Flywheel becoming loose (setscrew is used)

Home Model Engine Machinist Forum

Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Thanks Gedeon, To be honest I don't have the right tools to make the key nor I know how.
Maybe the next best thing would be what Nick suggested, using a rolled pin?
by the way how much torque can 6-32 screw handle?

Thanks
Borna
 
Last edited:
I doubt there will be any issues with your current setup, although the screw heads in the end are not attractive.
 
Maybe the next best thing would be what Nick suggested, using a rolled pin?

What you have now, looks a bit ugly. But it works!
Maybe you turn a cover and slip it over to hide?


Nick
 
Thanks guys for the comments. As long as the current setup works, I can always make it nicer by place a cover over it.

Borna
 
Borna

I agree with the keyway. I have a 1/8 scale Galloway with .250 crank. I have a tapered key in it. I also have set screws one on top of the key and one at 90 degrees. When I broached the keyway in the flywheel I did not
go all the way through and left a taper. I then hand filed a key to thickness and top taper. Put that in and it holds. How well you ask, on
the governor side I had been taking the flywheel off and on making adjustments. I never tightened the set screws since I was taking it off and on. Well once I got it going I forgot to tighten the set screws. It ran at three differnent shows for about 50 hours before I noticed that one of the set screws was about to fall out.

The goal is to eliminate any motion that can continue to move with each firing cycle. If all is tight and you can move the flywheel with your
hand it is going to come loose.

Good Luck

Bob
Not use a clamping type of attachment so the shaft does not get damaged.you can get different bore and other sizes using flexible shaft couplings. By ing this you get around counter boring eparate shaft collars I like clamping collars so the shafts don’t get damaged. Keyways are good too you still have to cut the shaft and broach the bores
 
Back 1800's they used taper key.
Today some engine manufacturers use a tapper shaft and flywheel some morse taper.

FYI locktie does not work.

Dave

Hello all,

I built this engine and trying to start it for the first time. I noticed as the engine wants to start the flywheel become loose. I am holding the flywheel in placed with 4 6-32 setscrews.
The flywheel diameter is 5.5. Any suggestion as how to fix this without too much modification to the flywheel and crankshaft?


http://cdn.homemodelenginemachinist.com/attachments/f31/59459d1357071718-my-single-cylinder-engine-002f.jpg



This is how the flywheel is connected to the crankshaft.


Thanks
Borna


View attachment 59514
 
Hi Borna,
You can use some of the polythene line used in grass trimmers which fits down the threaded hole to stop the screws unthreading. Cut a piece about 2mm long, put it in the hole and tighten the set screw down on it. The screw won't vibrate out. I presume they screw into grooves to prevent the set screws from damaging the shaft. With a bit of plastic between the screw and the shaft you don't need to worry about damage to the shaft.
Regards,
Alan C.
 
Back 1800's they used taper key.
Today some engine manufacturers use a tapper shaft and flywheel some morse taper.

FYI locktie does not work.

Dave
rc model gas engines usually have taper with woodruff key. The issue is hubs are often aluminum. These expand as thy get hot causing deformation of the taper this then let’s the nut come loose resulting in thrown props among other things. I’ve been through this issue a number of times I’ve made steel hubs with adjustable timing rings holding magnets . By careful design a great deal of the steel weight can be removed without wearing the hub . Years ago I designed a number of hubs in steel that were within a few grams of aluminum monsters I YHINK there are still at least three on engines I still have . These have taper and woodruff keys I made a special puller for these too. In a box in Rc stuff I YHINK . They actually ere easy to service.
My current steamers have straight shafts only 6 mm do so not easy to make anything but set screw grub screw connections I have new clamp on shaft couplings coming so bye bye set screws . I hope I can fix the crankshafts I haven’t removed the flywheel yet , later today I hope the sad part is I knew this would happen as the holes were not straight in causing the flywheel to move until it stuck then the set screw was supposed to hold it . I could maybe grind a flat on the crank for the screw to bear on but not the eccentric as I didn’t know where it would be finally located . It will be clamped on now and adjustable . I was going to just make a new eccentric with the clamp on feature but I just can’t get to the shop and the boys are very busy. I managed to find the right sizes on the internet to make a coupling assembly . It’s not optimum but I YHINK it will work the single one I found does fit perfectly so I’m in courage’s by that I’ll try a test later today after I verify the timing positions . I agree the lock tite would not have held the fly wheel.

