Mery 6-stroke kit.

[PhilL]

Sorry, was on vaca last week and interwebs was not a priority.
That pulley did come out nice.
The picture is what I thought you were describing.
Remember to think ahead... What will you use to reference when you flip the flywheel over so you are true to the first surface?

 

[Jack3M]

I was planning on using an arbor, but good point that I had not considered.

 

[Jack3M]

came out good

 

[PhilL]

OOOooooo I like that!! You left the inside of the flywheel pollished instead of painting it.
Nice

 

[Jack3M]

Well. Deep subject, right? Lots to discuss. First though, I need to shout out to Gary Martin, who reached out to me on the setup for the flywheel yesterday. He took the time to try and post here and had problems, so he emailed me to contact him.

Unfortunately, it was too late, I already was the bull in then china shop and well, screwed up. I did not get the hole centered. This was not noticed until AFTER getting the outer diameter true and putting on the mill with an arbor to polish it. It was probably off .05-.1. Thusly, the last few days have been spent boring the hole out and putting in a heat fit plug to again drill out along with powder coating.

Seems the proper way is to (according to Gary) file down the parting line at the center of the spokes. Indicate off of this to get center....I went off the hub. Gary also mentioned a couple more things. Wax the piece and use bondo to make it lay flat. Only rest on on 3 spokes, not all the spokes.....

So now I sit with this wondering how the heck to indicate after I already did the outer ring with a different center. Will that be off like it was before. Lost lots of sleep over this last night. Will be calling Gary again today because I had distractions during our call and did not think of questions.....So, Gary, expect another call.

Moving along to the powder coat issues. Seems that soaking in Phosphoric acid and lacquer thinner, the cast iron absorbs. Prismatic Powders Engineer suggested a cook at 450 degrees for an hour before any powder. This was done, and there were great results. Powder coat problem over.

Now, the reason I had so much dang trouble making the tight tolerance plug for the flywheel, is that the metal expands when it gets hot and my measurements when hot were fine, and when cooled too little. Once that was figured out, the plug was lathed down to within .0015 and allowed to cool before final sanding down to exact size for the cold/hot fit. Was milling the end down to the flywheel hub and had a gear fail in the mill.(this fails frequently and I keep spare gear on hand, so will be back in business later today unless I go fishing.

So now how do I indicate to get true center if it is already off on the outer rim? The mill table will not give me enough in the Y axis to indicate off the outer ring which has been milled from an incorrect center. Grrrr.

 

[marvin hedberg]

this is the type of indicator holder that i have used for 40+ years.
it clamps on the OD of the quill, buy or make to suit your mill.
the rod can be made any length for larger diameters.
https://www.amazon.com/Anytime-Tool...icator+holder&qid=1562940700&s=gateway&sr=8-3

 

[Jack3M]

You know Marvin, that is a good idea, as if I can stretch things out from the quill, instead of only being able to go from center, that I could reach both sides of the Y axis. Since I know I am off, I am thinking the only way to have it look right is to go from the outer ring. BUT I am not positive and will be getting feedback from several before I bludgeon further along. Thank you.

 

[PhilL]

Sorry Jack, I'm wracking my brain for you.
Thinking out loud...
1- Can you indicate the rotary table bore to the quill
2- Move X a known amount to get clearance for the flywheel to clear the mill throat.
3- lay the flywheel on the roatary table and snug the clamps.
4- spin the rotary table to indicate the FW to the table indicating against the outer rim.

Hmmm AS I wrote that, I realized this will indicate the FW rim to the center of the table but that may not be what you need. I'll leave the answer there in case it helps to nudge you in the right direction for what you need.

 

[Jack3M]

Phil, I have considered this, but I would rather indicate off something that does not move, and fix the table to zero. You have the concept I need. I do think Marvin's suggestion will be easier and more accurate and eliminate the rotory table completely. I do not want to re do the outer diameter, as I wish to keep as much metal as possible before balancing. Of value, it doesn't have to be super tightened down to drill and ream one hole.

 

[PhilL]

Yea, I hear you Jack.

 

[Jack3M]

I have now spoken to Gary and he says.....Since I have placed the counter balance weights on the crankshaft the loss of material on the flywheel will not be important. Therefore indicate off the center parting line at the spokes and do the whole thing over.

