Flywheel becoming loose (setscrew is used)

[awake]

Late to the party ...

This thread originated more than 9 years ago, so quite a few folks are late to this particular party!

 

[Bentwings]

This thread originated more than 9 years ago, so quite a few folks are late to this particular party!

After I got home yesterday I began searching for more information on piston valve timing . I can now get the power piston exact location. TDC or BDC . So moving over I can measure the piston port valve position with the “ very near calipers” in relation to the i power piston , carting this a step further I just got the new tapered 1/4” 40 TPI ME die. So I can thread the 1/4” pipe with taper threads then chase them with the straight die. I know this is not perfect but it gives me the ability to make a 40 TPI screw that will screw into the exhaust port right over the piston valve . Effectively giving me exact position in relation to the power piston . So after viewing a number of videos , some consider these small steamers not worth the time to fuss with the port timing. The power piston does have clearance at both ends of its stroke for a cushion effect . This seems to eliminate the “knock”?that some larger engines seem to have . I’m assuming it’s a looseness in bearings. M little steamer has pretty snug bearings especially with oil in them .
It’s said the piston valve is better than the slide valve as steam does not push directly on it. One video noted the “wet steam” or “ vapor steam” that may have some oils in it. So that’s good . I’ll have some oiling anyway . I won’t get into real steam for a while until my boiler is done . At that point I’ll see what needs to be done as far as oiling . I do have an oiler available. As well as air compressor oiling .

With this I’m rethinking the timing issues.

Any comments would be appreciated .

I hope I’m not over thinking this . One of the race car competitors I ran into at the car show came ver and we re acquainted.
He said of all the racers I was type one that was toughest to beat. Quite a compliment. I bought us lunch.


Well another interruption . Another surprise doc visit . I should be thankful I guess the health people really take care of their people I changed the bandage on my hand to a skin colored one. Hope she doesn’t notice it. I tried to drill a hole in my finger. Fast reactions only allowed a small flap of skin to be peeled out .

Byron

 

[Bentwings]

After I got home yesterday I began searching for more information on piston valve timing . I can now get the power piston exact location. TDC or BDC . So moving over I can measure the piston port valve position with the “ very near calipers” in relation to the i power piston , carting this a step further I just got the new tapered 1/4” 40 TPI ME die. So I can thread the 1/4” pipe with taper threads then chase them with the straight die. I know this is not perfect but it gives me the ability to make a 40 TPI screw that will screw into the exhaust port right over the piston valve . Effectively giving me exact position in relation to the power piston . So after viewing a number of videos , some consider these small steamers not worth the time to fuss with the port timing. The power piston does have clearance at both ends of its stroke for a cushion effect . This seems to eliminate the “knock”?that some larger engines seem to have . I’m assuming it’s a looseness in bearings. M little steamer has pretty snug bearings especially with oil in them .
It’s said the piston valve is better than the slide valve as steam does not push directly on it. One video noted the “wet steam” or “ vapor steam” that may have some oils in it. So that’s good . I’ll have some oiling anyway . I won’t get into real steam for a while until my boiler is done . At that point I’ll see what needs to be done as far as oiling . I do have an oiler available. As well as air compressor oiling .

With this I’m rethinking the timing issues.

Any comments would be appreciated .

I hope I’m not over thinking this . One of the race car competitors I ran into at the car show came ver and we re acquainted.
He said of all the racers I was type one that was toughest to beat. Quite a compliment. I bought us lunch.


Well another interruption . Another surprise doc visit . I should be thankful I guess the health people really take care of their people I changed the bandage on my hand to a skin colored one. Hope she doesn’t notice it. I tried to drill a hole in my finger. Fast reactions only allowed a small flap of skin to be peeled out .

