Wise choice or not?

[74Sprint]

I've been doing some research and I've pretty much settled on buying a Ender-3 V2 3D Printer and use Alibre Atom 3D. Since this will be my first 3D printer and 3D software I don't want to spend too much to learn 3D design and printing. I know I can get upgrades for the printer to extend it's usefulness and from what I've seen on Youtube it has good quality. Alibre has a learning curve as with any software but, seems manageable and has what I need, I think. All of my experience with drafting is either with paper or 2D software, Visio and QCad/Cam. Most of my work is for prototyping so that's low volume but, I would like to make a intake manifold for my Olds 455 engine or at least a mold for one and use carbon fiber. Problem with that is the manifold is bigger than the printer bed/hot plate, so is it possible to split the part into 4 and then epoxy the pieces together?

Thanks for any thoughts
Ray

 

[mnay]

Ray,
I have an Ender 3 Pro. What a great little machine. I use fusion 360 software for the model and the free Cura slicer.
It is surprisingly accurate. I am very pleased with the quality. I have had the best success with a glass plate and Aqua net hair spray.
Mike in Salt Lake

 

[Jasonb]

I've made multi part patterns from parts drawn in Alibre pro and the mor ebasic Atom should still have all the functions you need. Mine were CNC cut but I should think you could join the printed parts OK depending on what material was used.

 

[74Sprint]

It took me awhile but I found a forum thread about how to do it in Alibre. Slice it in the planes and save the parts like A, B , C and so on. So Ender-3 V2 and Alibre to start with, thanks guys.

 

[stanstocker]

I've been quite pleased with my Ender3V2. It's my most recent printer, started with a mini rostok back in 2015. Far better print quality than my other printers typically. I have the parts but have not had time to install the BL2 touch sensor for automatic bed probing / leveling.

Depending on your needs, resin printers do offer higher quality prints, although the consumables are more expensive and the build area is usually quite a bit smaller than FDM printers. More infrastructure support with cleaning and curing requirements as well. But oh my, the print quality is certainly impressive in the same price range as many FDM printers. Figured I'd toss that in for consideration, may not be right for your needs.

CAD:
If you need technical CAD, there is always Freecad. It's free. I had a lot of issues trying to work with it, others use and love it. After the fusion 360 hobby version diminished in usefulness, I tried out freecad and just couldn't get good results, always over or under constrained and no clear indication of just what the program didn't like. It may have improved in the last year or more since I last used it. I ended up with Alibre Atom Workshop as I have two shop buildings so the two seat license works nicely for me. Meshcam Pro included in a bundle that costs less than Meshcam Pro alone. FWIW, I didn't have the issues with constraints in Fusion 360 and don't have them in Atom. Your mileage will no doubt vary. I don't think Meshcam Pro does slicing for 3D printers, at least not as a big strong feature.

For just making organic sorts of shapes, Blender is superb for many things but it is NOT a technical CAD package in terms of parametric modeling, constraints, all the things we expect in a 3D CAD environment. Great package, love it, but not for the things most folks here need.

Atom and Fusion 360 are windows apps, Freecad is open source and works with Windows and linux. Maybe Mac too, I'm not a Church Of Apple member so can't comment.

SLICERS:
Recently, SuperSlicer seems to be getting some traction. Cura is good, but it's a bit hard to find settings and sometimes it seems to order things oddly. Prusa slicer is also quite good. In any event pick ONE slicer and learn it well. Like any other CAM package, there is a learning curve, and while they all "do about the same thing", they are not all the same from the users perspective. I've used Cura for years, but am staring to play with SuperSlicer. Just need a few rainy days to play nerdy games

All three of these slicers are available for Windows, Linux, and I think Mac.

I wouldn't even consider Simplify3D any more, it's been two and a half years (4.1.2 released 5/2019) since an update and they still want $150 for what at least three other packages do better for free. It used to be worth it, particularly for larger prints on Delta style printers, but not anymore.

Hope this opinionated rambling is of use, have fun with it, plan on some frustrations too.

Cheers,
Stan

 

[CraigLD]

I have the Ender-3 V2 and am quite happy with it. I also have a Sidewinder X1 and now find myself keeping both printers running frequently. The Ender 3 has a 220mm x 220 mm bed and the X1 has a 300 x 300 mm bed and so usually select which printer based upon the size of what I am printing. I did do a few upgrades to the Ender which has greatly improved it. I added a magnetic hot bed build surface and PEI stick on sheets:

Tresbro Creality 3D Printer Flexible Removable Magnetic Bed Magnetic Hot Bed Sticker
PEI Sheet 3D Printer Build Surface

As a result, no additional adhesives are needed and prints come off easily.
I also replaced the bed springs which makes the bed leveling much more reliable.

