boiler explosion. what not to do.

Home Model Engine Machinist Forum

Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Hi Byron,
No problem about being confused! Sometimes I offer the answer to the wrong question anyway...
Just to be sure: Will the stainless steel heater tubes be
1) directly exposed to boiler pressure, or
2) will they be in some tubes... essentially keeping them dry?

If #1, then the manufacturer's data sheet should tell you what pressure they can withstand.
If #2 then you need to calculate the strength of the boiler tube that contains the heater elements in compression, with all the distortion factors included.

OK?
K2
 
Hi Byron,
No problem about being confused! Sometimes I offer the answer to the wrong question anyway...
Just to be sure: Will the stainless steel heater tubes be
1) directly exposed to boiler pressure, or
2) will they be in some tubes... essentially keeping them dry?

If #1, then the manufacturer's data sheet should tell you what pressure they can withstand.
If #2 then you need to calculate the strength of the boiler tube that contains the heater elements in compression, with all the distortion factors included.

OK?
K2
One thing that has bothered me is that most bearing lube is done by just drip oiling. From observing various engines at th spring farm show there usually is a messy patch of ground around steamers snd hit and miss engines . My model is no different just drip lube or lubricated steam or air from the compressor. Certainly I’ll have a mess too but I have allowed for oil control at some point. Looking at construction creating a pressurized oil system like automobile engine would entail rethinking entire designs . As long as plain bearings don’t get excessive clearance almost any significant oil presence will be ok it’s nearly impossible to easily seal the average bearings on gear models steam I’ll is great as it was developed to counter these conditions but it realy needs the heat to make it flow properly and not get all gummed up. I’ve used ai tool oil for a long time in air tools and they seem to last forever . The mfg of my engine even recommends it as long as is drive by air compressor then switch to steam oi when running on steam . Now overloading bearing by souping up the engine needs some lubrication thought it’s easy to increase viscosity some ang get back to dynamic lube but there is limits too my engine has very tight clearance for a small model enginge I look at Rc model engines running 50 to one gas oil mixes. I did hat for a long time and never had bearing or piston problems but there lube is a constant spray of fine oil and gas. So maybe the dropper is sufficient I’d probably use mor dri oil volume in my model steamer than I’d use oil volume in a day of Rc flying gasoline is a poor lube itself but it sure can spread anything mixed with it. I’m glad my model steamer has easily replaceable main bearings almost as easy as car bearings . So for now I’ll not worry about them.
Byron
 
Going back to the super haters. I’ve continued reading to gather better understanding of them . The tubes seem to be right in the fire source draft or flow so obviously get really hot. In effect I’m reading they are a way to remove moisture from the wet steam. Dehumidifier in simple terms the pressure is increased due to super heating the steam vapor the pressure pressure comes from the change of state ofvthe humid wet steam. Thus adding lots of energy to the hotter steam . And efficiency ofvthe system . So suppose I added two or more u shaped tubes in the steam dome that went below my boiler to an induction heater now heating the steam vapor and returning it to the steam dome . A recirculating system . In other words boosting efficiency of my boiler . I have used induction heater in industry but not even close to this way I don’t think it would be hard to make as they are flexible design I don’t think aluminum or even copper tubing would be a good idea her. I have some smal diameter stainless steel tubing and making joints would be relatively easy . I’m not really looking to increase pressure dramatically but maybe make some much higher temp steam available . I may be way off base her. Obviously I have to study this process more I guess I’m asking how is this steam circulated or is it done as a result of rapid change o state
Byron
 
Hi Byron, post #122: Just do as the book says.... Air lube when on air, steam oil when on steam - internally, in the steam passages. But I use motor oil (5W30) all the time with no wear issues, except for the steam oiler (displacement lubricator) for engine internals via the steam feed pipe. In fact the displacement lubricator (the displacement is caused by condensing steam, the water draining to the bottom of the oil container and forcing the oil out) is normally "outlet at the top", but when I use air, I invert the displacement lubricator and using light machine oil (compressed air lube, 5W30 engine oil or 7W lathe bearing oil). It works fine, and having simple in-line connectors I can invert the oiler very easily.
Stay safe and sane.
K2
 