 

[PhilL]

He's right. This engine won't run fast enough for a slight out of balance to matter. If you need to rebalance, you could drill holes and fill them with something lighter.

 

[Jack3M]

My head won't wrap around why just going with the outer diameter won't work. But I will do things the way suggested.

 

[MrMetric]

I am thoroughly enjoying your posts, Jack... I've also talked with Gary Martin on the phone a few days ago. I never got a set of the plans in my Mery kit (bought from a different individual, so Gary is out of the loop on that), and I wanted to rectify that problem. Castings sets such as the Mery are almost boutique items in that availability can go away at any time; therefore, although I'm hoping Gary doesn't go anywhere soon, I figured I should get the plans tout suite.

As you know, I have some reservations about starting a model such as the Mery as one of my first casting builds. Gary is making a pretty convincing argument to do his John Deere first primarily because of the documentation that complements the kit. It is on the higher end of kits, but I also understand the reasoning for why this is the case; it is turn-key (excepting paint and ignition source), and is very thorough.... So, I may be doing that one and then the Mery. I'm happy to put the plug for Gary in here because I was very impressed with his interest in supporting his product. From reading your posts, it is evident that he has supported you as well, which is wonderful. He and I talked about your wheel too. He mentioned that he isn't a computer guy so posting a lot isn't his thing, but it is quite apparent that he is happy to discuss issues (I get the feeling that verbally is probably the quickest for him).

I live about 10 miles from Los Gatos, which is where the Mery from which these models were originally developed is located. I hope to someday see the real guy in person (will have to wait for a show, I think... can't really barge into someone's house)

 

[Jack3M]

Well the last weekend in July and the first weekend in August he will probably be at the Great American Steam up in Brooks Oregon. Pretty cool place and well worth the trip if you havent gone. I saw it last year.

Yes, Gary is not at all hesitant to give advice and tips. I have enjoyed every moment of contact with him. His shop is awesome, cluttered, but in a busy way. Neat guy, along with his one employee. Very interesting person. He is apparently working on full size flywheel patterns for the original JD hit and miss. (He has flywheel patterns all over hanging in his shop.)

Along with an excellent product and drawings for it, this is one I would build again.

 

[PhilL]

I've had several chats with Gary as well when he comes to Cabin Fever in Pa. He loves talking with folks who have built his stuff.
The last time I saw him a couple years ago, he was on his last few sets of castings for the Mery. He said he wasn't going to make any more.
Jack, I sent you the Mery newsletters to your Gmail account in your profile. I sent them a couple weeks ago. Did you get them?

 

[Jack3M]

Not that I am aware Phil, will go back and look thru the spam folder.
jackmartin29@gmailcom?

 

[PhilL]

That explains it. The message in your profile has [email protected] not 29.
I'm in work at the moment and I don't have access to my files. I'll resend it tonight when I get home.
MRMetric, if you would like a copy, you can include your email address or PM me. These newsletters are what was circulated to the group who were involved in the early stages of the development. Lots of info you won't find in the prints.
I have received permission from Roland Morrison to forward them on to anyone building the engine. He was Gary's partner for this project.

 

[Jack3M]

Well, still working on center. Photo needs explanation. The green line points to the silver dot which is the center both using a center tool and using the DRO to get center from the outside of the hub. This was taken at the same height in all locations thanks to DRO. The lines from the tool (no arrows on the lines) also coincide with this. BUT I am not supposed to indicate from the hub.

So took the wheel and centered on x axis to get center for the two available locations at the spoke centers. Those are the red and blue lines pointing to pen dots. Since the counter balance is in the other section that is useless to measure.

I am thinking that the wise thing to do in this instance is take the average of the 4, splitting the difference of the outside centers. Speak up folks. What do you say? Gary, it is Saturday won't bother you on weekend, but you know how to contact me.

Also, I am unable to hold the flywheel on the rotory table without an arbor and even begin to hope things stay centered. Must have the hole to use the table.

 

[PhilL]

Being in the center of the hub or spokes is esthetic and less important then centered to the rotating mass on the outside. when I turned mine, I did take a skim on the hubs just because my OCD made me do it.