CNC options?

[Bentwings]

I model cutting tools got the manual lathe as don and grand don havent had real big shop experience then we work on TIG. Welding stuff . I have limited vision so I’m just instructor I’m not even dupposrf to be around machinery . Just have to be extra carefull at all times .

 

[Bentwings]

I meant son and grand son above.

I’ve used dremel tool to carve small chip breakers in HSS reel tools then hone sharp cutting edges Nice radius so bird nesting goes away on light cuts or is a minimum . My latest. Ordered the mill it’s a round post and very hard to raise and lower do Z travel is limited especially with vice or rotary table I argued for a rectangular colum but lost the battle . It’s ok but not an easy machine to do tricky parts or ver precision stuff.

 

[Jasonb]

Do any of those that have gone completely to CNC use Wizards for common things like flattening a surface, milling a square or round pocket, Hole PCD, etc. From the recent posts it seems you all write G-code for these items.

Myself I do it all with CAM apart from maybe jogging to flatten and drill a bit of material to screw the actual part onto for machining, even then I may pick up the hole positions from the part and generate the code from that rather than jog. As I draw up all that I make in CAD these days even if it is to a published drawing it does not really cost me any more time to use the CAM

 

[CFLBob]

Do any of those that have gone completely to CNC use Wizards for common things like flattening a surface, milling a square or round pocket, Hole PCD, etc. From the recent posts it seems you all write G-code for these items.

Does whatever CNC controller program you have allow you to command one line at a time instead of just reading files? I'm still using Mach 3 and for stuff like flattening a surface, I can just put the piece in the vise on the mill, put the cutter off one edge and tell it "G01 first spot to last spot" in X or Y".

I also have my game controller I can use like hand wheels, but I have to stand there with it watching closely and I find it easier to just set the height of the cutter manually and then type in the few lines by hand. If need be, I'll go back to the starting position, drop the cutter as required, and then just repeat the previous lines. Mach3 allows me to just hit the up arrow key to go back to previous commands so it will retrace the rectangle I just cut.

I have cut round and square pockets that way, but only once or twice.

So I guess it's technically writing code, but depending on the size of the piece one to a few lines, never a file.

I'm still midway through morning coffee, so I hope that makes sense?

 

[Nibby2226]

Yes, I use wizards and one line commands. Some form of jog wheel is really useful.

 

[Jasonb]

Thanks, I suppose it is what you are used to and if you can write the code easily then probably best to stick with that. I would have thought a wizard easier as it's really just like using a DRO for say a set of holes on a PCD, you just enter diameter, number of holes and starting angle and the wizard or DRO works out the rest. With code you would need to manually work out each hole position comes and type that in which must be more prone to errors and take longer.

Doing it with the CAM I simply click the hole(s) on the 3D image and alter the depth if it is blind as default is to a through hole

 

[Mike Henry]

Do any of those that have gone completely to CNC use Wizards for common things like flattening a surface, milling a square or round pocket, Hole PCD, etc. From the recent posts it seems you all write G-code for these items.

I never hand write any substantial amount of G-code. I often use the MDI square up rough stock, though. Tormach uses PathPiot, a variant of Linux CNC, and that has a pretty useful set of Wizards, or conversational routines to write code snippets. I usually use SprutCAM to create programs for the lathe or mill for anything complicated or involving multiple tools and operations, even for what are initially intended as one-offs. Many of my projects are R&D "prototypes" that are (very) short run, though I've had a few medium-run jobs. The prototype jobs often get repeated a month or two later, which helps amoritize the CAM development time.

 

[timo_gross]

Do any of those that have gone completely to CNC use Wizards for common things like flattening a surface, milling a square or round pocket, Hole PCD, etc. From the recent posts it seems you all write G-code for these items.

Myself I do it all with CAM apart from maybe jogging to flatten and drill a bit of material to screw the actual part onto for machining, even then I may pick up the hole positions from the part and generate the code from that rather than jog. As I draw up all that I make in CAD these days even if it is to a published drawing it does not really cost me any more time to use the CAM

On the small Mach3 machine I did use the built in features quite a bit.
For the "newer to me" 2nd hand machine I usually do everything with the CAM program.
Or using a combination of jog wheel, MDI and +-Buttons together with the feed adjustement (big knob on the left).
I think there are even some "Wizards" on the machine, but it is all in in Chinese . I did not see that trying to figure that out would improve life quality much.
Changing the software to English would have been expensive, as well as changing the button panel.


Operation of the buttons, is based on guess work and memory haha....

 

[Scott_M]

Hi Jason
For me it is a mix of writing code, using wizards and CAM. It all depends on what I am doing. If it is a fairly simple repair job that I have no need to do a 3D model for then it will be hand written or wizards. If it is a larger project with many parts I usually model everything and then use CAM so I have a record of what was done and the ability to do it over if something is off or gets scrapped somehow ( not like that has ever happened ) My Tormach machines run Path Pilot which have some pretty nice wizards although I do not use them much on the mill, I use them extensively on the lathe. But after the wizard has generated a program If I want to adjust a few dimensions I usually just edit the code by hand instead of doing it in the wizard.