I’ve been reading about superheating most of the day. I’m glad you clarified the positioning of the super heat tubes. I did see them in numerous examples today . I think I’m going to stay away from super heating and live with the messy exhaust as the excess temp could get after my brass cylinders even with steam oil. I could modify or make new cylinders but I think I may be asking for issues. It’s bad enough I’m looking at over sizing the bores. I’ll leave the stroker cranks too . I’ll know a lot more once I get things really operational . I’ve got at least half a dozen stepper motors to convert to generators . I’ll probably have to come up with a drive train of sorts so I think I’ll slow down a bit I didn’t get my taps today so I’m stalled anyway I have in home doc visits tomorrow so I’m kinda out of business for the day . It’s now below 0 deg F and it will be cold tomorrow for afternoon walk .
This new hobby is very interesting. My younger son is building a couple big Rc warbirds so I’m helping him by phone . It nice that he has taken up a hobby besides his business even his kids are interested in model gliders. He plays town baseball so we went to the batting cage while he was visiting their season starts shortly so he wants to be ready I miss not playing myself and playing ball with him .
Byron
 
I just watched a couple videos of operating steam engines. They were puffing vapor and a slurry of messy oil out the exhaust stacks. I can see why there is talk of a condenser to gather this mess.
So what if one were to have say a stainless steel tube from the steam dome that would be carting very humid “ steam” and make a coil of several turns that would be heate by an induction heater in my case below th boiler to raise the temp and help vaporize this output then return it to the top of the boiler . I may be way off base here . This wouldn’t be a super heater but a reheater to attempt to remove some moisture from the boiler output . The way connections are looking I think I could test this pretty easily if nothing else I could simply vent it to the surrounding air . My question is how does this flow or would I need a blower or pump the super heater I looked at today all had some check valves in the circuits . I’m just honking it might flow from cool to hotter because of the extra heat input. It’s something I may try as I have everting I need as far as hardware . I think I’m still not understanding this I’ve seen the lab demos where the super heated steam lights a match and burn paper .
byron
 
I just watched a couple videos of operating steam engines. They were puffing vapor and a slurry of messy oil out the exhaust stacks. I can see why there is talk of a condenser to gather this mess.
So what if one were to have say a stainless steel tube from the steam dome that would be carting very humid “ steam” and make a coil of several turns that would be heate by an induction heater in my case below th boiler to raise the temp and help vaporize this output then return it to the top of the boiler . I may be way off base here . This wouldn’t be a super heater but a reheater to attempt to remove some moisture from the boiler output . The way connections are looking I think I could test this pretty easily if nothing else I could simply vent it to the surrounding air . My question is how does this flow or would I need a blower or pump the super heater I looked at today all had some check valves in the circuits . I’m just honking it might flow from cool to hotter because of the extra heat input. It’s something I may try as I have everting I need as far as hardware . I think I’m still not understanding this I’ve seen the lab demos where the super heated steam lights a match and burn paper .
byron
Once again this spell check is destroying my text.
 
I was wondering how to use the lubricator on air I have a standard airline lubricator but question whether it puts enough oil in the line especially if lower flow is used. I have a throttle valve for the engines so I can use line pressure to it . Thanks.
byron
 
I was wondering how to use the lubricator on air I have a standard airline lubricator but question whether it puts enough oil in the line especially if lower flow is used. I have a throttle valve for the engines so I can use line pressure to it . Thanks.
byron
I have to go through my box of parts I think I ordered a lubricator if not I’ll get one I just got the 1/4 40 TPI me tap and die so I’ll be able to install ne easily. I even have some steam oil I should probably get a little more . Just so I have enough . After seeing the slobbery message on the internet yesterday I’ll be sure to have a drain bucket . I also ordered a book that has steam properties and lots of calculations so I hope I can converse a bit better. I read quite a detailed discussion about steam check valves mostly related to super heating I didn’t see any model equivalents. I realy don’t want to get into all that if I don’t have to most model systems are just hook it up and run it . But I surely see need for something to catch steam exhaust. Air operation seems much cleaner as far as exhaust. I’m all set to start assembly as soon as I get the small metric tap set. Should be here late today . It’s cold and 45 mph blowing wind and snow so it will be a nasty walk up to the mail box.
byron
 