Byron

thats a clever method of connecting shafts I’ll have to remember that one.
Byron

 

[Bentwings]

thats a clever method of connecting shafts I’ll have to remember that one.
Byron

I’ll be watching for any movement . Fortunately I think I’ll now have a quick easy way to check on the eccentric position I’m not sure just how the main flywheel mounting is going to shake out I could use a shaft extension as ll have a outside shaft support with bearing in it once I get everything up and running I’ll be better able to see what I need.
Byron

 

[Bentwings]

I’ll be watching for any movement . Fortunately I think I’ll now have a quick easy way to check on the eccentric position I’m not sure just how the main flywheel mounting is going to shake out I could use a shaft extension as ll have a outside shaft support with bearing in it once I get everything up and running I’ll be better able to see what I need.
Byron

i have some collars that I use as a doubler against the clamp collar so it will be really hard for the “ working collar to move I didn’t want to give up the shaft space but better that than have something move . I finally got the flywheel bores cleaned out by rolling a piece of fine Emory paper around a drill bit and using it like a hone I think the thread hole was bent over as that was the tight spot I polished the shaft but I can’t see any reduction in size. Just nice and smooth

 

[Bentwings]

After I got home yesterday I began searching for more information on piston valve timing . I can now get the power piston exact location. TDC or BDC . So moving over I can measure the piston port valve position with the “ very near calipers” in relation to the i power piston , carting this a step further I just got the new tapered 1/4” 40 TPI ME die. So I can thread the 1/4” pipe with taper threads then chase them with the straight die. I know this is not perfect but it gives me the ability to make a 40 TPI screw that will screw into the exhaust port right over the piston valve . Effectively giving me exact position in relation to the power piston . So after viewing a number of videos , some consider these small steamers not worth the time to fuss with the port timing. The power piston does have clearance at both ends of its stroke for a cushion effect . This seems to eliminate the “knock”?that some larger engines seem to have . I’m assuming it’s a looseness in bearings. M little steamer has pretty snug bearings especially with oil in them .
It’s said the piston valve is better than the slide valve as steam does not push directly on it. One video noted the “wet steam” or “ vapor steam” that may have some oils in it. So that’s good . I’ll have some oiling anyway . I won’t get into real steam for a while until my boiler is done . At that point I’ll see what needs to be done as far as oiling . I do have an oiler available. As well as air compressor oiling .

With this I’m rethinking the timing issues.

Any comments would be appreciated .

I hope I’m not over thinking this . One of the race car competitors I ran into at the car show came ver and we re acquainted.
He said of all the racers I was type one that was toughest to beat. Quite a compliment. I bought us lunch.


Well another interruption . Another surprise doc visit . I should be thankful I guess the health people really take care of their people I changed the bandage on my hand to a skin colored one. Hope she doesn’t notice it. I tried to drill a hole in my finger. Fast reactions only allowed a small flap of skin to be peeled out .

Byron

M sitting here trying to get tiny things lined up and my kitty jumped on the table. Then she grabbed a small bag that had a shaft coupler in it that just arrived . She doe not play with anything hard let alone my stuff . But sh knocked iron the floor the grabbed the bag and took off. Cats are great at causing trouble then hightailing it out ofvthe area like nothing happened well it’s gone somewhere. Most likely under the bed. I’ll take a walk. Yup there it is an arms length under the bed. She is now curled up in her kitty carrier like nothing happened . At least I found t she could have smacked it under the fridge

Byron

 

[Mike Ginn]

Re fixing a flywheel. I use the Westbury method which just works. I'm sure it must have been described in the Forum at some time. I first came across this method in the Model Engineering Mag years ago as described by Westbury. I don't know if the method is original or falls into the category of "obvious". Attached is my use of the method along with the extractor.
Mike

 

[SmithDoor]

It is a great way too.

I use on air compressor flywheels. It works great just like tapper shaft.
I like mores tapper as you buy reamer off shelf for ID and test plug is on shelf too (aka morse tapper drill bit).

Dave

Re fixing a flywheel. I use the Westbury method which just works. I'm sure it must have been described in the Forum at some time. I first came across this method in the Model Engineering Mag years ago as described by Westbury. I don't know if the method is original or falls into the category of "obvious". Attached is my use of the method along with the extractor.
Mike
View attachment 135560

 

[Bentwings]

It is a great way too.



