B.J. Cicada build

[werowance]

another question, after finding out my scrap cast iron i planned on using for the piston and contra piston isnt going to work out for me (pitted to bad, horrible casting) and not wanting to buy more dura bar and wait for delivery. i was wondering if i could substitute 12L14 for the piston/contra piston. the cylinder is cast iron dura bar. would the mis match in material be so much that expansion rate would be to far off between the 2 and cause a poor running engine once it heats up?

and the scrap i had isnt dura bar, it was window sache. the dura bar i used for the cylinder was nice as cast iron goes. certainly not 12L14 but it cuts decent

 

[hussien95]

Thank you for your answer, my friend.
I see a lot of these models on the internet and I want to know that they only need to diesel or materials that they need help to complete the ignition process.
Such an engine, for example,

I honestly new in the world of engine industry did I make any engine yet, for this I am looking for information to help me in the first engine industry
Sorry for my bad English

 

[werowance]

if i understand your question correctly, that engine in your picture should only need the correct fuel to run. no external ignition source required. i.e. no glow plug or spark plug. the compression in the engine is so high that it causes the fuel to ignight under preasure. the diesel principle.

there are different fuel mix recomendations out there. i plan to try the kerosein / castor oil mix when or if i complete my engine.

 

[jj-smith]

Hello werowance,

I just read the thread.., pretty cool build, I already learned a few things just browsing through the posts.

I'm rooting for your engine to run fist try, and when it does I'd like to ask you what fuel and aditives you'll be using.

I have an old russian diesel engine and could never get it go run at all.

I like your calm persistence to get it done, I can learn from that too lol.

Cheers, J.

 

[werowance]

jj-smith, thank you for the compliment. i am going to try the kerosein castor oil mix first and see where that gets me. i have read taking a small plumbers propane torch to pre heat the cylinder helps fire it up sort of like a glow plug pre heats a diesel truck or tractor. i am a complete newb to this hobby. i am enjoying it but some of the procedures scare the crap out of me. not litteral of course but i am just not that confident in what i am doing is correct so i have asked for alot of hand holding and have had great results with questions and answers here. everyone has been so helpful and i appreciate it.

 

[werowance]

i have started jumping around a bit on what i am working on due to needing material and just getting tired of working on the same part, so not to get burned out i switched things up a little. got some starts and finished a fiew of the small bits this weekend. the weather here compared to a week ago this weekend was great. even grilled some burgers outside. so i didnt spend alot of time in the garage but here are my results.

1. cylender sitting on the crank case - fins, bore and hone finished but thats all. the fins were horrible to cut, so much chatter out of that little thin parting blade. i found that cutting with fast feed force really helped with the chatter. go figure, i would have thought slower feed force would have been better
2. the cylendar mounted on the arbor i made to cut the screw holes and mill the flats
3. the arbor and washer for holding it.
4. skipping around a little - the aluminum blank to cut the carb body from. didnt have any 3/8 stock so cut this out of 1.0 stock
5. using a cross drill jig as seen in one of "tubal canes" youtube videos and a 5/8 end mill in the lathe chuck i cut the radius on the end of the carb mount lug that solders to the cylendar
6. finished lug
7. just an example of what the lug will look like when soldered to the cylendar.



7.

 

[werowance]

this weekend I completely ruined my cylinder I worked on for weeks:wall:
I was silver soldering the caruburator bung to the side of the cylinder and I ruined it.

i have experience silver soldering brass to cast iron and brass to brass, brass to copper etc. but never cast iron to drill rod. for the life of me i could not get it to stick to the drill rod. i ended up melting one of the ears on the cylinder. the pictures i am posting are after several attempts and after i had already ruined the ear and i cranked the heat up real high just to see if i could ever get it to stick. after each attempt i would re-clean the metal and reflux it but i just wouldn't go. it would stick to the cast iron but not that drill rod.

it took me at least 2 weeks to do the cylinder and just minutes to ruin it. after that i havnt touched my lathe and probably wont for a few days until i get over it

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Werowance--You have my deepest sympathy. I know how it feels, because I have experienced similar failures myself. I can not offer any advice about silver soldering to drill rod, but perhaps someone with more experience than myself can offer some helpful advice.----Brian

 

[Jasonb]

Got to ask the question why did you use drill rod? and for that matter why Iron for the cylinder??

