What all is required to get into this hobby?

[KennyMcCormick315]

Little background: I quite literally grew up with a wrench in my hand. Been working on engines my whole life, and I've always had a massive interest in tinkering with things in general.


My interest in such things has led me to the myriad of Youtube videos showing these miniature marvels running. Everything from old school steamers to full-on water cooled pressure lubed V8s. Even seen nut-and-bolt perfect replicas of Rolls Royce Merlins and the odd Ferrari Flat-12. These engines have all sparked an interest in machining my own desktop engines.

But I don't know enough to start on my own. So I'm here. The closest I've come to machining anything is breaking the glaze on the cylinder walls of my '85 Ford pickup. Which isn't much. It was successful, sure, but that's barely scratching the surface.

So what sorts of machines will I need? I know a mill and a lathe, tap and die set, drill bits, that's about it. And I don't know enough about these tools to choose on my own. I plan on starting off nice and simple, building something like this, and perhaps modifying it slightly to run as a glow fuel two cycle 'half-breed' since I don't have much love for external combustion and have a LOT of experience with glow ignition.

 

[Tin Falcon]

This will give few pointers.


http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/Getting-started-in-Model-Engineering-and-choosing-your-first-engines.html


There are lots of ways of getting started. If you have a college that still offers machining classes that is an option. There is lots to download and read from the internet. There are good videos to watch.

the engine you show can be purchased pre machined and then assembled with hand tools.

then you can tinker.
spending a couple grand for machine tools and jumping in both feet is one way to start but not the only way.
Tin

 

[Swifty]

I'm not sure if I would choose a model made from castings for the first engine, any mistakes and it could be costly. As you have no machining experience it may be best to start with an engine made from bar stock, that way any mistakes can be easily replaced.

Paul.

 

[KennyMcCormick315]

This will give few pointers.


http://www.homemodelenginemachinist...ineering-and-choosing-your-first-engines.html

Checking that out.

There are lots of ways of getting started. If you have a college that still offers machining classes that is an option.

Not for me. Too broke to afford it, yet not broke enough to get grants.

the engine you show can be purchased pre machined and then assembled with hand tools.

Hence my interest in thta engine. My plan was to buy the pre-machined one first, build that(Shouldn't be hard since I've done headwork on car engines), and modify it a bit. Turn it into a 2-cycle glow IC halfbreed, maybe make a proper counterweighted crank for it, stuff like that, then move on to buying one as a casting kit once I feel comfortable giving such a thing a shot.

spending a couple grand for machine tools and jumping in both feet is one way to start but not the only way.
Tin

And not a way I can afford to get in, sadly. Which is why I'm asking people who know what they're doing to point me in a better direction!

I'm not sure if I would choose a model made from castings for the first engine, any mistakes and it could be costly. As you have no machining experience it may be best to start with an engine made from bar stock, that way any mistakes can be easily replaced.

Paul.

My interest in that engine is because I can buy it as a pre-machined kit, only requiring assembly, and as a casting kit.

 

[rodw]

The HMEM EZ runner is the reason why I came to this forum, the instructions give great insight into making an engine and you will learn heaps from a really simple project. Also, the MIT videos set my list of tooling which I wrote out as I watched them. I have taken quite some time to find everything on my list. As you use your tools you gain confidence and start looking for problems to solve. Start with a lathe as they are a lot cheaper to buy the tooling for than a mill. Maybe get a small drill press before buying a mill. I did not have a mill when I built my EZ.

One of these days soon, I will make another engine but it is amazing how many jobs I have had on my todo list that keep distracting me from my next model as I have set up my workshop. Now my wish list is quite short and I have the confidence to do things I would not dream of a few months ago as I have the things on hand ( both bought and home made) that make the job easy.

Start where your budget lets you and take it from there.

 

[ShopShoe]

All of the advice above is good.

What I will add is just to start somewhere: I spent too many years not getting started in machining because I was waiting to get enough money to set up a complete shop with large machines and lots of space and lots of time.