I’ve got a pile of shaft collars and couplers now I just got a jaw coupling for the larger joint flywheel it’s got a slightly larger hub but I have a coupling that will work it should be eas to remove the plastic spider in these small couplings make them hard to separate I could make a simple puller separated at some point but I have enough to do now. Also got rod stock for new piston connecting rods . I’ll add abou 1-2 threads on each end so there is more room for the jam nuts .


Byron

 

[Bentwings]

It is a great way too.



I’ve got a pile of shaft collars and couplers now I just got a jaw coupling for the larger joint flywheel it’s got a slightly larger hub but I have a coupling that will work it should be eas to remove the plastic spider in these small couplings make them hard to separate I could make a simple puller separated at some point but I have enough to do now. Also got rod stock for new piston connecting rods . I’ll add abou 1-2 threads on each end so there is more room for the jam nuts .



Yet another delay.
I went to drill a hole today with my cheap drill press. It’s actually be ok for a long time . I did a search to see if someone else had the same issue but nothing popped u
This is a female church mount with Morse #2 taper I cleaned it with acetone and carefully dried it then used bluing it looks ok it actually runs true for an old bench drill press . I reinstalled it and tapped it in . I was drilling tap drill for m 3 and it fell out broke the drill bit I didn’t give any warning . I’ve go this wicking blue lock tite, do you think this might work there is a very small hole in the bottom of the spindle but there realy is no way to put any cross hole it doesn’t have the tang feature.

Maybe I should just scrap the thing

Byron
Byron

 

[SmithDoor]

Morse tapper is about for locking on crack shaft. Brown and Sharp is a good tapper too but most do not have that reamer.
Boat prop use #2 Morse too.

Dave

It is a great way too.



I’ve got a pile of shaft collars and couplers now I just got a jaw coupling for the larger joint flywheel it’s got a slightly larger hub but I have a coupling that will work it should be eas to remove the plastic spider in these small couplings make them hard to separate I could make a simple puller separated at some point but I have enough to do now. Also got rod stock for new piston connecting rods . I’ll add abou 1-2 threads on each end so there is more room for the jam nuts .


Byron

 

[Steamchick]

I first used proprietary taper-lock bushes in the 1970s, to fit an alternator drive pulley onto an old motorcycle crankshaft in place of the original keyed pulley. (Not having machines or tools to re-create the keyway on the new pulley size). It worked fine, as have tapers since tapered wooden pegs and tapered holes were first carved and used many thousands of years ago... Some of the OLD technology was very good! I have seen a split-Tapered plug in a wooden wind-mill (many centuries old) that secured a large "gear" (Pegged wheel) to a shaft. Occasionally, the current miller would give it a tap to be sure it was secure, as evidenced by the lump hammer close by, and recent marks on the wood plug.
Enjoy!
K2

 

[Bentwings]

Re fixing a flywheel. I use the Westbury method which just works. I'm sure it must have been described in the Forum at some time. I first came across this method in the Model Engineering Mag years ago as described by Westbury. I don't know if the method is original or falls into the category of "obvious". Attached is my use of the method along with the extractor.
Mike
View attachment 135560

Finally getting out to the shoo today. I hope I can finish all the little tweaks I want to make . I’ve got couplers and shaft collar that just need minor machine work mostly lathe work. I’m going to have to cut reliefs for cap screws in the larger shaft collars and couplers but I think I make a simple round holding fixture or just use a small end mill .
I managed to get the chuck off the Mickey Mouse drill press I YHINK I’ll try and reinstall it with the blue locctite an put a weight on the handle to put pressure on it while the loc tite sets up

Byron

 

[DKGrimm]

Morse tapper is about for locking on crack shaft. Brown and Sharp is a good tapper too but most do not have that reamer.
Boat prop use #2 Morse too.

This taper lock bushing really works well. My version is shown in the drawing attached to my March 31 post, but the taper is not specified. I used 3.5 degrees (7 degrees included angle) that I matched up by boring the flywheel taper and turning the bushing taper without moving the compound setup. You can see the extractor nut on the big end of the taper bushing.