J

 

[werowance]

Got to ask the question why did you use drill rod? and for that matter why Iron for the cylinder??

J

Jason, I used iron for the cylinder because I could never come up with L24 steel as the drawing called for, and looking at other builds the liners are mostly cast iron. Looking back today at this post I did http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=23342
you suggested 12L14 for the cylinder. I think that's what ill go for this time and a cast iron piston.
also figured, cast iron piston - then cast iron cylinder for even expansion rates between the 2.
but hey, if you all say 12L14 is the way to go, I love working with it just about as much as Aluminum or Brass.



as for the drill rod on the bung, my plans just say steel with no mention of type, I had a piece of scrap drill rod almost already the right size and was reall handy at the time (laying right beside the lathe) so that's what I grabbed. would you suggest 12L14 for that to?

I do have a concern on the 12L14, that's when heating it up to solder it, wont the Lead in it sweat a little and possibly cause pitting in the honed bore? I guess I could hone after the soldering but still what about pitting?

I have heated 12L14 to red hot before and when it cooled the lead had sweated out a little bit but this was on a solid bar, just wondering what a hollow tube would do?

 

[Jasonb]

I think when i said that I had not notoiced the stub that needs to be soldered on, so may be better to go with the unleaded 1214 rather than 12L14

 

[werowance]

Werowance--You have my deepest sympathy. I know how it feels, because I have experienced similar failures myself. I can not offer any advice about silver soldering to drill rod, but perhaps someone with more experience than myself can offer some helpful advice.----Brian

Thanks for the sympathy Brian. its such a disappointment, I was all smiles when I went out to the garage because I knew I was almost there, then I ruin it. it just ruined my whole weekend. hard to believe something this small that most would consider trivial (but not me) in the world and in life could bring me down so much this weekend.

oh well, guess ill lick my wounds and clean up the shop (pout as my wife calls it) for a few days and then get back at it.

 

[werowance]

I think when i said that I had not notoiced the stub that needs to be soldered on, so may be better to go with the unleaded 1214 rather than 12L14

1214 - had never heard of it until now. does it cut at easily as 12L14 or close to it?

ill take a look on ebay and a few metal suppliers and see what I can get

 

[werowance]

looking at a few spots like onlinemetals and ebay and a few others but not seeing 1214 for sale on them. I am finding plenty of deffinitions for it but not where to easily buy it. anyone got a metal supplier they like that would have it?

 

[Swifty]

It's a real bummer about the cylinder, I can only suggest that you got it too hot and the drill rod started to have scale come off it, that would certainly cause problems with soldering.

Paul.

 

[werowance]

I think when i said that I had not notoiced the stub that needs to be soldered on, so may be better to go with the unleaded 1214 rather than 12L14

Jason, how about 1117 steel as a free machining steel substitute for the cylindar? that alloy I can locate.

 

[Jasonb]

Sorry I'm not tottally up with the american codes. The 12L14 was the equivalent to our EN1Apb and the unleaded version 1214 would be the same as our unleaded ENIA

 

[werowance]

well after some pouting and some major shop clean up and shelf building I started cutting some metal again. I made a test cylinder and carb bung from 12L14 just for testing purposes to see if the lead would sweat out. I am pleased to announce it did not. the silver solder flowed nicely for me and no lead sweat or pits left from the heat. this makes me very happy as I love to work with 12L14 as the finish is better and I can make quicker cuts without as much effort. now just waiting on a piece of 12L14 big enough to make a real cylinder with fins out of.

once question, will the lemon juice and water solution work to clean up the part after heating like it does with copper? or will I just end up with a rusty piece of steel? guess I can test that but just wondering.

here are some pictures of the cylinder. outside diameter and inside bore are the same as the real one would be minus the fins and such.

1. part all fluxed up, clamped and ready for heat
2. finished solder
3. finished solder different angle

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Thank you.--that is good information to file away.---Brian

 

[Swifty]

Glad that you fixed the problem, just a thought though, keep the flux just to the local area as the solder will run where the flux is, and way too much solder on the part. This will help make a neater part and it's easier to clean up. Not critisism, just helping.

Paul.