New Quorn Build (question)

[Mac McCaskie]

According to "Internet Quorn Lore" I am now a member of the "I'm building a Quorn" club since it isn't required to actually have done anything yet. I hope I will get into the "I built a Quorn" club sooner rather than later.

Here's my question: The book suggests using Precision Ground rods for the two base shafts and the vertical shaft where the motor/grinder is mounted (and that is just chapter one so far). The least expensive rods I can find are from https://store.diesupplies.com/precision-marshall-drill-rod-c38.aspx, I've purchased W-1 from them recently and have been happy with what they sent me.

For now, it's between W-1 and O-1 rods (1.0" and 1.25"). Can anyone offer opinions or suggestions which of these two, or another option altogether, this amateur might go with? I'd like to reduce corrosion if possible with out too much expense.

 

[goldstar31]

Initially, I discount this 'too much expensive' concept when embarking on a Quorn.
If you have little or no experience with one, start following the happy discourse between Baron and myself about DUST. You CAN use precicion ground stainless for the 1" bed bars but you might benefit with longer ones. The vertical 1.25" 1" spiral can be ordinary mild steel but the hard job is how to cut the 1" TPI thread.
Doing the bed bars which amounts to three castings, you really need an in line boring bar and on this topic, you would be well advised to consult Geo Thomas's Model Engineers Workshop Manual---- and pay for the damned thing( I'm on my 2nd one)

The next bete noir is the spindle and as I wrote to John Baron, there is at least three variants of the 1" 'cartridge'. The Stent ones and those for the primitive Kennet will all suffice but my knowledge on Harpreet's? one is the square root of bugger all. I have all three on various grinders.

Doing the rotary table does suggest Thomas's idea for his small rotary table rather than having a quite ugly Chaddock affair( which I foolishly made)

As for ball handles which reminds me of shaking hands with an octopus, I would with hindsight and a bit more folding stuff, but Bristol clamps!

Again, my tool holder is classic 1 and 2 Morse taper and with that wonderful thing called hindsight, I'd now settle for a decent collet set.

My views but whether I'm a member of that 'elite band' I neither know nor care.

I wish you well

Norman

 

[Charles Lamont]

You don't need to use drill rod. Sometimes it is not particularly round anyway as it is normally centreless ground, which can result in lobing.

You should be able to get precision ground mild steel (PGMS). It will be as good or better for the purpose and will cost less.
I bought some PGMS in other sizes to use for the multitude of other parts where bar-stock is used at supplied size.

I am a definite member of the club as I have fettled, sandblasted and primed all the castings, and rough machined one of the column collars.
10 years ago. Other projects have intervened and the Quorn currently lies at No 8.

 

[Charles Lamont]

On the corrosion question, you can get chrome plated bar. The stuff used for making hydraulic cylinder rams is not that expensive, but I don't know how accurate it is. I would not use austenitic stainless for the bed bars as I think it might be a problem with the abrasive dust.

 

[retailer]

I've just finished a Quorn only a few months ago and generally went with the defaults as Prof. Chaddock intended, the two bars are precision ground MS, I appreciate you are concerned about corrosion but by the time you have finished you will see there is a reasonable amount of unprotected steel in the build so it is no worse than say a lathe bed, if you can cope with keeping corrosion off your lathe then the Quorn should not present a problem, I just cover mine with an old bath towel, it's enough to prevent condensation settling on it.

With regard to the vertical 1.25" bar I believe this is available from an Australian supplier with the spiral already cut for $AU50, http://www.hobbymechanics.com.au/quorn-cutter-grinder/ as the exchange rate goes in your favour the price would be around US$35 or so plus shipping, if I had known about this I would have just paid the $50 rather than spend a few days rigging up a geared drive on my manual mill, it might be worth an email to see if they ship overseas.