Though I see you have abandoned superheaters, this may not be useful but may be a consideration for future builds. My 7 1/2 inch locomotive has radiant superheaters meaning the superheater tubes come all the way back thru the fire box and return at the back of the fire box above the door. In the boiler they are, of course, inside a large exhaust flu. The superheater tubes are stainless. In the fire box the tubes are exposed to the full heat of the fire near the top of the fire box.

Years ago there was quite a discussion on whether superheaters were effective at model scale. I don't think either side prevailed. IIRCC full size superheaters only upped the thermal efficiency a percent or two but when you only have 12% efficiency to start with that looks pretty good!
 
I really haven’t abandoned super heaters yet. I’ve been looking at how commercial boilers work and possibly applying some technology . They all use some intricate valves that I don’t realy understand yet. There aren’t any model size valves like these. Pm research has some check valves.I’ll do more investigating I don’t necessarily need automatic valves . I just need a better understanding why valves are used. I haven’t really seen any model steam systems that used these small valves . Also I don’t now the construction. I may just break down and purchase one just to examine what it is made of. My current thought is to build a small independent boiler that is capable of handling much higher temp and pressures and add a super heat section to my boiler that would feed it . I can get gages so if I know either pressure or temp I can read the other from a chart that I have ordered . So far unless I’ve completely missed something I have not seen a model using super heat only RR locos possibly . There are. Few in the area but I don’t have contact with them. I have seen several condenser systems that I’m assuming collect the gooy exhaust mess and store it for later disposal. I can build something like these condensers. I had actually thought about it early on. I was planning on a better exhaust manifold that would have been directed to the condenser . I have two turbines and may get a third so they may require super heat to get torque output. I just have not gone that far yet . I can see some issues already so I’m looking into them too. This all looks so easy. Having played many sports most of my life I should know that nothing is as easy as it looks.LOL

ITS NASTY WINDY AND COLD BUT I YHINK ILL RUN UP TO THE MAIL BOX AND SEE IF MY TAPS CAME they are my stall thing right now once I get that fixed I can start the real work .
Later
Byron
 
You should get a little of the steam oil mixed with the exhaust as this is what lubricates the valves and pistons. Keep in mind that super heated steam is also dry steam. Wet steam that results without super heaters will provide some lubrication, but do not run the engine dry of the steam oil or you will need to soon re-hone the cylinder and possibly replace the piston rings. I always get a little oil on my face after running my steam operated 7 1/2 gauge Pacific.
 
You should get a little of the steam oil mixed with the exhaust as this is what lubricates the valves and pistons. Keep in mind that super heated steam is also dry steam. Wet steam that results without super heaters will provide some lubrication, but do not run the engine dry of the steam oil or you will need to soon re-hone the cylinder and possibly replace the piston rings. I always get a little oil on my face after running my steam operated 7 1/2 gauge Pacific.
Ok I’m getting a better handle on this I have an oiler and steam oil I also found PM Research has quarts bottles too so I can easily get what I need. So far what I’ve ordered from them I received in a few days . So I’ve come up with a couple ways to get super heated or dry steam . I need something to act as a steam dome. I’m planning on just tipping the boiler slightly to form a bubble at one end. Now one way would be to just add a 3/4” vertical pipe here and take my output to the engines out of this stack. There are induction heaters often used to heat buts for easy removal my son has a snap on set that works great. The price doesn’t work for me however. So I looked around and found numerous similar heaters just like that. So it would seem that I could add an induction heater to the “ stack” and have dry superheated steam near the top. Then take my operating steam or there I could also add a relief valve in there too . Picking some numbers say 150 psi would give reasonable operating temp livable pressure and dry steam I could also lay this parallel to the boiler operating the same way. The engine exhaust steam would be directed to a condenser tank. It become apparent I need a supply tank too. By making this tank capable of pressurizing like an air tank only with water in it for the boiler I could have a valve and pressurize the water tank to feed the main boiler , adjusting the main boiler pressure lower so it could accept water. I derived this from looking at commercial boiler diagrams. They have a series of valves and gages so this process is more automatic I’ll stick with manual for now. I center have some seamless steel tubing and I think there may be some seamless stainless there in the pile too. This whole thing has evolved in to pretty complex thing. But it’s no where as complex as twin engine Rc airplanes or even scale warbirds I’ve built and flown many of them from scratch, not kits so I’m well aware of the complexities. I really appreciate help and comments. Since I’ll be running in compressed air to start I’ll just use the small Milton quick disconnects but for steam I’ll need screw on connection. I don’t think the standard air line couplers will hold up long with steam or even boil water temp vapor in them. They leak bad enough as it is.
I see I just got an Amazon pkg. wonder what that is?
byron
 
