Powder painting a flywheel

Ghosty said:

Brian,
Good to see that it all worked, the flywheels look great, the powder looks like it flowed out great. I would like to get into this as well, but I just don't have the room.
Cheers
Andrew

Click to expand...

You don't have to dive as deep as Brian did. Many/most skip the sandblaster and use a toaster oven. A spray booth isn't really needed either. I just put either a cardboard or a plastic sheet on the floor. The overspray is very very little due the the electrostatic charge. Far less overspray than a rattle can of paint.

The pics of Brians booth after spraying are probably due the the fan overwhelming the electrostatic charge on the part. He should try it once with the fan off, it might work even better with far less waste.

Sparky_SC said:

The pics of Brians booth after spraying are probably due the the fan overwhelming the electrostatic charge on the part. He should try it once with the fan off, it might work even better with far less waste.

Click to expand...

I agree, he is just drawing the powder away from the part, into the filter.
I mentioned this earlier.
He will get it all ironed out, and find out the optimal configuration for things.
There is a certain amount of trial and error when learning/setting up a new process.

Us armchair folks can only sit back and watch others achieve things; one day hopefully I too will get to build and do some more engine stuff.
The flywheels look great, so mission accomplished !
.

Sparky_SC said:

Brian,
...Lower than rated voltage has a HUGE effect on devices with a resistance heating element. Items such as TV's and electronics usually have a pretty wide rated operating voltage.

Nominal line voltage in north America is 120 volts even though many people routinely refer to it as 110 volts.

Now for some ohm's law calculations ! Lets assume your oven is rated 120volts and 1500 watts. IF the voltage at the outlet was 110 volts that would reduce the power to 1260 watts, a 16% reduction in heat output. 110 volts would most likely not be even noticed elsewhere in the house.

Click to expand...

If Brian's voltage is low enough to affect the maximum attainable temperature of the oven, I would STRONGLY, STRONGLY STRONGLY suggest not running the oven, and probably not running anything on that circuit until an electrician has a look.

If his voltage under load is low enough to cause the oven to not reach operating temperature, this suggests a SERIOUS wiring problem that should be addressed yesterday if not sooner.

The temperature of an oven like Brian has, should be dominated by the thermostat. The maximum temperature isn't (or at least shouldn't be, if it wasn't designed by malicious idiots) the steady-state temperature at which power input is matched by heat losses through the envelope. Instead the maximum temperature should be a product of the thermostat cycling the elements on and off to maintain the set-point temperature, and there should be quite a lot of headroom in the available power to maintain that temperature. Without that headroom, the oven would take forever to reach operating temperature if there was a heat sink (cold parts) in the oven.

If the voltage checks out as anywhere within the plausible range for OK wiring in the US, I think there's still a good reason to suspect a faulty thermostat in the oven. If the voltage is much below the 114V (NEC 5% drop) limit, I'd ALSO start looking for faulty wiring upstream of the outlet - this is potentially a symptom of a serious fire hazard.

Brian,
I have enjoyed and learned much from your sandblasting and powder coating adventures.
I am going to make the siphon valve for my HF sand blast cabinet.
Good luck on getting your engine to run.
Mike

Now that I know that my powder paint system works, I'm down to the nitty gritty of finding a cheap source for powder paint in Ontario, Canada. My Canadian dollar is only worth 73 cents American money. Shipping from America to Canada is about $50. So a half pound of powder paint costs 15$ in America but costs $20.54 in Canada. the shipping costs $50 American, but costs $68.50 Canadian. Then add on 15% taxes I have to pay on anything I purchase, and that comes to $102.39 You can see where this is going. I have to find a Canadian source for my powder paint.

Why not try googling "power coating supplies Canada"? I'm sure you might find something in the 10+ pages of results.

Brian,
For the amount you will be using, have you looked at company's that do Powder Coating, have a talk with them, you may be able to buy some from them.
Cheers
Andrew

I have googled powder paint in Canada till my fingers hurt. It's not that easy. 95% of the people advertising Powder Paint in Canada are selling product that originates in United States. We really do only sell pine trees and beaver pelts here. That being said, I went out today with a mission and went to 2 places advertising powder Paint in Barrie, and one of them gave me an address in Ontario where they buy their powder paint. A phone call was all it took, and I have found a place that sells for less than half of what I would pay for product out of USA. I'm going right now to buy enough powder paint to last me the rest of my natural life.

Brian:
Is it possible to have someone in US buy stuff for you and then mail it to you? Ideally if you could find someone who makes regular runs from US to Canada like a truck driver you could purchase it, have it delivered to them and then ship it to you or bring it the next time they come to Canada. That would not work for large items that have to go through customs but small items could work. I am not familiar with shipping to Canada. Customs could be the big problem.

Gordon
I have done what you suggest for others on another forum. You pretty much have to fill out a Customs declaration at the PO. They want to know exactly what is in package. I don't know how they feel about power paint.

Gordon---Brings back memories.---when I was a kid my old granny lived in Niagara Falls on the Canadian side. One time my mom and I took the train or bus (I can't remember which) down to Niagara for a visit with my Granny. Mom and I and Granny and her boyfriend went across to the American side and bought a whole damned bunch of clothes, and then put them on right in the store---over our other clothes. When we came back across into Canada the customs agent asked if we had anything to declare. Everybody said "No, not today". I had on three pair of pants and four shirts, My mother and old granny were wearing five sets of underwear, one over the other. I don't remember much about her boyfriend. That was my first dabble into international smuggling when I was about 10 years old!!!