Building a Quorn is not hard if you take care, it is a long project though and at times seems like it will never end, just when it looks like you are almost finished you suddenly realise you haven't finished this or that. A word about the motor, I am using a 220Watt 240v motor that is only just powerful enough, after I mounted the motor and fitted the switch gear etc, I saw on Gumtree a small tile cutter with 375W motor for $20 these motors spin at 2800 rpm which is perfect, in addition they have a switch already mounted so no need to to wire things up just strip the motor out and mount it and you are ready to go.

 

[goldstar31]

I've just found my copy of Walter B Mueller's 'A Very Much Improved' Quorn Tool and cutter grinder.

So once you have built the beast( Actually I've almost forgotten) there is futher improvement.

With wet and dry macular degeneration, reading has been almost impossible but having been whipped in for eyeball injections things are a bit clearer. Then a kind hospital found me a 3.5X LED magnifier to use with my bifocals.

Must be my birthday

Norm

 

[Mac McCaskie]

Happy Birthday Norm! Good luck with the eyesight, my late wife battled a similar problem due to diabetes and I know it's a struggle. I'll see if I can find Walter B Mueller's 'A Very Much Improved' Quorn T&C cutter. BTW: how does one become a Haggis Breeder?

Thanks to everyone for the reply's. I'm now looking at 1018(?) cold finished steel.

Retailer, I think of myself a recovering hoarder. Your tile cutter suggestion made real my fear of "If I throw something out I will need it the next week." Just last week I donated a wet tile cutter to re-store (a Habitat for Humanity store). Maybe they still have it and I can buy it back for the motor?

 

[goldstar31]

Haggis? You have to catch them first. They have two short legs to run around Scottish mountains and they can be caught- on the way back.
My sight problems? Old age and 89 years of undetected crime!
And so to motors!!!!
Mine was running with a British 1/4 HP 1440rpm ex washing machine motor- with a pulley pushing up the revs. One day, I saw an ad for a homemade t&C for £100 and it was local and I came home with a 2880 rpm motor with a fabricated Stent fastened to it!
So my Quorn motor came from one of these fractional motors geared down in two stages to lift and lower garage doors in homes--- and I simply dumped the gears.
Maybe you have something similar.

Regarding the 'A Very much Improved Quorn Tool and Cutter' series of 4 articles I had them from one American mag( and I have forgotten which) but for assistance, I Googled the words within in the asterisks and up it came for you to do the same and to print out.
So apart from my account on breeding, you have a fairly truthful account.

Forgive me, but there is a series of Model Engineer articles by an Australian/New Zealand writer- and I wrote the details for others in the Quorn Owners 'thingamajig'
Whether they followed up, remains a minor mystery.

Amongst my forays, I bid a ridiculous £100 for a Clarkson Mk1, won it, collected it and came home with the thing minus the too heavy stand and an electromagnetic chuck.
Another foray- just a slingshot from the Roman Wall and I came back to my haggis who were missing me with a Kennet tool and cutter grinder- and all the drawings. Heaven knows how little I paid because I got a set of Myford imperial collets etc and a Pultra 10
in two halves but a lovely set of collets.

So I still have a set of Kennet drawings- and as they are copyright, will not be copied
Honestly, II have never been able fathom why the Quorn and the Kennet castings etc simply disappeared in the UK.

So I hope my rather long discourse eventually points you in the right direction.

Norm

 

[goldstar31]

The Mueller articles are in Home Shop Machinist 1999-2000

I've been reading them and an air spindle and a Wilson T&C is beneficial.

Cheers

N

 

[retailer]

Check out this post:- https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/sharpening-end-mills-on-new-set-up.31251/

forum member doc1955 is demonstrating his endmill sharpening setup with air spindle in use, looks to work really well.

 

[nel2lar]

Happy Birthday Norm! Good luck with the eyesight, my late wife battled a similar problem due to diabetes and I know it's a struggle. I'll see if I can find Walter B Mueller's 'A Very Much Improved' Quorn T&C cutter. BTW: how does one become a Haggis Breeder?