 

[awake]

I too think the Ender is a good choice - not from personal experience, but based on a number of reviews from persons that I find to be reliable. As Craig suggests above, any printer can be even better with upgrades; some upgrades are very easy, while others may be more involved. At the very least, you will want to spend some time "tuning" the printer - making sure the belts and rollers are properly tensioned, frame is securely fastened together, etc.

I use FreeCAD as my primary 3d CAD software, and haven't run into any problems with constraints or such. As with any 3d CAD software, there is a learning curve, but there are tons of tutorials out there as well.

In addition to FreeCAD, I extensively use OpenSCAD for my 3d printing models. It is a very different approach, more like writing a program (as opposed to more like drawing the part as in FreeCAD or others). With some custom libraries that I have written, I can often put together a part more quickly and with more ease of tweaking using OpenSCAD, but that may reflect the fact that I am an old programmer.

For a slicer, I use PrusaSlicer - free, open source, and works beautifully. I haven't tried Cura in a long time; when I did I didn't care for it ... but no doubt it has changed and improved. I used to use Slic3r, which was the generic foundation on which PrusaSlicer was built ... but PrusaSlicer left it in the dust in terms of features, so I haven't touched Slic3r in a long time ... not sure if it is even still in active development.

FreeCAD, OpenSCAD, and PrusaSlicer are all available for all three platforms, Windows, Mac, and Linux.

 

[stanstocker]

I should have said that I really really really wanted freecad to work well for me, CAD is one of the few types of applications that require me to keep a few Windows machines in my life. I'm a linux guy by choice, all my other software works fine either in a windows virtual machine or with wine. Atom was a total pig on a VM and didn't even show vague signs of life with wine. I guess I should go back and look at Freecad again, might have been a weird quirk with some arcane setting on the linux machines or a specific release level issue, although my constraint hassles occurred on both laptop and desktop machines. Awake's post shows that other folks do use it without issues.

Do give freecad a try first though,there are good recent tutorials on youtube. It may be just perfect for you, sometimes I think there are just a few apps that I'm just not wired correctly to use!

Sad being a linux bigot but having to recommend Windows only apps in some cases...

 

[awake]

As a fellow Linux bigot, I share your pain!

 

[ajoeiam]

snip

I use FreeCAD as my primary 3d CAD software, and haven't run into any problems with constraints or such. As with any 3d CAD software, there is a learning curve, but there are tons of tutorials out there as well.

snip

I beat my head against the wall for many many hours trying to get FreeCAD to 'just work.
Sadly there are such a mountain of inconsistencies that I've stopped!
The engineers writing various tools seem to live in some incredibly constrained spaces.
Somehow they don't know about things like the differences between pip and tubing, bolts larger than small stuff, bolts with less common thread pitches and that's just for starters.
Conceptually FreeCAD could be a great tool - - - escept the dev people keep yanking it in about 46 directions all at the same time. Everything is good and everything goes.
The tutorials - - - - most are at least 1 version behind and far too many are 2 and 3 versions behind.
Then trying to figure out what they're doing as they click 13 things in a space of 3 seconds and then everything moves on to the next part of the example.
It would help re:constraints if there was some logic to the system.
When I build a box (out of metal) I cut my pieces (and yes I use tolerances - - - - another concept that freecad hasn't yet embraced!) and then I attach one piece to the base - - - at the angle specified, then a second piece is attached - - - usually one that by its attachment holds the first 2 in their alignment. The 3rd piece is like the 2nd and the 4th piece not only connects the sides but also points out any racking (is the item a rectangle or a rhomboid?).
In freecad constraints must be done in only ONE way - - - - yet when I'm building my box I've got lots of different ways of keeping things square and constrained.
That was what I've found frustrating and totally non-intuitive - - - especially as there just isn't a written out recipe that says something like - - - making a rectangular structure draw the parts in this order and constrain in this order.

But - - - I'm likely boring most of the audience.

Rest assured freecad could be a total kick *** CAD/CAM design system - - - IMO its got a long ways to go yet!

 

[awake]

Joe and Stan,

Would you be interested in working through a "real example" together? Not entirely sure how to do it - at the very least would want to start a new thread - maybe we set up something we agree to try to model, and then each of us describes the steps we take up until the point that we run into a problem. I am interested because, even though I certainly had a learning curve, I am not clearly understanding exactly what is not working for you, and why. It may be that I have drunk too much of the Koolade and just don't remember ... but I would very much like to understand so that I can offer more help than simply saying, "it works for me"!

