Taper setting device

[Jonathan Coates]

I've hit a problem where I was going to machine a pin to fit in my rotary table to locate a hole at the centre of the table to rotate round and form a nice radiused end to a flat bar component. The hole, that I'd not looked at before, turns out to be a Morse taper, specifically a MT2. So it looks like a tapered pin with a normal parallel round section to fit my hole is required. Well the MT2, like all the sizes, isn't an easy number of degrees to set on the compound slide using the graduations. I'll probably get close enough for what I need by setting it by eye, but I was wondering about how it ought to be done properly.
Obviously a sine bar, stack of gauge blocks and a parallel bar fitted between centres would be the way to go, but would need more hands than I have to hold it all in place.
It occurred to me that if I had a pair of ground pins of differing sizes, a bit of calculation would allow me to set the distance between them using gauge blocks on the table, then fixing the pins at the specific distance apart on a slide of some kind, I could then use the gauge to apply the taper to my compound slide but without juggling all the parts.
Has this thing got a name? I suspect that this is something that exists but I've never come across, and it's probably old school technology like toolmaker's buttons (do people still have those?)
If anyone has tried making one, or better still has plans for one, obviously I'd be forever in their debt if they would share their experiences.

 

[Raygers]

Do you have anything with an MT2 taper? Set it up between centres and indicate from the compound.

 

[Jonathan Coates]

That's got to be the plan for tomorrow, thanks, I'm sure there's an MT2 in my pillar drill now that I'm looking for one. Just need to plan this jig thing for upcoming possibilities, like a D1-3 chuck mount taper and the MT4.5 in my lathe spindle nose that I need to cut. Both of these are known angles but are either very short, like the chuck one, or not very accessible like the nose taper.
On a side note, I'm just watching Blondihacks on YouTube where she's about to do the exact thing, so in half an hour I'll have even more stuff to do. Her's looks like a multi-diameter register pin where each smaller step lines up with each iteration of her parallels set to space the parts off the rotary table. I'm off to get another beer and watch the lady at work. I wonder if she's single?

 

[Henry K]

According to my American Machinist Handbook, vintage 1945: Big end diameter=0.700, small end diameter diameter=0.572, and taper per inch=0.049951.
Use a dial indicator and turn your compound around until, with a compound travel of 1 inch,
you get a deflection of 0.049951 inches.
The same data is probably in Mechanical Engineers Handbook and Machinery Handbook.
I have also seen copies of OLD American Machinist Handbook in pdf form available.
The Google Book version (very old but very good) can be downloaded at

https://books.googleusercontent.com...53SWSfoh2gJB_bcR9ImFsQvK7-eZIjFPA6fGRi0aAjnG8

 

[Henry K]

I forgot to mention. You must turn down the bar the bar in the chuck before using the indicator. This will insure the outside surface of the bar is perfectly parallel with the lathe axis. Now you use the dial indicator,
compound twisting and traveling procedure. Do not run the lathe when using the dial indicator. Be patient.

 

[PeterDRG]

I'm off to get another beer and watch the lady at work. I wonder if she's single?

I suspect she plays for the other team !

 

[Jonathan Coates]

I suspect she plays for the other team !

A man has to have a certain ambition, where there's a will, there's a way.
Many thanks for the information about setting the MT2 taper, its done now and looks, shall we say "workmanlike" rather than pretty?
WRT the original idea for the post, I was pondering some possible setting up device rather than setting a specific taper, along the lines off leaving the gauge blocks in the clean area and venturing into the more hostile environment with a pre-set thingy. Like giving an operator a go-nogo gauge rather than a micrometer.

 

[BaronJ]

Jonathan,

You could always use your gauge blocks to set the lathe tool angle, Or anything that is perfectly parallel or a square.

Set against the template ( a Morse taper ) ideally held between centers, to set the compound at the correct angle.

 

[paulrayner]

can't you use a broken/old mt2 drill/reamer cut the end off and machine what you want on the stub?

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Jonathan,

Here are pictures of the center that I made for my rotary table. Its MT2 and made from brass. I drilled and threaded an M6 hole through it so that I could not only use it to locate a work plate but to be able to pull it out when finished with.

Its taken a little while to find the pictures. I hadn't realised that it was so long ago that I made this. 31-07-2018, I've also used this in the lathe to hold work in the tailstock and the chuck. The threaded bore is also used for a draw bar on the lathe.

 

[timo_gross]

I knew I saw something like it. Seems straight forward enough to give it a thought.

 

[Jonathan Coates]

That video look very interesting, but he skipped the bit where he lost the slip gauges into the tangled mess of razor wire down the back like I dread. I'll have to make one won't I to see how it works.

