Whats up with HMEM?

[Tin Falcon]

It can be both. That's why I'm on at 6:49 AM on a Sunday.

Good point!
we are looking forward to seeing your first engine build. You have the best resource on the net to learn from.

There have been many good points brought up in this thread, While many of us grew with the old not for profit forum I think the focus needs to be to move forward for the mutual benefit of Group builders and the HMEM community.
A diamond is a beautiful thing there are many facets. The facets need to be balanced and properly proportioned . If to much effort is put on one facet the adjacent facets get smaller and the diamond looses value .
Tin
PS I am still seeing the OT articles on the home page as well.

 

[BaronJ]

My opinion is everybody is missing the point here. When Austin bought this forum he did it for one reason. To make money. How? It's called Internet Marketing.
JR

What is good for the goose is also good for the gander !

I've no objection to anybody making money, after all its what makes the world go round.

However if I give freely the benefit of my knowledge, experience, skills etc. I expect that to remain so. Not to be taken and packaged as a for sale item.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Austin:
IMHO some the best writers on the subject of Model engineering are already here.

Dare I say this but if you gave lifetime premium membership in exchange for 6 Months exclusive first publishing rights. and the Author keeps copyright for future use you might get some interest.
Current active members would benefit from premium membership and you would get needed quality articles. You could potential get hundreds of articles with no cash outlay. And you would have a good base group of lifetime members.
Tin

 

[Admin]

Articles still there as of 6:15 am Mountain time.

Ron

Some of the articles will remain. I stopped the writer, and the plagiarized article was removed.

Good point!
we are looking forward to seeing your first engine build. You have the best resource on the net to learn from.

There have been many good points brought up in this thread, While many of us grew with the old not for profit forum I think the focus needs to be to move forward for the mutual benefit of Group builders and the HMEM community.
A diamond is a beautiful thing there are many facets. The facets need to be balanced and properly proportioned . If to much effort is put on one facet the adjacent facets get smaller and the diamond looses value .
Tin
PS I am still seeing the OT articles on the home page as well.

Which ones are you guys considering OT? If you can let me know I will review them.

I'm hoping to start my sterling engine in the near future. I think that's going to be my jumping off point.

What is good for the goose is also good for the gander !

I've no objection to anybody making money, after all its what makes the world go round.

However if I give freely the benefit of my knowledge, experience, skills etc. I expect that to remain so. Not to be taken and packaged as a for sale item.

That's not what's happening here. I'm offering compensation in exchange for the articles. I'm buying the articles submitted.

Austin:
IMHO some the best writers on the subject of Model engineering are already here.

Dare I say this but if you gave lifetime premium membership in exchange for 6 Months exclusive first publishing rights. and the Author keeps copyright for future use you might get some interest.
Current active members would benefit from premium membership and you would get needed quality articles. You could potential get hundreds of articles with no cash outlay. And you would have a good base group of lifetime members.
Tin

I agree, that's why I tapped members to try and write, but got very few articles and even less feedback.

I'm going to contact some publishers and see how they are doing it. I have some friends in the industry who may be able to help, but I really like your idea too!

 

[ozzie46]

Two articles relating to "biomass Gasifiers" and "building a windmill turbine.


Ron

 

[Tin Falcon]

Austin

Which ones are you guys considering OT? If you can let me know I will review them.

The first five are IMHO OT.

I'm hoping to start my sterling engine in the near future. I think that's going to be my jumping off point.

Good to hear you are jumping into the hobby but the general consensus is start on a Air /steam engine the tolerances are a whole lot more forgiving.

That's not what's happening here. I'm offering compensation in exchange for the articles. I'm buying the articles submitted.

I agree, that's why I tapped members to try and write, but got very few articles and even less feedback.

IMHO there are two problems the compensation offered is too low and you expected the author to abandon all rights to his or her work.
Increase compensation and expect limited rights to the work and I think you will get more response.

I think no one here had the nerve to say in public that you offer of compensation was insanely low.

I'm going to contact some publishers and see how they are doing it. I have some friends in the industry who may be able to help, but I really like your idea too!

I think you will find that my proposal is on the low end of customary compensation. I am trying to look on both sides of the coin here . Some fair compensation to the authors . There ability to retain copyright. And you not having to put out large amount of cash up front to generate articles.
This will obliviously only work on a one per member basis . In the future when articles come in and generate revenue then there should be cash to fairly compensate for second and third..... articles .
Tin

 

[Rivergypsy]

It may be to make money, not that
a shared love of a subject should be, but that's life I guess; but this place has changed for the worse without a doubt. And that's without the ads. There are some lovely people here; don't get me wrong, but it's not what it used to be.

 

[RonGinger]

The whole idea of articles is new to me. As I said earlier I never knew they were on this site until this thread started. I dont see how articles will help pull people to a forum. I read forums to see what other guys are doing, and as kind of a 'club chat' I feel I know many of the guys here like I do guys in my local club.

I think of many of these threads as articles, particularly the build logs. Other than the somewhat choppy text, with the interspersed 'good job' notes and some questions they make great articles. I have always thought someone with good writing skill should take these long threads and edit them into an article. There are many- maybe a hundred or more, great articles right here, just waiting for a good editor to clean them into articles. But that, of course, gets us back to the copyright and ownership issues.

