British 0-4-0 Toy Locomotive: he said

[zeeprogrammer]

Zee, sorry for the tangent in your thread.

Yes, Carl, I apologize too for dragging your thread so far off course.

No worries. It's all information...can't complain about that.

I would like to hear more about your boiler, someday..

You will, someday.. :big:

I hope to run by HD tomorrow...if I find what I think is suitable silver solder and firebricks or hearth material...then that's the way I'll go. I think the 'hard' solder approach is over the top. The instructions don't call for it...and tmuir and Marv's comments seem to support the 'soft' solder approach.

I could be wrong here...but it also seems that most everyone who use hard silver solder...cut it, flatten it, form it, etc. Maybe for small jobs they poke with the wire...

If I'm trying to keep the chrome plating (sanding off where the joint is though) then it seems 'difficult' to form the silver solder properly.

I also think I'll redo the boiler. I'm not happy with the holes for the bushings. So I'll use the one I have with some scrap brass and practice. That'll answer a lot of questions.

Thanks everyone.

 

[fcheslop]

Hi Zee, Now I'm confused(not a difficult thing to do) it must be a difference in terminology but if your looking for info try Reeves2000 site or Johnson Mathey as theres plenty of info on melt temps etc.When I drill for boiler bushes I drill in small steps to prevent me from rediscovering the lost art of hexagonal holes and finish with a reamer and then make the bush to fit the hole.Best of luck with the trial

 

[mklotz]

If you can get the type of fire "brick" that can be cut with a hand wood saw, get it. (Ask the clerk.) Makes it a lot easier to 'tailor' the hearth to your specific requirements - now and in the future. I have some that I've bored holes into (using well-abused drills) to support structures.

I noticed Dean using wire to hold the base of his Stirling together prior to brazing...

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8902.msg104451#msg104451

Perhaps he could chime in and tell us what type of wire he uses. In the past, I've used the soft iron wire that florists use because the solder won't adhere to it. Some of the wire used by bonsai artisans to form trees is aluminum. I've never tried it but that might be worth trying too. (I think they use iron wire too.)

Between wire and solder-won't-stick-to-it-aluminum, one can usually cobble together some method for holding the parts while you join them. Graphite (soft artist pencil) can be used to control where you don't want the solder to go.

I use solder pillions even with soft solder. It's just so much easier to control where the solder will go and the amount deposited.

Remember that everything must be free of oil. I use carburetor cleaner in an aerosol can (also great for removing Dykem) but acetone or paint thinner will probably work too.

I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes. Like single-point threading and tool grinding, it's one of those things that looks much harder than it really is.

Afterthought: Cone drills are the tool of choice for making neat holes in thin sheet metal such as boilers.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

When I drill for boiler bushes I drill in small steps to prevent me from rediscovering the lost art of hexagonal holes and finish with a reamer and then make the bush to fit the hole.

Thanks fcheslop. That's exactly why I'm not happy with the current boiler. Not sure about making the bush to fit the hole. That would mean making the parts that go onto the bushes afterwards so they fit?

Marv...cone drill! I'll look into it. Stepped? If tapered, how do you determine how far to go? What would the spindle speed be?

I'll try to have pics of each setup. The instructions have suggestions for setups, none that include wire but I think one setup would benefit by it. I have some solid picture handing wire.

Funny you mention Dean's wire...I thought the same thing when I read his post...

What kind of wire did you use Dean?

Thanks all.

 

[kcmillin]

Zee, Just a thought..FWIW... You could use an end mill to make the holes. Use the end mill you have that is closest to the right size and then make the bushing that size too. :shrug:

Kel

 

[Deanofid]

Afterthought: Cone drills are the tool of choice for making neat holes in thin sheet metal such as boilers.

Yes, cone drills, Zee! Also sold as Unibit. I have a couple I use in brass sheet. Stew has also shown them to good use in his boiler build.

I noticed Dean using wire to hold the base of his Stirling together prior to brazing...
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8902.msg104451#msg104451

That stuff is just small gage steel tie wire. Don't know the specifics, but it has a light gray coating. Just Ace Hardware stuff I bought for hanging pictures at a local art show.

I used to use it single strand, but after reading Dennis' wire-up job for his "Rudy" tractor boiler, decided to use his method of twist braiding the wire. It helps the wire stay where you put it, and how you bend it. Much better than single strand. Unless you flux it, you shouldn't have any problem with the solder sticking to it. Stainless wire will work too, as it usually needs a specific flux to solder it, though it is very stiff to work with.

Also, Dennis got some stuff called Solderite to use for his hearth. Don't know if it's a local hardware type of thing. The stuff Marv is talking about is a building material, but can't remember the name of it either! I know nothing! At least it may be something HD carries.

The hearth stuff won't matter so much for "soft" soldering, but it's nice to have a fireproof substance to set your work on.

Oh, Zee posted while I was. Cone drill-- has steps at certain diameters. Standard sizes along the "cone".

Dean

 

[steamboatmodel]

Just to add to the confusion, when I buy silver brazing wire at ether the jewelry supply or the welding shop they call it silver solder! As for using soft solder I have repaired toy boilers with Stay-Brite solder http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/consumables/alloys.asp?id=32
Which Harris says is stronger than brazed (I still braze when possible).
Regards,
Gerald.

 

[mklotz]

Cone drills - stepped and smooth...