Ok I’m getting a better handle on this I have an oiler and steam oil I also found PM Research has quarts bottles too so I can easily get what I need. So far what I’ve ordered from them I received in a few days . So I’ve come up with a couple ways to get super heated or dry steam . I need something to act as a steam dome. I’m planning on just tipping the boiler slightly to form a bubble at one end. Now one way would be to just add a 3/4” vertical pipe here and take my output to the engines out of this stack. There are induction heaters often used to heat buts for easy removal my son has a snap on set that works great. The price doesn’t work for me however. So I looked around and found numerous similar heaters just like that. So it would seem that I could add an induction heater to the “ stack” and have dry superheated steam near the top. Then take my operating steam or there I could also add a relief valve in there too . Picking some numbers say 150 psi would give reasonable operating temp livable pressure and dry steam I could also lay this parallel to the boiler operating the same way. The engine exhaust steam would be directed to a condenser tank. It become apparent I need a supply tank too. By making this tank capable of pressurizing like an air tank only with water in it for the boiler I could have a valve and pressurize the water tank to feed the main boiler , adjusting the main boiler pressure lower so it could accept water. I derived this from looking at commercial boiler diagrams. They have a series of valves and gages so this process is more automatic I’ll stick with manual for now. I center have some seamless steel tubing and I think there may be some seamless stainless there in the pile too. This whole thing has evolved in to pretty complex thing. But it’s no where as complex as twin engine Rc airplanes or even scale warbirds I’ve built and flown many of them from scratch, not kits so I’m well aware of the complexities. I really appreciate help and comments. Since I’ll be running in compressed air to start I’ll just use the small Milton quick disconnects but for steam I’ll need screw on connection. I don’t think the standard air line couplers will hold up long with steam or even boil water temp vapor in them. They leak bad enough as it is.
I see I just got an Amazon pkg. wonder what that is?
byron
I missed the first post. I can handle a little mess especially if I make a better manifold than the supplied one. Yes I’ll not run dry on live steam.
thanks
Byron
 
I missed the first post. I can handle a little mess especially if I make a better manifold than the supplied one. Yes I’ll not run dry on live steam.
thanks
Byron
After typing all this I looked up induction heaters on Amazon there are a number of suitable ones that offer customizable coils as well as blank coil wire. Something I forgot was just how much electrical power will I need? Most of the heater kits seem to be 1k watts . That doesn’t sound like much considering I already have 22 hundred watts heating the water . . I’m thinking the steam is more like air now so I’ll just be adding energy into it . It’s not changing ste just getting a lot hotter. I have a book coming dealing with steam so I’m hoping I can self educate and get better understanding of what is going on here.
 