Is the problem that Google doesn't see the content of the forum so doesn't index them?

How about this. We point out a few threads or build logs that would make nice. on topic, articles. Austin pays a writer/editor to take all the notes and edit them into a nice article. The original author gets a payment, and it seems to me, based on publishing in a hobby mag, that he ought to get maybe $200-$500. He still owns his original thread, and could do as he please, but since Austin paid to have the edited version, then he gets rights to use them.

Remember, a copyright refers to the exact words in a document. Anyone can take that document and re-write using different words and he owns the copyright to the revision. A copyright protects the exact words, not the thought.

 

[hobby]

I used to look at forums as just a get together for hobbyists in there field of interest to share, things in that interest, so I too was very disaapointed with this site, to the point that I personally complained about all the advertizings, bla bla bla....

But JR, has made the point very clear to me, in his post #76, I see this forum in a whole new light now, and I have no reason to put out my complain thread about excessive advertizing anymore, on any forums, that I have the privaledge to frequent, also TIN, made some very great points and suggestions, about this sight to back up the whole reality of how these forums actually work, and the very carefull stategies needed to keep forums working smoothly.

Austin, it would be great to have you join in with us, to help make it a labor of love for the forum as the much needed business aspect of it, as you build your engines,.

I must say I really am not qualified to speak out on this manner, of labor of love for engine building, as a lot of my build threads on this forum has more to do with the enjoyment of machining parts to build mechanical models of nonengine projects, in metal as the prime material, then just building engines alone.

Thanks again Austin, JR, and TIN, for making it clear and to the point of how these forums actually work.
　

RON sorry I posted after your very good post that deserves some attention to read, but I posted and yours came up before mine.


　
　

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Austin,

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronJ
What is good for the goose is also good for the gander !

I've no objection to anybody making money, after all its what makes the world go round.

However if I give freely the benefit of my knowledge, experience, skills etc. I expect that to remain so. Not to be taken and packaged as a for sale item.

That's not what's happening here. I'm offering compensation in exchange for the articles. I'm buying the articles submitted.
[/quote]

What I was getting at was how information given freely here and elsewhere has/is been/being taken and packaged by third parties then sold.

I apologize if my comment inferred otherwise.

 

[canadianhorsepower]

It's sad in one way to see this flaring up the way it is,
SPECIALLY AFTER AUSTIN, TIN, are joining in to try to fix the issue here.
I ean like give them a few minutes to trun around and fixe what members don't like
and that is beeing applied in all your surounding.

Did you know that your working for a companie, "name what ever you want,"
while at work and you manage to improve production or a tool are what ever improvement
you want to talk about IT"S NOT YOUR'SE It belong to the companie........ no questions ask.
Ive been a Grand Master Tech for GM for over 20 years. when I found an improvement of
anykind , or changing the tutorial on how to replace a parts, Sure GM was giving me a bonus
but the IDEA was and is still there's .
Even today as an Electro-Mechanical-Engineering-Robotic-Professor any developement, paper work,
or what ever belongs to the college and it's a sign contract.

As for those *****ing about not ENGINE MODELLING FORUM.... well if' it's beeing posted by a very active
member can help us in our machinist ability (Rfellows ardruino's table is one of them Brian's ball machine)
only to name a few are not side tracking our hobby but simply open our brains to new idea

hey guys take a few *beer**beer**beer* and we are to early in 2014 to argue

let Austin and Tin do their job now that they have many inputs on things
that members don't like

cheers

 

[Rivergypsy]

Give it a rest CH; they're here when they need to be, not when we them want them to be. That's $$$ not a good forum

 

[Walltoddj]

Is the problem that Google doesn't see the content of the forum so doesn't index them?


How about this. We point out a few threads or build logs that would make nice. on topic, articles. Austin pays a writer/editor to take all the notes and edit them into a nice article. The original author gets a payment, and it seems to me, based on publishing in a hobby mag, that he ought to get maybe $200-$500. He still owns his original thread, and could do as he please, but since Austin paid to have the edited version, then he gets rights to use them.

Remember, a copyright refers to the exact words in a document. Anyone can take that document and re-write using different words and he owns the copyright to the revision. A copyright protects the exact words, not the thought.

As I said before google is a crock and yes they do index the forum post maybe not all but some example is Copperhead Steam Roller if you google it it shows up.

Most are not looking to copyright just to get it out there so it can be used by the members, but I do agree we need a way to stop others from selling what we did for a profit!!

 

[canadianhorsepower]

Give it a rest CH; they're here when they need to be, not when we them want them to be. That's $$$ not a good forum

and that's a good thing that what boss do they show up when they are needed fixe the problem then vanish,

what are you expecting????? have a nice day emails every day from them
or:noidea::noidea: come on guys give us a reason to argue about something.

just curious when everything goes good at home, do you spank your wife with a broom to start an argument (hope not) well they do the same here:wall:

I never had the chance to see any BOSS walking in the shop and yelling
HEY something to cry about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm sure I won't see that eather

 

[Tin Falcon]

It's sad in one way to see this flaring up the way it is,
SPECIALLY AFTER AUSTIN, TIN, are joining in to try to fix the issue here.
I ean like give them a few minutes to trun around and fixe what members don't like
and that is beeing applied in all your surounding.