Byron
 
Your collar provides a good amount of friction between the shaft and the collar - now to keep your eye on it and see if it creeps over time. There is an oscilating load on the flywheel, but the torque due to compression is much less than the impulse torque from ignition.
 
Your collar provides a good amount of friction between the shaft and the collar - now to keep your eye on it and see if it creeps over time. There is an oscilating load on the flywheel, but the torque due to compression is much less than the impulse torque from ignition.
I have beam type shaft coupler coming for the engine to engine coupling by the time I’m done I’ll have several flexible vibration absorbing couplers to try. I’ve used all of them in various applications in industry. So far the beam couplers are pretty good. I’ve found they don’t take to high shock loads well but it’s just my experience they are supposed to be ok for this but when you have machine crashes bets are off . The weakest link looses hitting a retaining screw with a boring bar doesn’t do them any good either . I have old ham couplings coming to connect the eccentrics to the crank shafts . I have a single test beam coupling for testing as it was the only one available at the time . It fits perfectly and will have almost no load on it . It mainly a way to couple the eccentric to get crankshaft and provide adjustment . Once everything is back together I’ll begin testing and come up with setting numbers . I’m trying to repair the crankshafts now they won’t be like new but serviceable .

Byron
 
Hello all,
After reading all the comments I came out with a simple solution, but since I am new to engine building, I like to know if this will work and I won't be surprised again by this thing become loose again.

It seems to be holding very well. Do you guys think the two 6-32 screws are strong enough and will not break?

View attachment 59518
I like this solution of a clamp collar bolted to the hub. You can up size the hub screws to #8's for some more security.
 
I have beam type shaft coupler coming for the engine to engine coupling by the time I’m done I’ll have several flexible vibration absorbing couplers to try. I’ve used all of them in various applications in industry. So far the beam couplers are pretty good. I’ve found they don’t take to high shock loads well but it’s just my experience they are supposed to be ok for this but when you have machine crashes bets are off . The weakest link looses hitting a retaining screw with a boring bar doesn’t do them any good either . I have old ham couplings coming to connect the eccentrics to the crank shafts . I have a single test beam coupling for testing as it was the only one available at the time . It fits perfectly and will have almost no load on it . It mainly a way to couple the eccentric to get crankshaft and provide adjustment . Once everything is back together I’ll begin testing and come up with setting numbers . I’m trying to repair the crankshafts now they won’t be like new but serviceable .

Byron
ive got at least 6 iterations of clamping devices to clamp the eccentric and flywheel to the shaft I’ve got one that does both but additional ones are almost a month out I did some rethinking and came up with a coupling instead. These should be here today I even have some shaft collars that are split clamping both the hub or eccentric to the shaft . Also have flexible couplings to couple the two engines together. Even have a dead level and flat mounting surface so the engine crankshaft bearings are in slight also have a straight line up rod or bar to position the engines dead in alight. This all works well the crankshafts are longer on one end than the other so I’m almost out of room on the short end. The solution is a split coupler on one end and shaft extension on the other. I think there are at least 6 items to return to Amazon as they are items I didn’t order or were not what I did order . I’m think I’m just going to have to take these out to my sons shop and sit down and make exactly what I need. This should be easy. Chilertern has sold a bunch of thes engines so they have to be right but I’m just making thing complicated. I don’t like the set screw attachment and already had issues with it I see lots of engines with the same features but I don’t hear of issues maybe I’m just doing something wrong . I like to have things stay together an run when I need or want . I don’t like constant repairs or adjustments . I can’t complain about the engines there are lots of parts and every one has fit perfectly it just these set screws that have made this less than perfect . I’ll get it done one way or the other. It’s just fighting me all the way . I’ve had countless interruptions and now more estate issues .