Hi Byro, You have "crossed the river..". When you understand that steam is NOT just boiled water, but H2O as a gas, you are getting there. (Not sure how you did, but this is correct: "the steam is more like air now so I’ll just be adding energy into it ").
Water is boiler in the boiler and in the large space above the water you have wet steam: a mix of water spray, droplets, aerosol, whatever, and steam at EA+XACTLY the same temperature of the water. It is called WET because ANY loss of pressure or energy - after the steam has left the boiler - will result in MORE droplets of water condensing as the latent heat is used to compensate for the loss of pressure: Even a 1psi drop down the feed pipe is enough! - and more pressure drop through the throttle valve.... The the steam enters the valve chest - with further expansion and loss of pressure, then whistles past the valve into the cylinder - Wow! MORE loss of pressure - so the steam entering the cylinder has lost latent heat all the way getting to where we want it to do work. So now, all that hot water and steam is expanded in the cylinder (as the work is extracted to move metal) and the ensuing water droplets and remaining steam (Hopefully only a small fraction of what we stuffed into the cylinder) are discharged out of the exhaust.
- Now if the steam has had MORE Heat given to it after the spray and droplets from the boiler have been left behind - in the boiler where we want them to stay, courtesy of the steam dome - then this "Superheat" - meaning the correct use of the adjective Super to be "Above, beyond" - becomes the energy stored in the steam "Above" the boiling point of latent heat conversion of the change of state. So the external heater you plan for this is correct - except you DO NOT RETURN this to the boiler, but take the superheated steam to the engine.
Actually, many model superheaters do not release pure steam into the engine, because of "transmission losses getting the steam to the engine. Most static models I see at shows, etc, have bright shiny steam pipe in COLD air, without any lagging, so the steam is drastically cooled before it gets to the engine. I CRINGE! But MOST locos have superheaters that are long tubes from smoke box to firebox and returning in parallel to the smoke box before entering the engine. GOOD. This is how they do it on full sized locos, so these are correct models. But Thermodynamically, the firebox may be 400C or more... and the smoke box much cooler, say 200 degrees C or whatever, so the returning loop of the superheater tube (with steam at 400C) cools in the cooling smoke so it gets to the engine not much above the 200degrees of the smoke box! Yet still with some superheat when it gets to the engine. Long boilers have smoke that is cooled almost to the temperature of the "wet" steam by the time they get to the smoke box, and adiabatic expansion as they leave the tubes and enter the firebox - with the vacuum in the firebox from the forced draught - cause the firebox to be much cooler than desirable for the superheated steam pipes!
However, in the model boiler we cheat - the way full-sized static boilers do - by taking superheated steam from the hottest point of the superheat path and then directly take that to the engine.
For my vertical boiler, this means taking the steam out of the dome, down the flue to the firebox, then sideways straight out to the engine. On my horizontal boiler, and on simple commercial tank boilers for the cheapest models (e.g. Mamod), with a fire beneath, these take the steam from the dome and down to the firebox, and have a simple loop of pipe inside the fire zone. This superheated (DRY) steam then goes to the engine. My only problem, is that the superheater pipe exiting the firebox is usually TOO HOT and chars the cotton string I use to insulate the steam pipe. I have to find something else that can stand over 200C! (or let that bit of pipe cool the steam a bit so the rest of the lagging doesn't char! - I need to find glass-fibre string!). Therefore I have superheat on everything I make, so the engines run better. (More power in the steam that can be converted to moving metal).
Superheat also raises the pressure of the steam (NO NEED for a pressure relief valve on superheater pipework. Just use something that can take the higher temperature and pressure!), and when in the engine it allows expansion in the passages so only steam enters the cylinder. This steam expands as the piston motion extracts heat, until it has cooled to the condensing temperature, when the latent heat starts to be used and water droplets (vapour) appear. Then when expelled from the exhaust the WET steam expands more showing the plume of water vapour after the expansion has lost all the latent heat. It is nice to see a little gap of clear steam expelled before the water vapour plume starts - just like on a good kettle! This shows that you have more than enough superheat to keep the engine "dry" inside. So you can give the engine more overlap to use more steam energy and be more efficient!
Just a word on caution. Hot water (over 60C) and vapour can scald "a little" ("Scald" means "to burn the flesh with boiling liquid or steam: "). But real (Clear, invisible) STEAM will take flesh off your arm quicker than you can yell as loud as you can! (I have seen the scars on others!). This won't grow back! so NEVER stick a finger (or any other living flesh) in the CLEAR part of water vapour. I NEVER PUT ANYTHING IN ANY PLUME, as it is often hotter than expected and hurts.
Cheers!
K2
 