Thanks Ch you are right. I really think now that concerns are in the open Austin is listening and there will be some positive changes but they will not happen instantly. Austin need to do some research An I expect confer with his staff. But I do think thing will change for the better of all.

Give it a rest CH; they're here when they need to be, not when we them want them to be. That's $$$ not a good forum

RG : I do think your statement is unfair. IMHO Austin does his best to be involved he is here at all hours as he sees fit. And realize he has a dozen or so forums to check in on .
I am also on here at all hours of the day and night as I see fit. We are not at your beckon call.We do have lives.
Tin

 

[Swifty]

Luc, your quite correct in saying if you develop an idea or an improvement for a company that you are working for, its their property. You are being paid a wage from that company for your work, a small bonus is their appreciation.

When I retired, I did some contract design and development work for a door company for a new security shutter for shopping malls. I charged them for every hour of my work, and all the designs, methods, etc became their property. I was approached a short time later by an opposition company wanting me to do the same thing, on the same product. I refused to do this, as im sure that they only wanted me to hand over the design drawings to them. The original company had paid me for all the development time and I wasnt about to undermine them. Sorry, were getting a bit off topic.

Paul.

 

[canadianhorsepower]

The original company had paid me for all the development time and I wasnt about to undermine them. Sorry, were getting a bit off topic.

Hi Paul this is not off topic THIS IS ONE OF THE MAIN TOPICS

cheers

Luc

 

[Anko]

Hi
As i'm not longer an active member (just watch some building threads and stuff), I´m not sure if i'm well placed here to post an opinion on this matter, I will do, if you feel that is out of place or does not hit the issue, please ignore it, or some moderator please erase it.

I think, that the base problem of the forum, is not the ads for advertising, is something with the morale of participating in a profit forum.

For the older users, there is a feeling attached to this forum, because of the wonderful it was before, much like a family. Older and experienced users were always watching for us the newbies and newcomers, congratulating us for our achievements, and encouraging us in not so lucky times. I feel it too in my short time before the transition of ownership.

Thing is, first of all, we have to accept the motion that the forum will NOT be the same as before (I'm not saying that is bad or better now), and this is natural, in order to survive, things must evolve: this forum was great, and bigger and bigger every day, in some point it was not able to maintain itself out of charity.

So now, beside that the forum remains almost the same (I deactivate the ads and haven't seen one then), there all kinds of issues, problems and discontent about anything.

The morality problem? we share knowledge, ideas, pictures and all for free, just for the fun and enjoyment of seeing great engines threads, smooth running engines, and help other tho archive these goals.

Some people dont feel right about it, because out of his enthusiasm, some people are making money, its like work for free. The time and work to make a post is relevant: writing, redacting, upload pictures, answers and ask questions to other users, and if your native language is not English, then spell check to make sure that at least somebody could understand the basic idea. Making a post could consume and hour or more easy, and for the people with time problems, posting in the forum instead of playing in the shop is a sacrifice, but just for the joy of sharing, they do it anyway.

But now, out of this joy and good will, someone is taking advantage, than, most of the people don't feel good about it. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Doest not mather if Austin changes the color of the forum to a more blueish one, or the font from Arial to Arial Narrow. A complain thread will come up, and afther endless discution, will end with the issue topic of copyrigth and profit.

That being said, this forum will not improve until a few facts are clear to all:

-The forum will not be the same as before.
-Naturally for web evolution, this is a forum for profit. and will remain so.

For the users that they joy in this hobby is so, that they dont care about the copyright or profit, my congratulations! you are the people that is keeping the forum alive!

For the other users, you will have to decide if you live with the facts listed above, or not, the intermediate state has only accomplished a slow and problematic transition.

For Austin, he is not the evil dictator that have ruined the forum, he is just a person that their job is to maintain the community happy, ensure high traffic, and user expansion. Its not fair that all the guilt goes to him. If the forum were not bought, then at some point it will have died, because of the inability of sustain itself, better have some that nothing.

Austin: It will be better IMO if you discuss first your plans for the forum, strategy and proyections before you implement it, that way anybody will not feel offended, or taken by surprise with changes, and also that way all users can contribute, making any changes something positive, and sparing complain threads.

I hope to not have offended anybody, is just my opinion.

Saludos

 

[Tin Falcon]

Annko: IMHO well stated especially coming from someone that English is a second language.

Apple corporation started with a couple guys building computers in a garage.
Growth most often necessitates change . Bigger facilities require more income to maintain.

This forum was one mans Idea and experiment it grew to the point where it needed bigger home and more funds to maintain.

It will never be what it was but it can be excellent grow and thrive.

Lets all work towards improvement. Lets see more creative ideas and maybe a few less complaints.
Tin

 

[canadianhorsepower]

Hi
As i'm not longer an active member (just watch some building threads and stuff),

and why not????????????????? funny not an active member, but you ***** about it,
sound like my neibour's girl friend