a clue which one.

if busybee crafted isn't my best new option then..... I hope someone chimes in...They sell what is called CX Craftex.

But as I've been listening to you all and videos regarding lathes I'm still very ignorant. I apologize for wasting people's time here being someone of so little experience and appreciate the feedback. so. so far regarding lathes.....there's been a ton of advice in this thread up to now and I don't know what most of it means yet.....so far.
should I start a new thread? Lathes: like think about it....there is nowhere detailing what exactly the differences are in mills and lathes regarding the different models in respect to cutting speed, capabilities...clearly explaining the comparison of what each one can or can't do....it just seems regarding the mill. everyone is positive the smaller units are so bad at precision, chatter, speed, capability compared to the knee mill that there's no question about needing a knee mill, and so far people are saying having a small additional unit to practice with in the meantime for a mere $1000 is a complete waste of money... the reviews are horrible for them also. its just that I want to start practicing before we move and there is nobody close by and covid even forbids visiting anyone outside your personal small "circle/bubble".


I don't know what a very very clear, concise list would be for comparing mills and lathes, but I'm certain one of you could fix this list which is meant to convey my intention:


I realize that many people ask....first....what do you want to make or do? I can't answer that satisfactorily. and if you knew me then you would not even ask...maybe you won't like it or change your mind...etc...
but so far all I can say is that I'm very creative, driven, constantly making, building, doing new things all the time..
if I were to make a short list and to some the list will come across as ridiculous...I appreciate that may be true...I don't deny my ignorance in the field...
List of things I want to be capable of making.
1. Everything and anything I think of or people need. yeah pretty broad....
1. Toys, crafts, artwork. appliances, I have unique ideas of capaccino makers...
1.One off items, parts, tools for people I know that need this or that to fix this or that.....
2. Tools like that video of the guy making a machinist belt grinder.....Make lots of tools. sell tools.
3. I want to weld and build many things: fences, stairs, yard ornaments,
4. Trailers which people tow behind their vehicle.
5. A Perogie making machine.....My old stage name/ nickname was "The Perogie Pounder...." I want to machine a machine to help us make thousands of pirogies. my daughter still lives with us and we are researching building an industrial kitchen at the new home to be able to legally sell food. (pirogies)
6. Tools. lots of various tools.
7. maybe car parts but doubtful.
8, Industrial sewing machines.
9. High end guitar components: bridges, tremolo systems, tuners, pickups

Every month I have a new hobbie or two or idea I'm making/doing.

What is the difference between the models? Practically?
the lathe that has the 1 7/16th spindle bore can only spin 1800~. and the smaller ones faster...but the smaller lathes can't handle or have enough horse power for carbide cutters?

so for mills its super clear just get a knee mill...but for lathes maybe it is true one could benefit from 2 sizes? but the reviews for the $900 lathe cx 704 are really bad....

What are the most important features that a mill and lathe can do which you could make a small grid to compare different models?
so far the lists are just confusing and missing the important details....there must be a reason for that...I'm asking for too much...for example:
1. can cut hard steel at a rate of ....... and can cut so much in such and such amount of time to a precision of .001" or .01"
2. can mill a piece this wide and that tall. or a lathe can spin a piece this wide or long....

Don't worry about asking questions, we all have to start from somewhere! If you want to practice and still have a useful lathe that will be complementary to whatever you eventually buy, think about a mini lathe. They are popular with plenty of info on the net and lots of mods can be done to them which will build up your machining capability. Some users have them in the house so they can still do some machining when they are ill or it is too cold to work in the shed. Some users have them in the house anyway with a mini workshop in a spare room. As they are fairly portable you could use one now and easily take with you to your new place.

Mike Cox has a very useful site where he shows what he has done to his mini-lathe and other tools mikesworkshop He has also contributed quite a few articles to Model Engineers Workshop magazine. As I said earlier Frank Hoose is the other big source of info for mini lathes on his site and Youtube.

Paul

 

[animal12]

You may look and see if there is a makerspace in your neck of the woods . The ones I have seen have a small machine shop & have/give lessons on machine work , mostly starting with safety & them moving on to how to make chips & you get to use that machines anytime no one is using them of has them reserved .
If you want a good quality mill don't be stuck on a BP , I would also look real hard at a Index mill . I've been many shope without BP's but there ia a group of Index's . I almost got one that was in my price range but I couldn't get it out of the guy's shop in time , major bummer !!
animal

 

[awake]

#2 on an Index - they are widely considered to be better than a Bridgeport.

I understand your desire to go ahead and get something now that is small enough to move around, and then add the larger machines later. Like others, I would strongly encourage you not to go the typical 3-in-1 route (especially not the Harbor Freight or similar low-end import variety). Smithy probably has the best reputation of the 3-in-ones, and certainly is the most expensive ... but it cannot escape the compromises that come with the design.

Note that there are one or two combo machines that have a good reputation, such as the Emco Maximat. (Here is an example - no affiliation, just the first one that came up in a search: Emco-Maier MAXIMAT Super 11 lathe mill combo Excellent condition | eBay). These use a different design than the 3-in-ones; essentially, they are a well designed lathe first, but add a milling column behind the lathe bed. Finding one that is affordable may be a challenge. I've not used one personally, but from everything I've ever heard or read, this would be the way I would try to go if I wanted / needed a combo machine.

But let me also echo something that has been said a couple of times above: Take a hard look at the Sherline (and the similar Taig). These are very small, but extremely well made. Many folks have made many engines on these types of machines. And here's the payoff: they seem to hold their value well, so if you later decide you don't need them, you can get most of your money back when you sell them.

 

[goldstar31]

One of the most desirable 'combination' lathes was the Murad 'Bormilathe.
Surprisingly, there is the lesser Antarctica for sale at a ridiculous cheap price. I sort of suggested to a member here as an alternative to a very inferior Myford ML7 which would probably merit a 'slides way grind' on a VERY good machine done by an even better machine restorr.

The nearest to the which I have got th the Bormilathe is my almost as new Myford Super7 with gearbox and power cross feed bt with a copy of the Potts vertical slide with a built in dividing head of 9 holes. Actually, it IS Potts castings but probably built in a very good- nay-- wonderful shop of dedicated craftsmen. OK it now has a dedicated DRO.
The price is or was 'tres interssant'

 

[packrat]

goldstar31..I was just going to say that the poster interested in machinist tools lathe/milling machine could start out with smaller lathe like a Myford ML7
but you people in the UK have a lot more small lathes than we do here in the USA, but poster is from Canada so do not know there situation.??
I my self started out with Atlas 6 inch lathe and have moved on to South Bends and Bridgeport type milling machine {clone} {you have also helped me with a Myford ML7 that I found here in the USA}

 

[animal12]

if I was real serious about having a combo machine I would get one of these . There were several of this type made at one time

animal

 

[Chiptosser]

Holy s*&^ Batman!