 

[user 48964]

I've hit a problem where I was going to machine a pin to fit in my rotary table to locate a hole at the centre of the table to rotate round and form a nice radiused end to a flat bar component. The hole, that I'd not looked at before, turns out to be a Morse taper, specifically a MT2. So it looks like a tapered pin with a normal parallel round section to fit my hole is required. Well the MT2, like all the sizes, isn't an easy number of degrees to set on the compound slide using the graduations. I'll probably get close enough for what I need by setting it by eye, but I was wondering about how it ought to be done properly.
Obviously a sine bar, stack of gauge blocks and a parallel bar fitted between centres would be the way to go, but would need more hands than I have to hold it all in place.
It occurred to me that if I had a pair of ground pins of differing sizes, a bit of calculation would allow me to set the distance between them using gauge blocks on the table, then fixing the pins at the specific distance apart on a slide of some kind, I could then use the gauge to apply the taper to my compound slide but without juggling all the parts.
Has this thing got a name? I suspect that this is something that exists but I've never come across, and it's probably old school technology like toolmaker's buttons (do people still have those?)
If anyone has tried making one, or better still has plans for one, obviously I'd be forever in their debt if they would share their experiences.

 

[timo_gross]

That video look very interesting, but he skipped the bit where he lost the slip gauges into the tangled mess of razor wire down the back like I dread. I'll have to make one won't I to see how it works.

He claims, that the slip gauges will stay in place, I assume they are held by magnets. If you are owner of ceramic slip gauges you will have to invent something, maybe a clamp.

 

[IanN]

Hi,

When turning a taper on a small machine, the usual problem is the travel available for the cutting tool. A number of years ago I got involved in a discussion about ways of turning a precision taper on a small lathe and how to cut the taper in two steps, and how to pick up the first cut and contine it in to a smooth second stage.

This, of course, is the usual problem that we all face - how to do a job outside of the capability of the machine we are using...

Included below is a set of three youtube videos that take you through the steps of cutting a precision taper on a small lathe using the 'set over topslide' and the 'set over tailstock' method.

Introduction:


Set over topslide:


Set over tailstock:


Regards,
Ian

 

[timo_gross]

Hi,

When turning a taper on a small machine, the usual problem is the travel available for the cutting tool. A number of years ago I got involved in a discussion about ways of turning a precision taper on a small lathe and how to cut the taper in two steps, and how to pick up the first cut and contine it in to a smooth second stage.

This, of course, is the usual problem that we all face - how to do a job outside of the capability of the machine we are using...

Included below is a set of three youtube videos that take you through the steps of cutting a precision taper on a small lathe using the 'set over topslide' and the 'set over tailstock' method.

Introduction:


Set over topslide:


Set over tailstock:


Regards,
Ian

It seems to be more tricks out there than I ever can remember .
I guess a taper attachment is the investment version.

Or this contraption?



I fear I will need forever to get the tailstock "back to normal". Can the tailstock be shifted on every machine?
Yet another very popular contraption seems to solve it; a CNC Lathe. $$$ (I need one)

Greetings

 

[ajoeiam]

It seems to be more tricks out there than I ever can remember .
I guess a taper attachment is the investment version.

Or this contraption?



I fear I will need forever to get the tailstock "back to normal". Can the tailstock be shifted on every machine?
Yet another very popular contraption seems to solve it; a CNC Lathe. $$$ (I need one)

Greetings

Fascinating - - - a CNC lathe would be nice but I've got a big ol' girl here that could use a good taper attachment.

(Remember finding cutting internal NPT threads - - - that was less than 'fun' - - - chuckling!)

 

[Jonathan Coates]

The setover tailstock will be the favourite method once I make the 4.5 size Morse taper for the headstock. Would a less than 60 degree point on the drive end taper be a good idea, seeing as I'm making it anyway? Or more than? As the pointy bit will be less than coaxial with the workpiece, a good fit is going to be difficult. Then, let's make a hinged live centre (half joking) for the other end.

 

[BaronJ]

The setover tailstock will be the favourite method once I make the 4.5 size Morse taper for the headstock. Would a less than 60 degree point on the drive end taper be a good idea, seeing as I'm making it anyway? Or more than? As the pointy bit will be less than coaxial with the workpiece, a good fit is going to be difficult. Then, let's make a hinged live centre (half joking) for the other end.

Hi Jonathon,

The tailstock set over method would be better if you are going to make a long taper (longer than 75 mm). As far a putting a point on the end is concerned a 60 degree one would help if you are going to do work between centres. Don't forget to put a drawbar thread in the end if you are going to hang anything onto the tailstock end such as a drill chuck.

Though I do have an Emco 75 mm chuck on an MT2 end threaded taper with a M10 drawbar.

 

[awake]

can't you use a broken/old mt2 drill/reamer cut the end off and machine what you want on the stub?

Or better yet, you can buy a MT2 blank that is specifically designed for this sort of purpose. Of course, that may take all the fun out of it ...