Like some others, I decided to jump in with one of the 7x Mini-lathes. Do I like it? Not totally. Can I do precision work? Yes, but it takes a lot longer than with a better machine and I do have to spend time adjusting things and measuring more than I would with something else. The point is I have learned a lot over the time that I have had it. I have since acquired a mill (mill-drill) and one of the 4 x 6 bandsaws.

Regarding the cost: I have spent more than triple what I spent on the machines on tooling and accessories, and some of those I have made myself. Don't knock the cost of classes: In my area they are the equivalent to some of the books you may decide to acquire: Machinery's Handbook and etc. I know of people who routinely sign up for adult education classes just to use the shop. I haven't done it (and don't know what is currently true), but I would pay $100 to get the use of a Bridgeport mill for 3 hours a week for eight weeks.

So, just jump in somewhere: You'll know "What to do next" after you gain some experience.

--ShopShoe

 

[barnesrickw]

Still considering myself a slowly advancing beginner, I would say patience and perseverance are the best tools to have. Lots of mistakes, bad parts, and lots of lessons MAY be in your future. I wish I would have found this forum before I started.


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[KennyMcCormick315]

This will give few pointers.


http://www.homemodelenginemachinist...ineering-and-choosing-your-first-engines.html

I got to looking a bit more at this thread, and in particular the machines within it. One machine caught my eye.


http://www.siegind.com/products_detail/&productId=3b4a4bd4-a6c2-4a89-81bb-edc65d5c8050.html


The thread mentions they're a popular choice, so I'm assuming they're not terrible. But are they good enough that I could build reliable engines on them without fighting my equipment? If they are, and in particular that machine since it fits nicely with the limited space I have to do this, I know what I'll be trawling for on the 'Bay and Craigslist.

All of the advice above is good.

What I will add is just to start somewhere: I spent too many years not getting started in machining because I was waiting to get enough money to set up a complete shop with large machines and lots of space and lots of time.

Mhm. I want to start with one of PM Research's pre-machined assembly kits and just tinker with that. Machining odds 'n ends. Maybe someday buy a casting kit or some bar stock(Saw someone in another thread grab a 5 pound dumbbell from Walmart and use it as iron stock, might try that too!)

Don't knock the cost of classes: In my area they are the equivalent to some of the books you may decide to acquire: Machinery's Handbook and etc. I know of people who routinely sign up for adult education classes just to use the shop. I haven't done it (and don't know what is currently true), but I would pay $100 to get the use of a Bridgeport mill for 3 hours a week for eight weeks.

I'm not knocking it, I'm simply stating I cannot afford to take them. Or the gas to drive to them. Plus, if I have my own machine I can use it whenever I want to use it, and for whatever comes to mind, two things that just aren't possible if you're using a classroom's equipment.


For now my jumping in point will probably be a pre-machined assembly kit and whatever shenanigans I can come up with using a dremel. Hopefully I don't ruin an engine, but hey, ruining them teaches what not to do!

 

[Tin Falcon]

Kenny IMHO buying a machined kit such as the PMR 3BIM is an excellent way to start.


as far as sieg IMHO the 7x lathe and the x-2 mill are likely the most popular entry machines.

These are the machines I started with and still have.

I have never tried a micro or nano.
Tin

 

[KennyMcCormick315]

Mmm, if they're high enough quality then I think that one will be my first. I did the conversions, it's big enough to work with the smaller stuff, and being both a mill and a lathe in one machine I can easily enough pack it away in a cupboard when I'm not using it.

Time to start looking into secondhand models that aren't worn out!

 

[MCRIPPPer]

you need every tool imaginable lol.



at least that is what it always turns into.

 

[rodw]

Mmm, if they're high enough quality then I think that one will be my first. I did the conversions, it's big enough to work with the smaller stuff, and being both a mill and a lathe in one machine I can easily enough pack it away in a cupboard when I'm not using it.

Time to start looking into secondhand models that aren't worn out!