 

[GailInNM]

Byron,
RE: your kitty saga.
About 25 years ago I was manufacturing fully machined ready to assemble steam engine kits that had about 4 dozen 0-80 and 2-56 screws. One day I received a brief note from a customer that told it all in four short lines.
"Dining room table"
"Shag carpet"
"Large cat."
"Please send complete set of screws"

Gail

 

[Mike Ginn]

Hi DKG
I seemed to have missed your post! Yes it is vital to machine at the same setting - usually by cutting the collet with the lathe in reverse and cutting on the far side.

Interesting that Steamchick (K2) mentions the wind-mill gear being secured with a similar system. I now recall seeing it is use but it didn't really register (in my mind) at the time.

Interesting how we can all learn from the techniques of the past!

Mike

 

[SmithDoor]

Finally getting out to the shoo today. I hope I can finish all the little tweaks I want to make . I’ve got couplers and shaft collar that just need minor machine work mostly lathe work. I’m going to have to cut reliefs for cap screws in the larger shaft collars and couplers but I think I make a simple round holding fixture or just use a small end mill .
I managed to get the chuck off the Mickey Mouse drill press I YHINK I’ll try and reinstall it with the blue locctite an put a weight on the handle to put pressure on it while the loc tite sets up

Byron

I like see a rea

Byron,
RE: your kitty saga.
About 25 years ago I was manufacturing fully machined ready to assemble steam engine kits that had about 4 dozen 0-80 and 2-56 screws. One day I received a brief note from a customer that told it all in four short lines.
"Dining room table"
"Shag carpet"

"Large cat."


"Please send complete set of screws"

Gail

I never received the dining room table , Shag carpet or Large cat. But faxs missing screw , the wrong size sometimes a photo of some one else bolts (wrong color). I can see some losing 0-80 or 2-56. My shipping was 1/2" and larger bolts bolts in 5 gal buckets.
How do you lose that. I try everything including taking photos.
It was alway my error. I just add to price .
Metal building companies had same problem too they shipped by 4,000 pound pellet of bolts.

It is problem for any supplying screws and bolts.

Dave

 

[Bentwings]

I like see a rea

I never received the dining room table , Shag carpet or Large cat. But faxs missing screw , the wrong size sometimes a photo of some one else bolts (wrong color). I can see some losing 0-80 or 2-56. My shipping was 1/2" and larger bolts bolts in 5 gal buckets.
How do you lose that. I try everything including taking photos.
It was alway my error. I just add to price .
Metal building companies had same problem too they shipped by 4,000 pound pellet of bolts.

It is problem for any supplying screws and bolts.

Dave

no missing screws just tiny hard to hold screws we drilled and tapped holes bored counter bores drilled plastic spiders and made new parts out of other sizes today had 32 pound Main **** cat for bed warmer last night 10 pound tabby watched so nothing funny went on. Black and white patches the cat ruler guarded all of us.
We got a lot done today so I can now finish assembly not everything the way I wanted but some parts did not machine well or could not be held securely . I think I have what I need to get back in business. We threaded some brass stock with the 1/4” 40 TPI ME tap and die and made better holders for the small round dies also drilled ad tapped a bunch of brass nuts so I have jam nuts then made half a dozen 1/4 40 TPI brass plugs. I have been unable to purchase these so I cut them from hex stock snd threaded them fit perfectly. Have temporary mounting plate for the throttle valve. I’ll make a better one later. We didn’t have any suitable stock . I ordered a piece of stock for shaft extension in case I need it . I’m going to make plans for a step up gear box timing belt driven to drive the generator I got from PM research. So it was a good day. I repaired the busted parting tool. It only has taper on one side so it must be a cheap piece . I put an equalizing shim in the holder and honed the cutting edges it works now . We made a couple spacers to hold the small dies in the holder better much easier to use now.
Byron

 