Hi (Again) Byron.
Now I realise you are still getting stuff together, but BEFORE you ever generate steam, you must understand how to destroy a reciprocating steam engine, so you can avoid doing that to your expensive model. This does not apply to running on air, but does apply to running on STEAM.
I have even seen "mechanics" and "so called engineers" - without prior knowledge or training, do this on TV - on a restoration project - AND DIDN'T know what they had done.
  • Steam pumped into a cold engine makes 100% water as it condenses in cold valve chests and cylinders.
  • AT "TDC" a cylinder has very little volume
  • Condensate (water and oil mix in a cold engine) is incompressible.
  • Blow a lot of steam into a cold engine, it will turn maybe 2 or 3 times then "BANG" - it will stop dead.
  • You will turn off the steam supply, then try and turn the engine, and after a bit of a twiddle, it will turn (or not, depending on what has been bent or broken!).
What has happened: The steam has made a lot of water very quickly inside the cold metal of the engine. This water, partly in the valve chest and partly in the cylinder, has increased in volume rapidly until there is more in the cylinder than the free space at TDC. Then you have generated an hydraulic lock!. The engine stops DEAD. Often it bends a con-rod, or blows a seal at the end of the cylinder, etc.
TO AVOID an hydraulic lock... you MUST pre-warm the engine as below to get the engine hot enough to run on steam safely - EVERY time you start it up. (The clouds of steam on locos EVERY time they leave the station!).
  1. When you have some pressure showing on the boiler pressure gauge, open the steam valve (REGULATOR) a little, to permit the smallest amount of steam to run to your model. This will also help overheating of superheater tubes.
  2. Immediately start turning the engine slowly and carefully the correct running direction. You will quickly hear some gurgling and sputtering as the water (condensate) is pumped through the engine, as it starts to warm-up.
  3. Continue until gurgling and sputtering is reduced a lot and some water vapour is coming from the exhaust: AND the engine "feels" like it wants to run itself.
  4. Carefully open the steam feed valve REGULATOR a bit more to permit enough steam to start running the engine slowly.
  5. When there is NO MORE gurgling and sputtering, you can open the regulator wider to bring the engine up to speed.
  6. When you reach running speed, and the boiler has reached an adequate pressure, switch on any load (generator, etc?). and adjust the steam with the regulator as the pressure varies, to maintain the speed you want.
  7. To Stop the engine, just shut off the regulator completely. I then turn the engine by hand (BAR the engine) a few turns to ensure any water is expelled. Also to feel for any loose bearings, etc. that may have developed.
During running, make sure all linkages and bearings have their adequate lubrication. You'll soon learn how much and how frequently you need to do the "fireman's duties:
  1. CHECKING water level and boiler pressure,
  2. FEEDWATER supply,
  3. Lubrication, and
  4. Manage the "fire" to maintain a steady boiler working pressure WITHOUT THE SAFETY VALVE BLOWING OFF! (That is BAD management of the boiler and fire!).
DO NOT LEAVE A STEAMING BOILER UNATTENDED - EVER! - I have seen boilers that cost £2~5000 that have self destructed (joints failed) because someone left them unattended "just for a moment" - enough for them to drop the water level a tiny amount below the minimum, and cook the top of the firebox to total failure of a joint.
(Lazy people use compressed air, as it can be left to run without being watched).
Enjoy!
K2
 
After typing all this I looked up induction heaters on Amazon there are a number of suitable ones that offer customizable coils as well as blank coil wire. Something I forgot was just how much electrical power will I need? Most of the heater kits seem to be 1k watts . That doesn’t sound like much considering I already have 22 hundred watts heating the water . . I’m thinking the steam is more like air now so I’ll just be adding energy into it . It’s not changing ste just getting a lot hotter. I have a book coming dealing with steam so I’m hoping I can self educate and get better understanding of what is going on here.
I just read an interesting article on steam oil by railroad tools in Cincinnati, Ohio