I would recommend separate machines. the X2 mill with its own base is not much more than the add on for the lathe. It is not much fun tearing everything down to use the lathe. Wrong country I know, but like this:
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M150A

I can't speak for the smaller machines but there is no doubt my Seig Super X3 mill is a cut above the Chinese lathe I bought in terms of quality I also got when I bought the mill.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Small machine have limited work space. Combos have limited work space . Put the two together Hmm.

The other problem with a combo is constatly having to change set ups.

A Miro lathe from grizzly is $450 a mini from harbor freight the same.
Tin

 

[barnesrickw]

Taig lathes are smaller, but the price the price of a Taig lathe and Mill, you could buy an extra Griz lathe.


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[barnesrickw]

I looked hard at the Nano. Would love to hear from anybody who has used one. The one video I saw of it did not show me much.


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[Tanshanomi]

One thing I didn't consider up front is the cost of measuring equipment. If you don't already have a dial indicator, test indicator, a couple of different sizes of calipers and micrometers, plus a granite surface plate, you can quickly drop two or three bills or more to get decent quality stuff, even buying used.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Before you worry about lathe , any lathe probably need to think about basic machinist tool kit.

0-1 micrometer
6" rule
6" calipers dial or electronic.
scribe
square
layout hammer
center punch
Jenny calipers AKA Hermaphrodite calipers
small hole gages t gages.
thread gage.
dial indicator test indicator.
fish tail gage.
files.
A tool box
Maybe a good drill set.
and taps for sizes you are likely to need
2-56, 4-40, 6-32,8-32-10-32, and 1/4 -20 should serve you well. you may want or need 3-48 and 5-40 as well.

You or others may want to add to the list. but the above is a starting point.

A mill and lathe will do you no good unless you can measure and layout accurately.

My first investment in my home shop was a machinist chest of tools that belonged to a guy that worked for pratt and Whitney during WW2.
Cost more than my first lathe but a great set of old tools that still measure accurately


You may want to look at the beginners toolbox thread for more details.
Tin

 

[Brian40]

Hi Kenny
When I started one of the reasons for buying a mini lathe was that all the tools for it could be used on a larger lathe if I wanted to up grade in the future. the head stock is No 3 mt and. the tail stock is No2mt. and you will find a bunch of tools second hand at good prices. smaller tools tend to be more costly.
Feel free to have a look at my site (at bottom of the page ) and down load any of the pdf's for free
Brian.

 

[Swifty]

I think that if you have the minimum tools to start, others can be purchased as required to make the models that you want. Taps and dies aren't too expensive, but why buy a full set at the start, unless of course they are a bargain, just buy them as you require them. Most of the time I only need a 25 mm micrometer and digital vernier, if you find a need for a 50mm micrometer, then buy it later. I have a cupboard full of measuring instruments, imperial and metric, and other tooling, but most of the stuff is rarely used.

Tins list looks like a good start.

Paul.

 

[KennyMcCormick315]

Before you worry about lathe , any lathe probably need to think about basic machinist tool kit.

0-1 micrometer
6" rule
6" calipers dial or electronic.
scribe
square
layout hammer
center punch
Jenny calipers AKA Hermaphrodite calipers
small hole gages t gages.
thread gage.
dial indicator test indicator.
fish tail gage.
files.
A tool box
Maybe a good drill set.
and taps for sizes you are likely to need
2-56, 4-40, 6-32,8-32-10-32, and 1/4 -20 should serve you well. you may want or need 3-48 and 5-40 as well.

You or others may want to add to the list. but the above is a starting point.

A mill and lathe will do you no good unless you can measure and layout accurately.

My first investment in my home shop was a machinist chest of tools that belonged to a guy that worked for pratt and Whitney during WW2.
Cost more than my first lathe but a great set of old tools that still measure accurately


You may want to look at the beginners toolbox thread for more details.
Tin

Mmm, yes, measuring stuffs. Was gonna ask about that next anyway. Already have a good 0-1 mike though, which is nice. Never gets used aside from when I get bored and decide to see how many thou thick my truck keys are . Don't have any of the calibration measures for it, though, but then again even if it is off as long as it's consistently off things should still work anyway. Doesn't feel like there's any play in it.


What about the actual cutting tools?