Disclaimer: I am not a developer, have no vested interest, receive no compensation, etc.; just a mostly satisfied FreeCAD user who likes to help others in this hobby.

 

[ajoeiam]

Joe and Stan,

Would you be interested in working through a "real example" together? Not entirely sure how to do it - at the very least would want to start a new thread - maybe we set up something we agree to try to model, and then each of us describes the steps we take up until the point that we run into a problem. I am interested because, even though I certainly had a learning curve, I am not clearly understanding exactly what is not working for you, and why. It may be that I have drunk too much of the Koolade and just don't remember ... but I would very much like to understand so that I can offer more help than simply saying, "it works for me"!

Disclaimer: I am not a developer, have no vested interest, receive no compensation, etc.; just a mostly satisfied FreeCAD user who likes to help others in this hobby.

A wonderful idea - - - except - - - - for at least a couple weeks - - well - - -I'm up to my eyeballs in alligators!

I can wait - - - - - very much so.
Do you run a dev version or the long term one?

Working on ideas for say a couple examples.
Assuming this works - - - - I tend to take notes after the fact but do try to do so - - - - might even get a tutorial out of it - - - grin!

Humongeous thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[awake]

I understand that, and am in no hurry. Agreed that this could turn into a tutorial - perhaps something aimed specifically at the model engineering audience.

I am using the stable .19 release:

OS: Ubuntu 21.04 (ubuntu:GNOME/ubuntu)
Word size of OS: 64-bit
Word size of FreeCAD: 64-bit
Version: 0.19.
Build type: Release
Python version: 3.9.2
Qt version: 5.15.2
Coin version: 4.0.0
OCC version: 7.5.1
Locale: English/United States (en_US)

 

[EMF]

I beat my head against the wall for many many hours trying to get FreeCAD to 'just work.
Sadly there are such a mountain of inconsistencies that I've stopped!
The engineers writing various tools seem to live in some incredibly constrained spaces.
Somehow they don't know about things like the differences between pip and tubing, bolts larger than small stuff, bolts with less common thread pitches and that's just for starters.
Conceptually FreeCAD could be a great tool - - - escept the dev people keep yanking it in about 46 directions all at the same time. Everything is good and everything goes.
The tutorials - - - - most are at least 1 version behind and far too many are 2 and 3 versions behind.
Then trying to figure out what they're doing as they click 13 things in a space of 3 seconds and then everything moves on to the next part of the example.
It would help re:constraints if there was some logic to the system.
When I build a box (out of metal) I cut my pieces (and yes I use tolerances - - - - another concept that freecad hasn't yet embraced!) and then I attach one piece to the base - - - at the angle specified, then a second piece is attached - - - usually one that by its attachment holds the first 2 in their alignment. The 3rd piece is like the 2nd and the 4th piece not only connects the sides but also points out any racking (is the item a rectangle or a rhomboid?).
In freecad constraints must be done in only ONE way - - - - yet when I'm building my box I've got lots of different ways of keeping things square and constrained.
That was what I've found frustrating and totally non-intuitive - - - especially as there just isn't a written out recipe that says something like - - - making a rectangular structure draw the parts in this order and constrain in this order.

But - - - I'm likely boring most of the audience.

Rest assured freecad could be a total kick *** CAD/CAM design system - - - IMO its got a long ways to go yet!

I'm with you but got a different version of freecad that has been modified to eliminate some of the problems and got a book of tutorials:
"Freecad 0.19 Learn by doing" from amazon." by Kishore. [email protected].
OS: Windows 8.1 Version 6.3 (Build 9600)
Word size of OS: 64-bit
Word size of FreeCAD: 64-bit
Version: 2021.1015.24301 +3962 (Git)
Build type: Release
Branch: LinkStage3
Hash: c6cb39697eb439caf7e5bd0208ca3082a7820547
Python version: 3.8.6+
Qt version: 5.15.2
Coin version: 4.0.1
OCC version: 7.5.0
Locale: English/United States (en_US)
go to youtube and watch .

I'm picking it up pretty well once I got past the first chapter in the book. You just need to spend a lot of time learning.

good luck

jim

 

[74Sprint]

I've been quite pleased with my Ender3V2. It's my most recent printer, started with a mini rostok back in 2015. Far better print quality than my other printers typically. I have the parts but have not had time to install the BL2 touch sensor for automatic bed probing / leveling.