Thanks to everyone for the reply's. I'm now looking at 1018(?) cold finished steel.

Retailer, I think of myself a recovering hoarder. Your tile cutter suggestion made real my fear of "If I throw something out I will need it the next week." Just last week I donated a wet tile cutter to re-store (a Habitat for Humanity store). Maybe they still have it and I can buy it back for the motor?

Mac
I have the files you are looking for, shoot me and email and I'll send it to you.
Nelson

 

[goldstar31]

I've been in Quorn country for a very very long time and rather like the relatively simple approach of a Professor of Engineering and one who was 'in on the atom bomb' introduced very simple construction methods and at the end of the day produced such a complicated engine!
If one starts to examine Mueller, he initially introduces a lump of 12 x8? by 3/8 chunk of steel as a base whilst Chaddock suggests carrying the Quorn outside to avoid filling the workshop with damaging grit.

Me, I haven't the strength to cart a Mueller version into the fresh air.
Do I whimsically go on to say that apart from my vast age that I'm also a COPD sufferer?

Norm

 

[G54AUST]

Hey Guys.

Thought I might chime in on this one.

Empteen dozen year ago (metric) I started building a Quorn from the book by Prof Chaddock. Commencing with the wheel head, this was most satisfactorily finished and has been a boon for a multitude of tasks. From cylindrical and surface grinding to trueing chuck jaws. I made the spindle to an amended design I was given, with angular contact (AC) bearings back to back in the front end and a preloaded bearing (O rings) on the "floating" end. An upy/downy switch (forward and reverse) is mounted on the motor for direction of the spindle.

After building the wheel head, I decided to enlarge the project by about 25% so I could fit in larger reamers etc. Despite also being a Patternmaker, I commenced fabricating the necessary pieces from bar stock. These were recently restarted and fabrication continues.

I purchased Hard Chrome Bar of 30mm dia for both the bedways. These are nominal 500mm long so it will be the "long bed" version. This is the material you use for running LM series linear bearings on. Hard as the hobs of Hell, is usually cut to length with an abrasive cut off saw. The chromed layer is about 65HRC and about 2mm thick. HSS blades tend to bounce off this stuff.

The vertical rear bar will be Dia 35mm Hard Chrome Bar with a clamp on height adjuster of some 30mm travel. No need to thread the bar.

I have purchased a 150 long ER25 collet chuck from 'the bay of Eness' for an enlarged wheel head. Grinding wheels are to be permanently mounted on arbors with a Dia 16 by 30 long shaft. These will be gripped by a 16mm ER25 collet. In the design phase presently.

A three phase 1/4 or 1/3 HP motor will be purchased and run through an invertor. Three phase motors are easier to balance.

Might try to upload some pix if anyone's interested.



Kind Regards,

Trevor,
Melbourne, AU.

 

[nel2lar]

Trevor
I would be very interested in any of your projects.
Happy machining.
Nelson

 

[G54AUST]

Hey Nelson.

I'll go and charge the camera.

I am also contemplating using my "Quorn" wheel head design on a Cam/cylindrical grinder project for camshafts and cranks etc in the near future. Scaled down petrol (gasoline) engines etc. Been a few good threads on Cam Grinders over the last 10ish years which I've read with interest.

Spent about 30 years doing Special Purpose Machines for the automotive and construction industries so should be able to knock over a grinder fairly readily. Automotive industry here is now dead and gone. One of my car is the last of the all Australian built vehicles produced here. Absolute crying shame. Visions of Detroit ???


Kind Regards,

Trevor,
Melbourne, AU.

 

[Mark Duquette]

Trevor,

Just thought you would be interested in what I am making for cam and crank grinding. This is CNC with a CNC controlled dresser.

Mark

PS yes I am also working on a Quorn

 

[G54AUST]

@ Mark Dequette.