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/?category=&q=step+drill

Every shop needs some. They're slicker than deer guts on a glass door knob for making *round* holes in sheet metal - trust me on this one. (Great for making holes in electronic enclosures too.)

For the stepless ones, I just stick them into the appropriate hole in one of my drill gages

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=17046481&PMT4NO=86705049

and Magic Marker the part above the hole. Drill until the marked area meets the top of the hole.

Check at HD. I think they sell various types of wire - brass, stainless and, tada, aluminum.

 

[Kermit]

Let me throw this out there as well.

Whatever someone may think I said, I sure hope they remember what they heard may not be what it was interpreted to imply.

Written word has limitations of inflection and emotional content and its hard to tell sarcasm from stupidity without knowing the personality behind the written words.

Take offense at what you see written as you are your own master, but know I have no disrepsect for anyone here and intend only to add to my knowledge and the knowledge of others as well.

Now by all means, Zee get this thread back on track. I'll once again tread lightly within it, since, it takes pages of diatribe to defuse such delicate devilery I deny ever devising! :big:

Really, I love all you guys!
Whatsomatterme?!! Whatsomatteryou?

 

[Deanofid]

Kermit, reading a certain one of my replies a couple of times, I can surly see how it would come off overly
defensive. Sorry for that, really. (..and, if you weren't thinking of me, chalk it up to my guilty conscience..) No offense meant.

Dean

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Group hug everyone. Group hug.
What? Don't need it?
Darn.
I mean good. :big:

Kel...bushings are already made. Not that I couldn't remake them...but if the diameter changes then all the stuff that goes on top of them changes too! I think it'll be fine.

Dean...Unibit! Believe it or not...I have one. Says so on the side. I used it to make holes in enclosures (as Marv said) and mounting boards. I doubt it's any good for metal. Looks pretty abused. Wrong size anyway. I'll probably go for undersize drill and ream to size.

..................................

Think about the group hug. I'm told I give good hugs.
High and tight or low and snug.
Wait...'she' says that.
Forget it. I like you guys but...
I don't know what you look like.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Not a good shopping day.
HD didn't have the small diameter silver solder.
They didn't have any firebrick either.
Got some polyurethane for a table but realized later I needed some stain.

Thought I'd have a win by getting the bamboo poles that wife wanted but she preferred the 'sticks' she found behind the fence.

Foo.

[EDIT: And I forgot to pick up some 1/4-28 bolts. Argh.]

[EDIT: And I looked at some Unibit cone bits. $34. $17 a hole. Nope. Not yet.]

 

[Deanofid]

Well shoot, Zee.
At least the bamboo things are good for beating yourself on the bean. Sounds like that kind of day..

Since you are going to use regular solder, the diameter is even less of an issue than for brazing (hard, silver solder, etc.) wire. As you know, it smashes very flat just using the smooth part of the jaws on pliers. Then snip it and put it where you want it.

Really, when using regular solder, I just get the joint hot enough to turn the flux a bit brown and wipe solder over the joint right off the wire. That stuff goes so easy.

PM Research sells a "soft" silver bearing solder in a kit with a really good flux for $10. It's 96/4 tin/silver, 430° f flow temp, 1/16" dia. Same thing Harris sells as Stay-Brite, and easy to use, (I've used it a lot). Works for copper, brass and steel, and any mix of those.
If you order it tomorrow morning by phone and ask them to put it in a priority box, should have it Sat or Mon.
http://www.pmresearchinc.com/store/home.php?cat=32
I'm almost certain I've see the same at HD under the Harris brand. Stay-Brite.

Hope things go your way tomorrow!

Dean

 

[zeeprogrammer]

And...I tried to mill the bolt holding the vise to the mill table.
Criminy.
Going to bed.

Wait.

I foresee a toe stub.

Solution...martinis. Then neither I nor the toe will care. :big:

 

[shred]

Step Drill & boiler tube: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2049.0;attach=1556;image

The cheap HF bits do ok on copper pipe.

 

[Troutsqueezer]

Zee, I got tired of looking for fire brick locally and decided to see if the rumors about HardiBacker board were true. This is sold at Home Depot for cheap. I picked up a piece with a small section broken and the guy sold it to me for 2 bucks. I cut some smallish pieces and made a small hearth. I blasted it directly for quite awhile with my MAPP torch. I then proceeded to braze a number of parts on it, no prob.

It looks like it but no, it's not sheetrock.

-Trout

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Shred. I'll check them out next time I visit HF.

Thanks Trout. After I left the store I realized I'd forgotten to ask about that.
Not a problem though. Since this trip involved a home improvement job, there'll be two more trips to make. ;D

 

[mklotz]

The cone/step drills from Harbor Freight are like $10 for three - see my link above - and they work just fine.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

The cone/step drills from Harbor Freight are like $10 for three - see my link above - and they work just fine.

They're on my shopping list next time I visit HF. Thanks Marv.

Got the Hardibacker board today. Thanks Trout.

I don't think I need the citric acid (instructions just use a sponge) but I'll check for some.

Haven't made the usual 3rd trip to HD so I'm thinking I've forgotten something. Well it'll come to me...about two minutes before closing time.

 

[Philjoe5]

[EDIT: And I forgot to pick up some 1/4-28 bolts. Argh.]

Haven't made the usual 3rd trip to HD so I'm thinking I've forgotten something

The bolts Zee, the bolts

Cheers,
Phil