I’ve got one engine complete so I’m goingvto try Irvin very low pressure as it turns over very easily now the piston valve timing worked for a short time but it far from where it should be , I think if it runs as is then I’ll set it up with the adjustable clamp mount I have . From there I can possibly optimize it I’ll make note as I go

Byron
 
Had that problem on my Atkinson Differential engine. I made a tapered bushing to fit in the flywheel. The bushing is split. The crankshaft is straight, threaded on the end. I put an "extractor" nut on the other side of the bushing for easy disassembly. It has held for twenty years.
 

Attachments

  • 5210.pdf
    183.3 KB
Had that problem on my Atkinson Differential engine. I made a tapered bushing to fit in the flywheel. The bushing is split. The crankshaft is straight, threaded on the end. I put an "extractor" nut on the other side of the bushing for easy disassembly. It has held for twenty years.
clever idea
Byron
 
clever idea
Byron
That’s a good point. There is a coupler between ebgines but it’s a nice one for vibration and intermittent loads as well as reversing loads . I also have some vibration absorbing ones with urathane spiders . I’ve used these in machine automation but not this small. I got sidetracked today so I’ll get into assembly tomorrow. I also have a number of split collars that can be counter bored . Possibly on both sides I just got them today I’ll sort and do some measuring tomorrow .

Byron
 
On a generator, I attached the rotor to the shaft by using a pair of water tube compression fitting olives and nuts, screwing onto the equivalent tapered connection to the water coupling that I machined on either side of the hub of the rotor... As the generator takes the full and continuous torque of power transmission, from shaft (input) to Rotor (driven), it needs to be adequate, and the double tapered brass olives suit that purpose. It also means that I could assemble the generator with a Silver steel shaft (nice and precise for the ball bearings) and a reamed hole in the centre of the multi-pole PM rotor. Of course, this does not take the pulsating torque of an IC engine, but suits my application. - You can see the brass nut that tightens the olive onto the shaft in these pictures.
P6172310.JPG

P6172311.JPG

K2
 
On a generator, I attached the rotor to the shaft by using a pair of water tube compression fitting olives and nuts, screwing onto the equivalent tapered connection to the water coupling that I machined on either side of the hub of the rotor... As the generator takes the full and continuous torque of power transmission, from shaft (input) to Rotor (driven), it needs to be adequate, and the double tapered brass olives suit that purpose. It also means that I could assemble the generator with a Silver steel shaft (nice and precise for the ball bearings) and a reamed hole in the centre of the multi-pole PM rotor. Of course, this does not take the pulsating torque of an IC engine, but suits my application. - You can see the brass nut that tightens the olive onto the shaft in these pictures.
View attachment 135449
View attachment 135450
K2
all of the clamping collars and couplings I have now have at least 1 or 2 3 mm clamp screws . Some clamps are split on one side but essentially clamp all the way around when tightened. As a set screw or grub screw a single 3 mm screw just is not going to work, and has already been proven I’ve seen others get away with this but I suspect they don’t run the engines long enough or often enough . I had a tough time getting the flywheel off the crank without causing more damage than what had already occurred. The single stainless screw had a damaged thread. I didn’t want to unscrew it through the brass flywheel so I managed to work it enough that I was able to get the flywheel off then I took my dremel with a very small stone and reached in the bore and ground the end off so I could unscrew the thing .it’s a trick poking a grinding stone in a 6mm bore especially with double vision but it worked ok so the thread hole is preserved fo some unknown purpose later I guess I just had the by weekly blood test so that’s the interruption for today . Now back to work . I have some split collars that are a bit larger diameter so I’ll see if I get these counter bored I’ll be able to use a collar on each side of the flywheel so it should stay in place better . The eccentric only allows for 1 clamp b it should not see large torque and it turns very smoothly. Especially as it is three piece with flat head screws locating the inner flange to the crank bore . I assembled these with a 6 mm pin representing the crank so they did fit nicely . All ther is i the hub to grip with the collar or what ever clamp I use . I thought about remaking them with a built in clamp but I just don’t think I can reproduce the tolerance and precision they have with our equipment. It’s a fussy thing as it is the finish on them is flawless almost polished . The threaded holes are blind and appear as cut with the cnc rather than done by tap with trimmed blind end . . I’m goingvto revisit them later .