Scott

 

[Chiptosser]

I must be one of the few who use a full size machine for all of my hobby work. I have a Centroid Atrump knee mill with a Centroid control. You can switch between manual and cnc control. Also, you can do incremental movements to mill or drill and absolute movements. The programing is can be done in G&M code or the conversational with preprogramed can cycles.
The display askes you all the questions, values, dimensions, that is needed for the operation that you intend to perform hole drilling, lines, arc's, pockets, circles, squares, ect.
I bought this mill back in 1998 new, the computer is ancient by computer standards, but still works fine. The display is color, it show the different tool paths in different colors, so if you do a line move then a drill operation, the hole operation is shown in 3d, with the peck operation different colors. To clarify, the display can be switched between display(text) and graph. The graph actually shows you what you are telling the machine what to do. That way you can check your work be for pushing the start button.
This control is so much easier to use than any other system that I have use over the last 40 plus yrs of cnc programing..
I started in 81 with Heidenhain controls, fanoc, fagor, Analheim, bridgeport controls system. So to me everything else is a PIA.
So, in my opinion, if anybody is starting or doing small job shop work or thinking of doing any sort of work for hire, a CNC with the ability to switch to manual is paramount.

My life's experience!

 

[Jasonb]

Thanks for the replies. It is interesting to see how many use Code or the Wizards which I use neither of. Though I suppose it depends on what you are doing and also if you also have a manual machine to do the more basic stuff on.

As a quick example I have just finished a comission of a casting kit oscillating engine and only used the CNC for two items and even then did not fully machine them on the CNC.

The two crank webs were one item cut at each end of the supplied 1/2" x 1" flat steel bar. Adaptive to rough out, flat to machine the top of the spigot, horz to do the flat face of the web, a contour to do the spigot and another contour for the oval which I would consider a simple part but used the CNC as it is good for where curves meet flats. Fusion wrote 4500 lines of code so certainly not something I would (Or could) not write manually. I did the reamed holes and the other sides manually.

Th other item were the bearing caps these were rough cast with just a hump in the middle, I redrew with a boss for an oil cup and used an adaptive to rough out and then scallop with a 3mm ball nose cutter at 0.2mm stepover to finish, Fusion threw out 8000lines of code. Holes done manually.

So maybe it is just that I don't do enough simple parts on the CNC that I don't find the need to write code or use Wizards

 

[timo_gross]

I must be one of the few who use a full size machine for all of my hobby work.

Just for the fun: If I say "full size" to a Taiwanese who is into machining, they will think of a BT40 (or larger) spindle bolted to 5 tons of Vertical Machining Center
Sometimes I have problems, because tool sellers, seldom have an idea about torque range or power requirements.
Me: "How much power do I need to use the tool?"
Tool sales: "Enough!"
He did not even make a joke, they are so used to BT40 spindles with continuous power outputs in the 7-8kW range, that they just do not know torque or power requirements.

Greetings Timo

p.s. I do not own a "milling machine", it is a "tapping center", fair enough.

 

[timo_gross]

So maybe it is just that I don't do enough simple parts on the CNC that I don't find the need to write code or use Wizards

For simple parts. I often just draw up an oversized square, then add the feature e.g. a hole pattern and do the CAM. As long as I can find the center and z-height, there is no need to make a model of the real thing.

 

[CFLBob]

For simple parts. I often just draw up an oversized square, then add the feature e.g. a hole pattern and do the CAM. As long as I can find the center and z-height, there is no need to make a model of the real thing.

Likewise. I just need to find X0.000 because Y0.000 is the immovable jaw of my vise. Depending one what I'm doing, I can set Z0.000 with the "drill press head" on the mill one time for all the operations.

There's precision, like setting to under .001", then there's to <.005". Then there's lots of slack before you get to "close enough for 90% of all woodworking."

 

[rklopp]

I used to have a 1986 Deckel FP2NC with Dialog 4 control that I got for cheap. The most effective way to program it was by hand (finger-CAM). It was way ahead of its time and had many g-code "canned cycles" (wizards) that were quite efficient, as well as looping, parameters with math, and subroutines. It could do helical milling as essentially a one-liner in code, so thread milling was easy. The control would stall on Fusion 360 code even with "smoothing" turned on (which changes many small linear moves into a best-fit arc). The stalling left dwell marks in the work and was rough on tool life.

I now have a modern enclosed 40-taper DN Solutions VMC with flood coolant and automatic tool changer. It has a Fanuc control that does just fine with Fusion code. I prefer not to hand-code it, because rapids are nearly 5 times as fast as they were on the Deckel. A fat finger mistake could cause an expensive wreck in the blink of an eye. Feed-hold and Distance-to-go are my friend!

 

[awake]

Just for the fun: If I say "full size" to a Taiwanese who is into machining, they will think of a BT40 (or larger) spindle bolted to 5 tons of Vertical Machining Center
Sometimes I have problems, because tool sellers, seldom have an idea about torque range or power requirements.
Me: "How much power do I need to use the tool?"
Tool sales: "Enough!"
He did not even make a joke, they are so used to BT40 spindles with continuous power outputs in the 7-8kW range, that they just do not know torque or power requirements.

Greetings Timo

p.s. I do not own a "milling machine", it is a "tapping center", fair enough.

I have the same issue when I am trying to describe my equipment. For the typical hobbyist discussion, I say, "I have heavy duty, industrial tools - a Cincinnati Tray-Top 12.5 x 30 lathe and a Bridgeport." When I say that to a group of professional machinists who work with large and heavy materials, they just laugh and say, "those are flimsy toys that just barely qualify as machine tools."