India Tools

[jack620]

I have an M9x1 Dormer brand tap made in India. It's superb. I used to tap holes in titanium which is horrid stuff to tap.
On the other hand I have an Indian made countersink which I'm not impressed with.

 

[Peter Murphy]

I suppose that most 'advanced' cuntries have something similar to the British 'Sale of Goods Act' and deals with things like goods not being of 'Merchantable quality'. Yes, instead of being an 'engineer'. I did Commercial Studies.

So why wasn't the seller taken to task for his responsibility un the unsatisfactory sale?

He never replied & I was too late for PayPal. All I wanted was a replacement gear sent out, I would have rebuilt it. I had only used it a few times for bolt hole circles & this was the 1st time I used it as a rotary milling table, milling an arc with a 6mm HSS cutter in 2mm thick aluminium. It stopped rotating via the handle, so I finished the cut with a 12" bar to rotate the table.

 

[goldstar31]

He never replied & I was too late for PayPal. All I wanted was a replacement gear sent out, I would have rebuilt it. I had only used it a few times for bolt hole circles & this was the 1st time I used it as a rotary milling table, milling an arc with a 6mm HSS cutter in 2mm thick aluminium. It stopped rotating via the handle, so I finished the cut with a 12" bar to rotate the table.

Peter
Who says PayPal is the 'be all and end all' of Australian jurisprudence?

I was brought up to appreciate those time immortal words--- What does the Law say?

Best Wishes

Norman

 

[Peter Murphy]

Peter
Who says PayPal is the 'be all and end all' of Australian jurisprudence?

I was brought up to appreciate those time immortal words--- What does the Law say?

Best Wishes

Norman

Hi Norman,
I tried to get some justice, in the end I put it aside & will make another gear & make it better, as we do Lol.
Stay Safe.
Peter

 

[goldstar31]

Hi Norman,
I tried to get some justice, in the end I put it aside & will make another gear & make it better, as we do Lol.
Stay Safe.
Peter

Ah well, Peter!
I spent years in court prosecuting for my firm. Never lost a case

And then there is that lovely act with the Indian( and others) fraternity of 'Taking salt'.
Best Wishes

Norman

 

[Hrcoleman66]

When did this happen? did you let them know the condition? That really sux. I am hoping that like all the developing countries, or the ones that have already developed (Japan, Korea, Taiwan) that started out with pert near krap, but kept going and started doing better work and better quality, Am hoping the same for India. I don't want to support China anymore, but I will for the foreseeable future--just looking for alternatives.

PS. I'm wondering if those dinosaur looking lathes they have in India are better than they look or as bad as they look.

It was a few years ago. Probably five maybe. I did let them know, but as has been my experience with India based vendors I didn’t get a very satisfactory response... in the end, I gave appropriate negative feedback... what more can you do short of returning the item.

Later, I spent six months living in India (Pune) investigating low cost tool manufacturing. I found some interesting things about how tools and machines are made there and my experience there was invaluable. But I will still go to China for “affordable” tools before I try India again. India manufacturing is still decades behind China. Even the best manufacturers in India can’t hope to compete quality wise.

The problem is that the market in India is not very demanding of quality. And so the many hundreds of tool manufacturers there don’t have to try very hard to compete.

I’ll give you an example. Two wheeler service garages in India buy cheap tools to service scooters and bikes. But they go through a few of these tools each year, because the heat treatment if there at all is cr@p and the tools just wear out. I was meeting with a service manager and he was complaining about a particular tool. I asked him what it cost and he said 200 rupees (all tools cost 200 rupees). That’s about 3 USD. I said to him, so you pay 1000 - 1200 rupees a year for this tool. Would you be prepared to pay 1000 rupees for a tool that lasted two years? He said yes, but his manager would never let him. The market says, a tool costs 200 rupees. I did some searching. Every vendor has the 200 rupee tool. But a 1000 rupee high quality tool is just not available in India no matter how hard you look.

I suspect that heat treatment will be the killer for any Indian made machine tool. At this stage, I would not be buying a machine tool made there.

Maybe you have philosophical reasons for not wanting to go to China for tools or machines, but I have friends and business colleagues there and over the years have developed good relationships with them. I’ll continue to support those individual firms.