Byron
 
all of the clamping collars and couplings I have now have at least 1 or 2 3 mm clamp screws . Some clamps are split on one side but essentially clamp all the way around when tightened. As a set screw or grub screw a single 3 mm screw just is not going to work, and has already been proven I’ve seen others get away with this but I suspect they don’t run the engines long enough or often enough . I had a tough time getting the flywheel off the crank without causing more damage than what had already occurred. The single stainless screw had a damaged thread. I didn’t want to unscrew it through the brass flywheel so I managed to work it enough that I was able to get the flywheel off then I took my dremel with a very small stone and reached in the bore and ground the end off so I could unscrew the thing .it’s a trick poking a grinding stone in a 6mm bore especially with double vision but it worked ok so the thread hole is preserved fo some unknown purpose later I guess I just had the by weekly blood test so that’s the interruption for today . Now back to work . I have some split collars that are a bit larger diameter so I’ll see if I get these counter bored I’ll be able to use a collar on each side of the flywheel so it should stay in place better . The eccentric only allows for 1 clamp b it should not see large torque and it turns very smoothly. Especially as it is three piece with flat head screws locating the inner flange to the crank bore . I assembled these with a 6 mm pin representing the crank so they did fit nicely . All ther is i the hub to grip with the collar or what ever clamp I use . I thought about remaking them with a built in clamp but I just don’t think I can reproduce the tolerance and precision they have with our equipment. It’s a fussy thing as it is the finish on them is flawless almost polished . The threaded holes are blind and appear as cut with the cnc rather than done by tap with trimmed blind end . . I’m goingvto revisit them later .
I’ve got a handful of shaft collars and couplings now . I’m just trying to get everything back together. The timing from the two cylinders is radically different but it did run there so I’m leaving it as is for now . My new mounting or clamping will work I YHINK I also ordered som metric end mills specifically to counter bore some collars. These collars are a bit larger in diameter so easier to hold and clamp screws are farther apart so I’ll be able to better use them . Drilled a groove in a finger so I’m working as field medic now . I have a clotting package that’s working I have to take blood thinners so cuts are not fun I’m not only trying to me a model steam engineer but now learning med tech stuff . I suppose I’ll have to file a safety report for shop injury .

Byron
 
Late to the party but I've built a few hit and miss engines and struggled somewhat with flywheels staying tight on the shaft. Had reasonably good luck with keys made from keystock which comes a few thou oversize, file to a good tapered tight fit. Make the key as long or longer than the flywheel key way, out to the end of the shaft. To remove the tight fitting key I tap it as big as possible in a 4 jaw centering chuck. To remove, use a slide hammer. I also put in a set screw that hits the key, drilled at an angle to come out as far into the bore as possible by holding the flywheel at an angle, gets more meat around the set screw. Works pretty good, sometimes another set screw on the other side of the flywheel. Use the biggest set screw that makes sense. YRMV
 
A piece of round silver steel is a good key. Drill into the shaft and tap the silver steel into it. I would do it between the 2 groves you have put in the shaft. Put a couple of o rings in the groves. On the pulley simply grab a square file or a small warding file on its edge and file the matching key way into the pulley. Broaches are expensive and this is how we did it years ago. Take your time and check constantly for fit. File it under size and work out to what you need to file the width to slowly. A Dutch key is also a good idea.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top