It talks about properties and history . They cater to modelers big and small so you don’t have to buy 5 gal pail of oil .
Hi Byro, You have "crossed the river..". When you understand that steam is NOT just boiled water, but H2O as a gas, you are getting there. (Not sure how you did, but this is correct: "the steam is more like air now so I’ll just be adding energy into it ").
Water is boiler in the boiler and in the large space above the water you have wet steam: a mix of water spray, droplets, aerosol, whatever, and steam at EA+XACTLY the same temperature of the water. It is called WET because ANY loss of pressure or energy - after the steam has left the boiler - will result in MORE droplets of water condensing as the latent heat is used to compensate for the loss of pressure: Even a 1psi drop down the feed pipe is enough! - and more pressure drop through the throttle valve.... The the steam enters the valve chest - with further expansion and loss of pressure, then whistles past the valve into the cylinder - Wow! MORE loss of pressure - so the steam entering the cylinder has lost latent heat all the way getting to where we want it to do work. So now, all that hot water and steam is expanded in the cylinder (as the work is extracted to move metal) and the ensuing water droplets and remaining steam (Hopefully only a small fraction of what we stuffed into the cylinder) are discharged out of the exhaust.
- Now if the steam has had MORE Heat given to it after the spray and droplets from the boiler have been left behind - in the boiler where we want them to stay, courtesy of the steam dome - then this "Superheat" - meaning the correct use of the adjective Super to be "Above, beyond" - becomes the energy stored in the steam "Above" the boiling point of latent heat conversion of the change of state. So the external heater you plan for this is correct - except you DO NOT RETURN this to the boiler, but take the superheated steam to the engine.
Actually, many model superheaters do not release pure steam into the engine, because of "transmission losses getting the steam to the engine. Most static models I see at shows, etc, have bright shiny steam pipe in COLD air, without any lagging, so the steam is drastically cooled before it gets to the engine. I CRINGE! But MOST locos have superheaters that are long tubes from smoke box to firebox and returning in parallel to the smoke box before entering the engine. GOOD. This is how they do it on full sized locos, so these are correct models. But Thermodynamically, the firebox may be 400C or more... and the smoke box much cooler, say 200 degrees C or whatever, so the returning loop of the superheater tube (with steam at 400C) cools in the cooling smoke so it gets to the engine not much above the 200degrees of the smoke box! Yet still with some superheat when it gets to the engine. Long boilers have smoke that is cooled almost to the temperature of the "wet" steam by the time they get to the smoke box, and adiabatic expansion as they leave the tubes and enter the firebox - with the vacuum in the firebox from the forced draught - cause the firebox to be much cooler than desirable for the superheated steam pipes!
However, in the model boiler we cheat - the way full-sized static boilers do - by taking superheated steam from the hottest point of the superheat path and then directly take that to the engine.
For my vertical boiler, this means taking the steam out of the dome, down the flue to the firebox, then sideways straight out to the engine. On my horizontal boiler, and on simple commercial tank boilers for the cheapest models (e.g. Mamod), with a fire beneath, these take the steam from the dome and down to the firebox, and have a simple loop of pipe inside the fire zone. This superheated (DRY) steam then goes to the engine. My only problem, is that the superheater pipe exiting the firebox is usually TOO HOT and chars the cotton string I use to insulate the steam pipe. I have to find something else that can stand over 200C! (or let that bit of pipe cool the steam a bit so the rest of the lagging doesn't char! - I need to find glass-fibre string!). Therefore I have superheat on everything I make, so the engines run better. (More power in the steam that can be converted to moving metal).
Superheat also raises the pressure of the steam (NO NEED for a pressure relief valve on superheater pipework. Just use something that can take the higher temperature and pressure!), and when in the engine it allows expansion in the passages so only steam enters the cylinder. This steam expands as the piston motion extracts heat, until it has cooled to the condensing temperature, when the latent heat starts to be used and water droplets (vapour) appear. Then when expelled from the exhaust the WET steam expands more showing the plume of water vapour after the expansion has lost all the latent heat. It is nice to see a little gap of clear steam expelled before the water vapour plume starts - just like on a good kettle! This shows that you have more than enough superheat to keep the engine "dry" inside. So you can give the engine more overlap to use more steam energy and be more efficient!
Just a word on caution. Hot water (over 60C) and vapour can scald "a little" ("Scald" means "to burn the flesh with boiling liquid or steam: "). But real (Clear, invisible) STEAM will take flesh off your arm quicker than you can yell as loud as you can! (I have seen the scars on others!). This won't grow back! so NEVER stick a finger (or any other living flesh) in the CLEAR part of water vapour. I NEVER PUT ANYTHING IN ANY PLUME, as it is often hotter than expected and hurts.
Cheers!thank you for the treatises. You have confirmed my studies. I initially thought of returning the super heated steam to the boiler but I finally got it through my thick head this would at best lead to increased pressures have a self imposed limit to boiler pressure . Also you confirmed my chase to find an easy way to get hotter steam and contain it . My latest idea is to have smaller heavier boiler to contain super heated steam. I’ll have a port to use this directly through an oiler and throttle. So I’ll have steam oiled “gas” to run the engines. This tank or smaller boiler will have check valves set up to gather vaporous “ steam” from the main boiler it can then be super heated thus replenishing the volume also I can have a separate valve to pressurize the water fill tank more or less filling the main boiler as needed. Yes it gets complicated but the valves can be simple ballbearing valves getting relief pressure adjusted by altering or optimizing pressures . The secondary storage boiler can have higher relief valve pressure to insure against over pressurizing I may have to use manual valves to get it stabilized during operation. My concern is how well the induction heater works. Your note also raises a question . If I build a smaller storage tank would it be possible to I use this as a super heater for air from the air compressor when running on air compressor. Again exit air could be steam oiled rather than light oiled . It’s contents would essentially be heated dried air. Again it would take some optimizing I’ve come up with a way to force the air flow over considerable heated surface I gues incision a labrnith type device increasing air contact with heated surface provided by the induction heater. This will be a try it an see. Thing. I have almost al the materials needed. I’m going to give my TIG welder another test to see if I can be visually steady enough to weld whe here Bessarabia . I have a good friend who can inspect my stuff so it’s correctly done . I’m going to work on some sketches an a process to create this. So far I have not seen much in the elevated temp pressure range beyond the RR guys so I’m kinda on my own I think. Depending on you guys to critique my thoughts I have some stainless steel seamless tubing and all the welding stuff to do this . I’m liking stainless as it does not transfer heat very fast so once the induction heater gets it hot it will stay hot giving heat off to the incoming air or vapor. Maybe a lubricator could be used as a collector for moisture driven out of incoming air or boiler vapor . Have to think about that one .
Dinner time
Byron
K2
 