Depending on your needs, resin printers do offer higher quality prints, although the consumables are more expensive and the build area is usually quite a bit smaller than FDM printers. More infrastructure support with cleaning and curing requirements as well. But oh my, the print quality is certainly impressive in the same price range as many FDM printers. Figured I'd toss that in for consideration, may not be right for your needs.

CAD:
If you need technical CAD, there is always Freecad. It's free. I had a lot of issues trying to work with it, others use and love it. After the fusion 360 hobby version diminished in usefulness, I tried out freecad and just couldn't get good results, always over or under constrained and no clear indication of just what the program didn't like. It may have improved in the last year or more since I last used it. I ended up with Alibre Atom Workshop as I have two shop buildings so the two seat license works nicely for me. Meshcam Pro included in a bundle that costs less than Meshcam Pro alone. FWIW, I didn't have the issues with constraints in Fusion 360 and don't have them in Atom. Your mileage will no doubt vary. I don't think Meshcam Pro does slicing for 3D printers, at least not as a big strong feature.

For just making organic sorts of shapes, Blender is superb for many things but it is NOT a technical CAD package in terms of parametric modeling, constraints, all the things we expect in a 3D CAD environment. Great package, love it, but not for the things most folks here need.

Atom and Fusion 360 are windows apps, Freecad is open source and works with Windows and linux. Maybe Mac too, I'm not a Church Of Apple member so can't comment.

SLICERS:
Recently, SuperSlicer seems to be getting some traction. Cura is good, but it's a bit hard to find settings and sometimes it seems to order things oddly. Prusa slicer is also quite good. In any event pick ONE slicer and learn it well. Like any other CAM package, there is a learning curve, and while they all "do about the same thing", they are not all the same from the users perspective. I've used Cura for years, but am staring to play with SuperSlicer. Just need a few rainy days to play nerdy games

All three of these slicers are available for Windows, Linux, and I think Mac.

I wouldn't even consider Simplify3D any more, it's been two and a half years (4.1.2 released 5/2019) since an update and they still want $150 for what at least three other packages do better for free. It used to be worth it, particularly for larger prints on Delta style printers, but not anymore.

Hope this opinionated rambling is of use, have fun with it, plan on some frustrations too.

Cheers,
Stan

I thought if I use Alibre I didn't need a slicer such as SuperSlicer. Mind you I don't know the total functionality of a slicer is. I guess I need to learn more yet, ah nuts.

I have the Ender-3 V2 and am quite happy with it. I also have a Sidewinder X1 and now find myself keeping both printers running frequently. The Ender 3 has a 220mm x 220 mm bed and the X1 has a 300 x 300 mm bed and so usually select which printer based upon the size of what I am printing. I did do a few upgrades to the Ender which has greatly improved it. I added a magnetic hot bed build surface and PEI stick on sheets:

Tresbro Creality 3D Printer Flexible Removable Magnetic Bed Magnetic Hot Bed Sticker
PEI Sheet 3D Printer Build Surface

As a result, no additional adhesives are needed and prints come off easily.
I also replaced the bed springs which makes the bed leveling much more reliable.

I watched a video on upgrading the bed on the Ender 3 V2 to a much larger bed but, I can't remember what the size was. I think it might have been 400mm x 400mm. But it was nice to see that there is a bunch of mods available for the Ender 3 V2.

I too think the Ender is a good choice - not from personal experience, but based on a number of reviews from persons that I find to be reliable. As Craig suggests above, any printer can be even better with upgrades; some upgrades are very easy, while others may be more involved. At the very least, you will want to spend some time "tuning" the printer - making sure the belts and rollers are properly tensioned, frame is securely fastened together, etc.

I use FreeCAD as my primary 3d CAD software, and haven't run into any problems with constraints or such. As with any 3d CAD software, there is a learning curve, but there are tons of tutorials out there as well.

In addition to FreeCAD, I extensively use OpenSCAD for my 3d printing models. It is a very different approach, more like writing a program (as opposed to more like drawing the part as in FreeCAD or others). With some custom libraries that I have written, I can often put together a part more quickly and with more ease of tweaking using OpenSCAD, but that may reflect the fact that I am an old programmer.

For a slicer, I use PrusaSlicer - free, open source, and works beautifully. I haven't tried Cura in a long time; when I did I didn't care for it ... but no doubt it has changed and improved. I used to use Slic3r, which was the generic foundation on which PrusaSlicer was built ... but PrusaSlicer left it in the dust in terms of features, so I haven't touched Slic3r in a long time ... not sure if it is even still in active development.

FreeCAD, OpenSCAD, and PrusaSlicer are all available for all three platforms, Windows, Mac, and Linux.