[Bentwings]

no missing screws just tiny hard to hold screws we drilled and tapped holes bored counter bores drilled plastic spiders and made new parts out of other sizes today had 32 pound Main **** cat for bed warmer last night 10 pound tabby watched so nothing funny went on. Black and white patches the cat ruler guarded all of us.
We got a lot done today so I can now finish assembly not everything the way I wanted but some parts did not machine well or could not be held securely . I think I have what I need to get back in business. We threaded some brass stock with the 1/4” 40 TPI ME tap and die and made better holders for the small round dies also drilled ad tapped a bunch of brass nuts so I have jam nuts then made half a dozen 1/4 40 TPI brass plugs. I have been unable to purchase these so I cut them from hex stock snd threaded them fit perfectly. Have temporary mounting plate for the throttle valve. I’ll make a better one later. We didn’t have any suitable stock . I ordered a piece of stock for shaft extension in case I need it . I’m going to make plans for a step up gear box timing belt driven to drive the generator I got from PM research. So it was a good day. I repaired the busted parting tool. It only has taper on one side so it must be a cheap piece . I put an equalizing shim in the holder and honed the cutting edges it works now . We made a couple spacers to hold the small dies in the holder better much easier to use now.
Byron

no missing screws just tiny hard to hold screws we drilled and tapped holes bored counter bores drilled plastic spiders and made new parts out of other sizes today had 32 pound Main **** cat for bed warmer last night 10 pound tabby watched so nothing funny went on. Black and white patches the cat ruler guarded all of us.
We got a lot done today so I can now finish assembly not everything the way I wanted but some parts did not machine well or could not be held securely . I think I have what I need to get back in business. We threaded some brass stock with the 1/4” 40 TPI ME tap and die and made better holders for the small round dies also drilled ad tapped a bunch of brass nuts so I have jam nuts then made half a dozen 1/4 40 TPI brass plugs. I have been unable to purchase these so I cut them from hex stock snd threaded them fit perfectly. Have temporary mounting plate for the throttle valve. I’ll make a better one later. We didn’t have any suitable stock . I ordered a piece of stock for shaft extension in case I need it . I’m going to make plans for a step up gear box timing belt driven to drive the generator I got from PM research. So it was a good day. I repaired the busted parting tool. It only has taper on one side so it must be a cheap piece . I put an equalizing shim in the holder and honed the cutting edges it works now . We made a couple spacers to hold the small dies in the holder better much easier to use now.
Byron

im right in the middle of sorting the reworked parts out. I hope we got every thing .
The first thing I did at the shop was drop a small old ham coupling urathane spider on the floor . These are pink so very visible you can’t believe how far it rolled. It was like a ball bearing on an aircraft carrier deck one of the guys stepped on it is how we found it .
Byron

 

[Bentwings]

im right in the middle of sorting the reworked parts out. I hope we got every thing .
The first thing I did at the shop was drop a small old ham coupling urathane spider on the floor . These are pink so very visible you can’t believe how far it rolled. It was like a ball bearing on an aircraft carrier deck one of the guys stepped on it is how we found it .
Byron

I made an interesting discovery last night . I discovered that certain shaft collars fit inside the rings on the lovejoy couplers. All I need to do is drill and tap locking screws and I’ll have a short coupling that grips the eccentric as well as the crankshaft . Saves a lot of tricky work . Plus gives the adjustment I wanted . It’s not as easy as wanted but other than testing it should work fine and be secure.
I’ll work more tonight I hav a virtual doc visit tomorrow always something almost done with estate issues .

I heated the drill chuck as hot as my little torch could get it , about 450 deg F then pushed the spindl into the chuck and smacked the handle . I haven’t tried it but this is what was said to do to install the jacobs. I’ll try a 3/8” drill later . Everything got out of order taking it out to the shop last week end so I’m re organizing today we made half a dozen 1/4” 40 TPI ME blind plugs that I needed plus I drilled and tapped some of the brass nuts so I can have lock nuts where needed. I have a bag of fiber sealing washers too . Working on a gearbox for driving the PMR research generator model now too . It’s not a very powerful generator but I YHINK I may be enough to drive a couple LED lights for the engine area.
Byron