Cheers,

Hugh

 

[OrangeAlpine]

I bought a made in India 6" rotary table from an Ebay supplier who has been around for several years and has an inhouse brand of tools. I am very impressed. Extensive machine finish and everything works very smoothly with no slop. I have used it a couple of times, no complaints. It may not be accurate down to 1/1000 of gnats ass, but for home shop use that is not necessary. How it would hold up in commercial use is not only unknown, but vastly unimportant. A good, usable tool for a reasonable (not the cheapest) price that will meet my needs for years.

A word of caution. Things are very crowded on this tool. You cannot just throw things together and expect perfect performance. Take care when mounting the chuck and other accessories, making sure everything clears during full rotation. I imagine this is an issue with almost any smallish rotary table.

I think a buyer who traffics with merchandisers offering machine tools along with sewing machines and blenders are asking for problems.

Bill

 

[jwills8606]

A couple of observations: My undergraduate training is in electrical engineering, and I just retired from a 40-year medical practice, so I have had a great deal of interaction with Indian doctors and engineers. I found them without exception lovely human beings - friendly, thoughtful, hardworking, and SMART! Secondly, I have recently become "woke" to the threats that communists, socialists, and the like present to my country, so I am always looking for alternatives to Chinese goods, and while Indian machine tools are often not the best, I lean that way, since American-made tools are just so DARNED expensive. Thirdly, farmers in my area have gravitated in droves to Indian-made Mahindra farm machinery and without exception praise the value-per-dollar and the ruggedness. Right now I'm looking for a decent milling machine, and I'm looking first at Indian-made.

 

[WOB]

None of the comments in this thread re Indian tool quality surprises me. India was a major supplier of hobby grade tools BC ( before China) back in the 80's when I first got into the home machine shop hobby. Pakistan was also a supplier. Both exported crap as described above. I quit buying their stuff early on because of many bad experiences. Things were tough back then because there was no Internet and paper catalogs were the sole source of market info. Imagine how it was with no ebay and no Amazon.

It seems China has since taken over the hobby export market with maybe some improvement in general quality.

 

[goldstar31]

Slightly out of context but my professional electrical engineer who has been wiring for me has had THREE electricians tool folders whilst I have \binned' about 50 assorted worn out screwdrivers.

All this made me think more and more of the words cost overall and quality.

OK, I have three battery drills- all Chinese and from the same German supermarket. Each has a THREE year unconditional warranty.

Sometime ago, my then computer ceased to function. I'd lost my receipt but the purchase was traced and - I got ALL my money back.

For the record, I have one E-bay purchase and NO Paypal-- in my lifetime.
I got a £100 Clarkson tool and cutter grinder. Yes £100 and paid in cash. No, I tell a lie--- I got a free magnetic chuck as a gift.
I studied Commerce- not engineering.

 

[Nikhil Bhale]

Hi
I am from India and just starting out in this hobby.
But I too have a Chinese Sieg lathe.
And most of the tools I have were purchased on AliExpress.

Some of good INDIAN manufacturers may be
Industrial Tools Manufacturers India - Shobha Industries SOBA brand chucks and vises.
Welcome to Zither Chuck Lathe chucks
Buy Industrial and Business Supplies - MRO Products, Tools, Equipment and more gereral industrial supplier

One problem with not buying Indian tools is most Indian manufacturers do not have presence in the cyber world.
I live in a place which is mostly farm country and no industry. So no industrial suppliers here.
I can buy my tools from Amazon which are Chinese import or directly from Aliexpress which is cheaper.
Or if I buy from above mentioned site I have to get it in quantity which I dont want.

jwills8606

I was planning to buy this milling machine, but it is too heavy for me and may buy SX2.7 instead.
https://ravimachines.com/product/banka-38-drilling-cum-milling-machine/

Rgrds
Nikhil

 

[awake]

Hi Nikhil,

Where in India do you live? I visited in Kerala a few years ago, and part of what I learned on that visit is just how big and diverse India is!!

 

[Hrcoleman66]

India sure is big! My comments about my time there and what I saw regarding tool quality were not meant to be negative. Just observations. The market provides what the market demands. And the huge domestic market in India wants the low cost option.

The few CNC Machining centres I saw in Pune factories were Taiwanese/Chinese made. The lathes were all older style with exposed change gears. I cant recall seeing a CNC Lathe in any of the factories I visited.

We had the option of visiting a manufacturer in the Punjab, but four days of traveling just to visit one factory was really not practical (we sent one person instead of ythe whole team). As it turned out the perceived high quality of the tools that they produced was purely cosmetic. The problem again was the lack of heat treatment. The fact that the manufacturer was operating out of a domestic residence... ahem...

