DIY Tesla Impulse Turbine

[Nerd1000]

Toymaker, If you can get a copy of "Model Steam Turbines" by H. H. Harrison, then towards the last few pages there is a method of making a multi-stage impulse turbine where the exhaust from the first jet stream is taken and doubles-back to make a second hit of the blades, etc. up to 9 times, thus extracting real useful energy from the rotor by multi-staging a single rotor. Plus some mathematical explanation.
Any use?
K2

This is the same as the velocity compounding in my spreadsheet if you want to play with it. I've made an updated 'final' version, but I think I'll post about it in a new thread so we don't keep clogging this one with non tesla turbine stuff.

 

[Toymaker]

Toymaker, If you can get a copy of "Model Steam Turbines" by H. H. Harrison, then towards the last few pages there is a method of making a multi-stage impulse turbine where the exhaust from the first jet stream is taken and doubles-back to make a second hit of the blades, etc. up to 9 times, thus extracting real useful energy from the rotor by multi-staging a single rotor. Plus some mathematical explanation.
Any use?
K2

Thanks for the book info,...
Hmmmm, originally published in 1909,....seems a bit dated. I have no way of knowing how useful this text may be without a review. Too bad Google Books doesn't have it,...yet.

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

Thanks for the book info,...
Hmmmm, originally published in 1909,....seems a bit dated. I have no way of knowing how useful this text may be without a review. Too bad Google Books doesn't have it,...yet.

My dude. Ask and I will usually find

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

Toymaker, If you can get a copy of "Model Steam Turbines" by H. H. Harrison, then towards the last few pages there is a method of making a multi-stage impulse turbine where the exhaust from the first jet stream is taken and doubles-back to make a second hit of the blades, etc. up to 9 times, thus extracting real useful energy from the rotor by multi-staging a single rotor. Plus some mathematical explanation.
Any use?
K2

There are papers out there, easy to find, on multi stage/compounded tesla turbines. They look promising. Single pass through multiple units.

Maybe one tesla for the blower and a second stage for the power generation?

blowing air is still the primary goal right?

 

[Toymaker]

There are papers out there, easy to find, on multi stage/compounded tesla turbines. They look promising. Single pass through multiple units.

Maybe one tesla for the blower and a second stage for the power generation?

blowing air is still the primary goal right?

Yes, blowing air is still the primary goal, and I will look at using a Tesla blower; I know the blower works, but I've never seen any numbers on how much compression they can achieve.

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

Yes, blowing air is still the primary goal, and I will look at using a Tesla blower; I know the blower works, but I've never seen any numbers on how much compression they can achieve.

Do you want to start a thread on your blower?

I'm very interested in building one to evacuate cutting oil fumes from my lathe and I'm hoping it acts as an oil vapour/air seperator like disc seperators due, but while also pulling decent air flow and being immune to abrasive dust. Practically no information on them out there.

Ideal would be exhausting clean air back to the cut.


Anyways, back to your show.

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

If you do go from one to two turbines in series, this paper has specific suggestions on tip geometry

https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/12/3/572

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

Yes, blowing air is still the primary goal, and I will look at using a Tesla blower; I know the blower works, but I've never seen any numbers on how much compression they can achieve.

check out the pump head chart a little ways in.

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

Yes, blowing air is still the primary goal, and I will look at using a Tesla blower; I know the blower works, but I've never seen any numbers on how much compression they can achieve.

Is the air you are blowing about volume, pressure, mass or velocity?

If it is about velocity... have you considered adding a flame can to the blown air to superheat your air stream a la thermojet?

 

[Steamchick]

Just found the thing on disc spacing, etc.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c10f/18a08e23bd052fd59d13774bec5dd578e31a.pdf

 

[Toymaker]

Do you want to start a thread on your blower?

Yes, eventually,...but I'm likely months away from starting any serious work on a blower.

I'm very interested in building one to evacuate cutting oil fumes from my lathe and I'm hoping it acts as an oil vapour/air seperator like disc seperators due, but while also pulling decent air flow and being immune to abrasive dust. Practically no information on them out there.

