Non-piston steam engines

[Richard Hed]

I've just realized that I haven't seen any threads about non-piston steam engines. There is a whole lot of them, including Tesla's disk engine that he claimed could deliver 10 hp per pound of machine?! Also there is the "Roots blower" with two lobed rotating "pistons", there is the turbine and others. has anybody built any?

 

[vederstein]

I built Elmers steam tubine and pump at 150% scale. It's a memory now. I gave it to my boss when he retired.

 

[Richard Hed]

I built Elmers steam tubine and pump at 150% scale. It's a memory now. I gave it to my boss when he retired.

Whoa, I didn't realize Elmer had a turbine pump. I will take a look at it. I thimk I have all of Elmer's drawings. That little pump was really sumthin, thanx for showing.

 

[JohnBDownunder]

I certainly can understand making this at 150%. I find much of Elmer's models are really small and can be really challenging to get right. Mostly because I'm still a novice at this fascinating hobby and fiddly stuff is a real challenge. Still I am getting there - snail's pace??
Don't care, I'm having fun, mixed with frustration and learn lots fixing my boo boos.
John B

 

[Richard Hed]

I certainly can understand making this at 150%. I find much of Elmer's models are really small and can be really challenging to get right. Mostly because I'm still a novice at this fascinating hobby and fiddly stuff is a real challenge. Still I am getting there - snail's pace??
Don't care, I'm having fun, mixed with frustration and learn lots fixing my boo boos.
John B

What kind of equipment do you have? My prob is not enough space in a small garage.

 

[Mechanicboy]

Here is my steam turbine with reduction gear and propeller shaft under test run.

 

[Richard Hed]

Here is my steam turbine with reduction gear and propeller shaft under test run.

too cool!

 

[JohnBDownunder]

Hi Richard,
My playpen is a garden shed about 3x2metre into which I have crammed a Chinese clone of the Seig C2 lathe, a Seig X2 mill, drill press, belt sander, 150mm bench grinder. Plus a workbench etc, etc.
Nothing is more than 3 paces away. In Fact I can turn around from the mill or lathe to sharpen stuff OR get a spanner.
Some Pics of my playpen and you will see that wall space is vital. Plus crowded. Then Mill and Lathe. My welder etc is under the bench, (drag it out to use).

John B

 

[Tom 1948]

You look well organized for a small shop. Congrats on utilizing a small space.

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Richard,
My playpen is a garden shed about 3x2metre into which I have crammed a Chinese clone of the Seig C2 lathe, a Seig X2 mill, drill press, belt sander, 150mm bench grinder. Plus a workbench etc, etc.
Nothing is more than 3 paces away. In Fact I can turn around from the mill or lathe to sharpen stuff OR get a spanner.
Some Pics of my playpen and you will see that wall space is vital. Plus crowded. Then Mill and Lathe. My welder etc is under the bench, (drag it out to use).
View attachment 120225View attachment 120226
John B

I see every wrench has it's own space too. I thimk my garage is a little larger but not much. It's filled with metal. i'm going to clean it out to make more space and organize it better as soon as harvest is over.

 

[Richard Hed]

Here is my steam turbine with reduction gear and propeller shaft under test run.

What was the design for this? Are the plans freely available? Is this "Elmer's" design?

 

[Mechanicboy]

What was the design for this? Are the plans freely available? Is this "Elmer's" design?

No plan available, it's my own design of the gear house with propeller shaft except the turbine. The reduction gear has a reduction ratio at 1:10. It has 4 gearwheel of hardened steel (gearwheel from EGR valve in Peugeot Boxer) in a bit SAE 20 oil bath in the gear house.

I has maked the steam turbine after the drawning of Elmer Verburg steamturbine with ball bearing.

Then i took the test with difference oils in the bearings.