Cheers,

Hugh

 

[Richard Hed]

My Indian 5MK test bar amazingly has three distinctly different axes. One for the tapered part, one for the cylindrical part and one for the two centre holes on the ends. I can see no use for it, and I wonder how they managed to make it like that!

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh. The tool I bought has all the important planes and right angles correct and well ground, the rest looks like a kids work.

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Hugh,
Mine was the same rubbish, sheared the pin off for the table gear 1st time I used it as a rotary milling table, milling an arc. I finished the job by using a bar to turn it as I was only milling some thin aluminium. When I pulled it apart I found the gear was not round & therefore was stripping the teeth on one side. I eventually replaced it with a Vertex (Taiwanese), much better.
India need to get their act together as there is an opportunity to take alot of China's business.
Cheers,
Peter from Australia

Yes, that's what I'm thimking, I just don't want to get burnt buying the krap side of it.

 

[Nikhil Bhale]

Hi Nikhil,

Where in India do you live? I visited in Kerala a few years ago, and part of what I learned on that visit is just how big and diverse India is!!

Hi,
I live in Vidharba region of Maharashtra state. We do not get many tourists here, although we have tiger reserves here.
We get some Britishers every year who come to pay homage to their fallen relatives who died in the battle of Argoan. Battle of Argaon - Wikipedia

 

[L98fiero]

The few CNC Machining centres I saw in Pune factories were Taiwanese/Chinese made. The lathes were all older style with exposed change gears. I cant recall seeing a CNC Lathe in any of the factories I visited.

Here in Canada, many of the older CNCs are being bought up by people exporting our 'junk' to India, in India they'll rebuild the machine, replace the controls if required and they're back in business, basically they buy the equipment we won't spend the money on repairing. I've seen them cut the bolts of a 1500 ton press with a cutting torch, they'll worry about assembly in India. They do pay better than scrap value though(a little).

 

[BaronJ]

Here in Canada, many of the older CNCs are being bought up by people exporting our 'junk' to India, in India they'll rebuild the machine, replace the controls if required and they're back in business, basically they buy the equipment we won't spend the money on repairing. I've seen them cut the bolts of a 1500 ton press with a cutting torch, they'll worry about assembly in India. They do pay better than scrap value though(a little).

Its not too long ago that there were a group of Indians going around the midlands visiting all and any factories and engineering establishments just buying any machine tools dead or not, containerising them and shipping them back to India.

 

[awake]

Hi,
I live in Vidharba region of Maharashtra state. We do not get many tourists here, although we have tiger reserves here.
We get some Britishers every year who come to pay homage to their fallen relatives who died in the battle of Argoan. Battle of Argaon - Wikipedia

Near Satupura reserve? Or Melghat? Or am I looking in the wrong part of Maharashtra?

The next time I go to India, I hope I can visit more than just the Kerala area - I'd like to see more of the country, and taste more of the regional foods. (I LOVE the food!!!)

 

[Hrcoleman66]

I think Vidharba is northern Maharashtra if I'm not mistaken. It was a plan of mine while I was in Pune to visit a tiger sanctuary, but I quickly learned that what might be a reasonably travellable distance in half a day here in Australia, was generally a 2-3 day journey in India. A visit to a factory in Belbaum (Just south of the border in Karnataka state (339 Km) saw us leave Pune at 4.30 in the morning, spend an hour at the factory, then arrive back in Pune at 1.30 the following morning.
Conversely, I flew from Pune to Bangalor to visit the TVS training centre (the other side of Bangalor from the airport (2,200 Rupee Uber trip)) and got back to Pune again in less than 8 hours. Go figure.
Funny story. Sitting in the "Indigo" A380 on the tarmac in Bangalor waiting for my flight back to Pune, middle of June, Christmas carols playing over the PA, I looked across to the other side of the cabin just in time to witness the internal window frame fall out into the window seat on the other side of the aisle. The confluence of events did not make me feel at all well... Especially since I had spent the previous week suffering the only bout of "Delhi Belly" that I experienced in my time in India...
As it happened, we got back safely to Pune albeit with the roughest landing I've ever experienced anywhere in the world.

I miss India. What a place. Nothing works at it should, but somehow, everything works.

After the Coronavirus thing is over. I want to go back.

Cheers,

Hugh