I just read an interesting article on steam oil by railroad tools in Cincinnati, Ohio

It talks about properties and history . They cater to modelers big and small so you don’t have to buy 5 gal pail of oil .
my initial thought was to sort of skim the vapor from the dome and dehumifybit. But the concept of boiling point of water cannot change. Without increasing pressure . It just took awhile for this to sink in . I could simply raise the boiler pressure but for now I’d rather not do that. I think the heated steam tank will be better. I’m planning on taking advantage of the extra hot steam energy and effective volume to be enough to run my engines. It will be interesting o see how this plays out . I have a book on steam properties and calculations coming shortly so I’m hoping to learn more as I go . Steam is like refrigeration in reverse. I’ve done some automotive sc work so I’m somewhat aware of change of state and volume changes. I just don’t have the math yet. I just got the engine frames screwed down to the mounting plates tomorrow I’ll alight the crankshaft bores and start official assembly . I’m hoping to take a few pictures as assembly takes place. There are about 200 pieces with all the nuts and screws . Tapping m 3 holes in the mounting plates with a near foot long tap handle without breaking the tap was a real challenge being visually impaired didn’t help . As I was apprenticing in the machine shop the old navy guy my mentor would say there is no excuse for breaking a tap f you know what you are doing so start learning kid. LOL.
byron
 
Make a short tap wrench for better control, feel, and subsequent joy when you don't break any taps. A simple one from 2 off 1/4" square bars, and 2 screws to clamp them to the tap works well on titchy little taps.
K2
 

Latest posts

Back
Top