Since I'm starting out fresh I'll be trying lots of software before I actually purchase a package. I'm sick and tired of spending thousands of dollars on software that ends up on the wall of useless. Since I'm a software programmer and I do electronic circuit boards I have I have software packages that are over 30 years old, for 8 bit to 64 bit, from DOS to Win10. Seems like when I just get really use to a program the developer stops supporting it or i have to upgrade my computer every 5 years. As a programmer and a seller of electronic parts I know that if the developers don't make changes then sales drop off but, I would like to see it happen when I'm ready, LOL. I have a older but still useful work-station (2 cores x 2 CPUs) that's going Linux for CNC stuff.

I should have said that I really really really wanted freecad to work well for me, CAD is one of the few types of applications that require me to keep a few Windows machines in my life. I'm a linux guy by choice, all my other software works fine either in a windows virtual machine or with wine. Atom was a total pig on a VM and didn't even show vague signs of life with wine. I guess I should go back and look at Freecad again, might have been a weird quirk with some arcane setting on the linux machines or a specific release level issue, although my constraint hassles occurred on both laptop and desktop machines. Awake's post shows that other folks do use it without issues.

Do give freecad a try first though,there are good recent tutorials on youtube. It may be just perfect for you, sometimes I think there are just a few apps that I'm just not wired correctly to use!

Sad being a linux bigot but having to recommend Windows only apps in some cases...

I hear yuh. Whenever I look at or work with Linux I get flashbacks to my UNIX days in the military, LOL Yup I download FreeCAD and I'm going to look at it. I have the same problem sometimes and think some hardware and software hates me, LOL.

I beat my head against the wall for many many hours trying to get FreeCAD to 'just work.
Sadly there are such a mountain of inconsistencies that I've stopped!
The engineers writing various tools seem to live in some incredibly constrained spaces.

Rest assured freecad could be a total kick *** CAD/CAM design system - - - IMO its got a long ways to go yet!

I'm having a constraint problem with Alibre tutorial. It is also 1 version behind, the tutorial. It shows how to do a constraint on a hole of 1" and to constraint it to the outer edge. When I do it, it shows where the hole should move to but, for the life of me I can't get the damn hole to move, as they say it should, nuts again. When I was learning computer programming I used to tell the other students to remember that the end user has no clue what 'they' the students are thinking when they write their code, use the KISS system. I took computer programming after doing computer hardware and software installs for 15 years. It sure opened my eyes on how F'ed up the software world really was and still is. Whomever gets it out the door first wins and if there is something wrong with it, then it's either a feature or we'll patch it later. Like Robin Williams once said "we want it now, like yesterday, not F'ing tomorrow and it better work better than the last one". LOL

ajoeiam & awake, I like that idea also. I for one would follow the thread.

Ray

 

[RM-MN]

I thought if I use Alibre I didn't need a slicer such as SuperSlicer. Mind you I don't know the total functionality of a slicer is. I guess I need to learn more yet, ah nuts.

I believe that Alibre will give you a nice 3-D picture of what you want to print. The slicer takes that 3-D picture and slices it into layers since that is what a 3-D printer prints. It also sets the temperature of the bed (if you have a heated bed) and the temperature of the extruder (so it melts the plastic), sets how much the plastic might be retracted as the print head travels without anything to print (prevents slobber). There are other functions too but that is an introduction.

 

[Sprocket]

Andy
I'd follow that thread. I have no CAD experience and would like to see how it works.
I still draw on napkins...
Doug

 

[Jasonb]

I'm having a constraint problem with Alibre tutorial. It is also 1 version behind, the tutorial. It shows how to do a constraint on a hole of 1" and to constraint it to the outer edge. When I do it, it shows where the hole should move to but, for the life of me I can't get the damn hole to move, as they say it should, nuts again.

Post a link to the tutorial and say at what stage into the video it is, I'll take a look. Normally I would roughly place a circle and then dimension the ctr from the two edges or other feature.

 

[Mike Henry]

Alibre doesn't have a built-in slicer, which is the program that tells your 3D printer how to lay down the "slices" that will render your model to a a solid form.

Export your 3D Alibre model to an STL file and then read that file into the slicer of your choice.

 

[74Sprint]

Post a link to the tutorial and say at what stage into the video it is, I'll take a look. Normally I would roughly place a circle and then dimension the ctr from the two edges or other feature.

It's in the "Alibre Atom3D Exercise Manual" dated 2018. Problem is on page 40 to 42.

I've tried several things but, if I can't get it to work, if I have to I'll just draw the circle/hole in the correct spot.
Thanks
Ray