Here are the tests of oils and measured revolutions per minute:
Work pressure= Mobil ESP 5W-30 / Air tool oil / Diesel oil (fuel for diesel engine as lubricant)

1 bar= 4700 / 13230 / 17600
1.5 bar= 6200 / 17900 / 25700
2 bar= 11400 / 21660 / 31500
2.5 bar= 15500/26340 / 36700
3 bar= 18600 / 28800 / 41800

The ball bearing get less friction with diesel oil as lucricant, it is sensitive for jet stream from nozzle. With high revolution above 15000 rpm, I can feel there are enough torque when trying to stop the turbine shaft. With heavy turbine wheel will give better torque in high revolution (saved energy in the flywheel with other..).

With less friction means less waste of the steam and fuel for heating the boiler.

 

[Richard Hed]

No plan available, it's my own design of the gear house with propeller shaft except the turbine. The reduction gear has a reduction ratio at 1:10. It has 4 gearwheel of hardened steel (gearwheel from EGR valve in Peugeot Boxer) in a bit SAE 20 oil bath in the gear house.

I has maked the steam turbine after the drawning of Elmer Verburg steamturbine with ball bearing.

Then i took the test with difference oils in the bearings.

Here are the tests of oils and measured revolutions per minute:
Work pressure= Mobil ESP 5W-30 / Air tool oil / Diesel oil (fuel for diesel engine as lubricant)

1 bar= 4700 / 13230 / 17600
1.5 bar= 6200 / 17900 / 25700
2 bar= 11400 / 21660 / 31500
2.5 bar= 15500/26340 / 36700
3 bar= 18600 / 28800 / 41800

The ball bearing get less friction with diesel oil as lucricant, it is sensitive for jet stream from nozzle. With high revolution above 15000 rpm, I can feel there are enough torque when trying to stop the turbine shaft. With heavy turbine wheel will give better torque in high revolution (saved energy in the flywheel with other..).

With less friction means less waste of the steam and fuel for heating the boiler.

View attachment 120241View attachment 120242View attachment 120243

Very interesting indeed! I thimk I will try this but instead of making square bottoms in the turbine blades, I will try rounded bottoms hopefully to reduce turbulence. Thimk that will work?

 

[Mechanicboy]

In general, there is not much problem with milled grooves vs drilled holes with filed openings in the turbine wheel. I chose to mill grooves instead of drilling out and filing openings so that there is no out of balance in the turbine wheel. Do not notice much difference.

 

[Richard Hed]

In general, there is not much problem with milled grooves vs drilled holes with felted openings in the turbine wheel. I chose to mill grooves instead of drilling out and filing openings so that there is no out of balance in the turbine wheel. Do not notice much difference.

What do you mean by "felted openings" ? I have never heard of that

 

[Mechanicboy]

What do you mean by "felted openings" ? I have never heard of that

Fault wrote, filed instead felted

 

[Richard Hed]

Fault wrote, filed instead felted

Oh, thanx for that. Yet, I am still not sure exactly if we are correctly communicating. I was looking at the square bottoms of the turbine blades and it seemed to me that a lot of turbulence would be created at those corners. Maybe the turbulence would use more energy in pushing the thing around? Or maybe less? Probably not much difference.

 

[JimDobson]

Great thread.

 

[JohnBDownunder]

Thanks Richard, "Organized" is relative and somewhat necessary in such a small space. However, what I did not show is the utter chaos on my workbench at the other end of my shed. I even resort to putting a piece of kitchen bench (a sink cutout) on top of my vise to get some work space.
Then I do try and clean the bench before the next model.
Actually here it is after a project.

But thanks for thinking I am organized.
John B

 

[Mechanicboy]

Oh, thanx for that. Yet, I am still not sure exactly if we are correctly communicating. I was looking at the square bottoms of the turbine blades and it seemed to me that a lot of turbulence would be created at those corners. Maybe the turbulence would use more energy in pushing the thing around? Or maybe less? Probably not much difference.

In the small turbine, not big difference, mostly of the pressure of steam is pushing on the vanes.. also not a advanced technology, but it works.