Ideal would be exhausting clean air back to the cut.


Anyways, back to your show.

Sounds like you want high volume, low pressure air flow. I need high volume but also at least 30 psi, with even higher pressure being better.

 

[Toymaker]

Is the air you are blowing about volume, pressure, mass or velocity?

If it is about velocity... have you considered adding a flame can to the blown air to superheat your air stream a la thermojet?

I'll get into the details once I finish the turbine parts, and have something to turn a blower. However, I can say "no" to heating the air flow right now,...I don't want to heat the air any more than compressing it & using it to cool the condenser, will cause.

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

I see. That's a decent flow for a steam powered hover craft

 

[Toymaker]

check out the pump head chart a little ways in.

That's the info I've been looking for; a comparison between centrifugal and Tesla pump. Looks like the centrifugal pumps a lot more volume, while the Tesla creates higher pressure.

 

[The Ignoble Troll]

That's the info I've been looking for; a comparison between centrifugal and Tesla pump. Looks like the centrifugal pumps a lot more volume, while the Tesla creates higher pressure.

Makes sense, the harder you resist a centrifugal pump the more it stalls and power transition drops.

The harder you resist a tesla pump, I presume the tighter the spiral would get, letting it transmit more power rather then less.


Or at least that's how my fuzzy brain sees it.

 

[Nerd1000]

I'll get into the details once I finish the turbine parts, and have something to turn a blower. However, I can say "no" to heating the air flow right now,...I don't want to heat the air any more than compressing it & using it to cool the condenser, will cause.

If the compressor efficiency is similar to the pump efficiency in that paper (about 30%) you might even need an aftercooler, as the air exiting the compressor will get rather hot. Kind of business as usual for air compressors, even the reciprocating ones need fins.

 

[Steamchick]

Perhaps it is a simple case of Physics? The higher the gas jet velocity, when slowed and converted into pressure efficiently (As "lost" heat is lost energy), "More velocity makes more pressure"... - And typically Tesla turbines are twice the speed (and more?) of conventional machines?
I like the tighter spirals, but think it is simply the rim velocity = gas velocity that counts...
I understand a De Laval nozzle converts pressure into velocity... but what does the opposite - efficiently? A rocket nozzle backwards? (LOW pressure & high velocity => Smaller CSA with high pressure and low velocity?).
K2

 

[Steamchick]

Just found the thing on disc spacing, etc.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c10f/18a08e23bd052fd59d13774bec5dd578e31a.pdf

 

[Nerd1000]

Perhaps it is a simple case of Physics? The higher the gas jet velocity, when slowed and converted into pressure efficiently (As "lost" heat is lost energy), "More velocity makes more pressure"... - And typically Tesla turbines are twice the speed (and more?) of conventional machines?
I like the tighter spirals, but think it is simply the rim velocity = gas velocity that counts...
I understand a De Laval nozzle converts pressure into velocity... but what does the opposite - efficiently? A rocket nozzle backwards? (LOW pressure & high velocity => Smaller CSA with high pressure and low velocity?).
K2

The opposite of a nozzle is a diffuser. For radial flow machines there are two types, vaneless and vaned. Vaneless is just a smooth annular space around the rotor, fluid spirals out and decelerates due to conservation of angular momentum. Vaned type uses diverging passages to catch and slow the fluid as it exits the rotor. If the fluid flow is supersonic a vaned diffuser will create shockwaves that decelerate the fluid to subsonic speed as it enters the diverging channels, kind of like the intakes of a jet fighter.

Vaned diffusers are more compact, vaneless better at handling off design conditions.

Probably the great difficulty for Tesla pumps or compressors is making a good diffuser. The fluid will be exiting the rotor as a stack of thin sheets issuing from the gaps, how do you avoid flow separation and turbulence around the disc edges?

 

[Richard Hed]

Thanks for the book info,...
Hmmmm, originally published in 1909,....seems a bit dated. I have no way of knowing how useful this text may be without a review. Too bad Google Books doesn't have it,...yet.

https://archive.org/search?query=Model+Steam+Turbines