OOOooo. Yes. Tell us more Mark.

Could be a good plan to open a new thread for cam/crank grinder. We should liase more on this …..


Kind Regards,

Trevor,
Melbourne, AU.

 

[swarfdoctor]

Haggis? You have to catch them first. They have two short legs to run around Scottish mountains and they can be caught- on the way back.
My sight problems? Old age and 89 years of undetected crime!
And so to motors!!!!
Mine was running with a British 1/4 HP 1440rpm ex washing machine motor- with a pulley pushing up the revs. One day, I saw an ad for a homemade t&C for £100 and it was local and I came home with a 2880 rpm motor with a fabricated Stent fastened to it!
So my Quorn motor came from one of these fractional motors geared down in two stages to lift and lower garage doors in homes--- and I simply dumped the gears.
Maybe you have something similar.

Regarding the 'A Very much Improved Quorn Tool and Cutter' series of 4 articles I had them from one American mag( and I have forgotten which) but for assistance, I Googled the words within in the asterisks and up it came for you to do the same and to print out.
So apart from my account on breeding, you have a fairly truthful account.

Forgive me, but there is a series of Model Engineer articles by an Australian/New Zealand writer- and I wrote the details for others in the Quorn Owners 'thingamajig'
Whether they followed up, remains a minor mystery.

Amongst my forays, I bid a ridiculous £100 for a Clarkson Mk1, won it, collected it and came home with the thing minus the too heavy stand and an electromagnetic chuck.
Another foray- just a slingshot from the Roman Wall and I came back to my haggis who were missing me with a Kennet tool and cutter grinder- and all the drawings. Heaven knows how little I paid because I got a set of Myford imperial collets etc and a Pultra 10
in two halves but a lovely set of collets.

So I still have a set of Kennet drawings- and as they are copyright, will not be copied
Honestly, II have never been able fathom why the Quorn and the Kennet castings etc simply disappeared in the UK.

So I hope my rather long discourse eventually points you in the right direction.

Norm

 

[swarfdoctor]

Hi Norm and all on the quorn issue.
I spent most of my career working in medicine but RC model aircraft was always a hobby. I had an old Myford ML7 and used it to make lots of bits and pieces for my models but a RC friend who is a proper engineer encouraged me to try to build my own engines. He has made Whittles V8 and it sounds superb. I have a quorn and living in Derbyshire UK was able to go to Eckington to get castings from Ivan Law who ran MES and later his son supplied castings but now I'm led to believe Hemingway Kits can supply them, with a set of castings and Prof.Chaddocks book making a quorn is doable. Not sure if they supply Kennet castings/drawings. The quorn is very useful for grinding lathe tools,milling cutters and I have made an attachment to allow me to use the work head on the lathe for centre grinding.
Hope this is useful Joe(swarfdoctor)

 

[goldstar31]

Thanks Dr Joe!
As far as I am aware Hemingwaykits doesn't supply either the Quorn or Kennet drawings or castings. I have the drawings of the Kennet and the made up Kennet as well as an early MK1 Quorn. It maybe that Mr Burswell has the Ivan Law stuff but he is pushing the fabricated Worden which arguably is cheaper and easier to make- and ? Sell.

Shame really. Digressing, I have a MES Rotary table but it has a broken gear which could do with replacing.

Actually, for a very basic and easily set up tool and cutter grinder, the MES Kennet is a delight to have. I suspect from the photos that Dr Bill Bennett BDS( Dunelm) had, Geo Thomas had a Kennet but with a grinder rather than the 1" simplified cartridge spindle.
It's in Workshop Techniques book.

So who has what remains a mystery.

Coming into the 21st century, I'm still trying to make sense of the RDG Deckel clone.
Perhaps, it would be interesting to get an account of actual Quorn usage as I seemed to have encountered so many people who seem to treat Quorns as Graven Images rather than what they were designed for.

Thanks for your refreshing input.

Norm