Brian Rupnow said:

Now that I know that my powder paint system works, I'm down to the nitty gritty of finding a cheap source for powder paint in Ontario, Canada. My Canadian dollar is only worth 73 cents American money. Shipping from America to Canada is about $50. So a half pound of powder paint costs 15$ in America but costs $20.54 in Canada. the shipping costs $50 American, but costs $68.50 Canadian. Then add on 15% taxes I have to pay on anything I purchase, and that comes to $102.39 You can see where this is going. I have to find a Canadian source for my powder paint.

Click to expand...

For powder coating supplies, did you contact:

https://emeraldcoatings.com

I have no personal experience with Emerald. (I think I got the link from a posting here??)


Re getting US products in Canada, you can sometimes save a lot by using a cross-border service. My wife and I use Shippsy:

https://shippsy.com

There is a Shippsy pickup location in Vaughn which I guess is 45 minutes from Barrie. There could be other such services that offer pickup in Barrie.

As an example, my wife ordered a small package recently. When it arrived at Shippsy's location near Buffalo, she authorized it online and it was brought to Shippsy's Mississauga location in about 2 days. She will pay their fee (C$7.99 for an under-10-pound package) plus the Ontario Harmonized Sales Tax (13%) and then we'll pick it up. If she had had the supplier ship it directly to her, I believe the shipping would have been USD $35 plus HST. (UPS would add their extortionate "brokerage" charges if they happened to be the courier used.)

Note that Shippsy will always collect the HST. If you have something delivered directly to you by postal service, they generally don't bother collecting the tax on a package valued at less than USD $100. This can tip the scales in certain cases.

Craig
(Why, yes. I was a professional accountant before I retired.)

Yes, I bought the paint powder from Emerald Coatings. Seemed like very nice people to deal with.

Princess Auto in the last year or so started stocking the painting systems and (although they don't show them on line) a limited selection paints.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/powder-coating-system/product/PA0008634230

I was into Princess auto yesterday. They sell the powder gun. They do not sell powder.

I guess it depends on which outlet and when I guess. They had basic black and white when I was there a year ago.
Stuff always comes and goes there.
You picked a good local supplier so you're all set.
I believe I bought some food grade white from them a couple of years ago.
As you know there are several types of paint and they have different purposes (outdoors / indoors / sun resistant.....etc.) also baking requirements vary.

Brian Rupnow said:

Now that I know that my powder paint system works, I'm down to the nitty gritty of finding a cheap source for powder paint in Ontario, Canada. My Canadian dollar is only worth 73 cents American money. Shipping from America to Canada is about $50. So a half pound of powder paint costs 15$ in America but costs $20.54 in Canada. the shipping costs $50 American, but costs $68.50 Canadian. Then add on 15% taxes I have to pay on anything I purchase, and that comes to $102.39 You can see where this is going. I have to find a Canadian source for my powder paint.

Click to expand...

I think I told you before about Emerald coatings, 5914 Wellington Rd 123, Palmerston, ON N0G 2P0 (519) 417-4867

Okay, time for a little creative accounting. There is absolutely no way that I can justify spending the money I did to buy a powder paint outfit. I don't sell these engines. I build them totally for myself.-------However---Today I went to my steel supplier and got some pricing on 4" diameter round stock. Cold rolled steel costs me $7 per inch. Hot rolled steel costs me $7.78 per inch. Brass costs me $37 per inch.---Think flywheels here. On every engine that I build with two flywheels on it, I save $60 if I make the flywheels from cold rolled steel and paint them instead of using brass. Yeah, I know, I probably won't build enough engines between now and when I die to recover the cost of a powder paint system, but it makes you think, doesn't it.---Brian

Brian Rupnow said:

Okay, time for a little creative accounting. There is absolutely no way that I can justify spending the money I did to buy a powder paint outfit. I don't sell these engines. I build them totally for myself.-------However---Today I went to my steel supplier and got some pricing on 4" diameter round stock. Cold rolled steel costs me $7 per inch. Hot rolled steel costs me $7.78 per inch. Brass costs me $37 per inch.---Think flywheels here. On every engine that I build with two flywheels on it, I save $60 if I make the flywheels from cold rolled steel and paint them instead of using brass. Yeah, I know, I probably won't build enough engines between now and when I die to recover the cost of a powder paint system, but it makes you think, doesn't it.---Brian

Click to expand...

You already seen how little powder is used to coat parts. You will save quite a bit over using rattle can paints too.

Sparky_SC said:

You already seen how little powder is used to coat parts. You will save quite a bit over using rattle can paints too.

Click to expand...

But instead of having 15 cans of paint laying around, you'll have 15 bags of powder, in two years when you go to use the paint can, it might work, the powder, with some care, will last a lot longer. A minimum powder buy of basic RAL colours is about 1.5 times the price of a can of paint so if you discount the equipment costs that could have been a cardboard box paint booth, a $20 Kijiji toaster oven and a gun, the powder works out to be pretty reasonable.