Werowance attempts Myfordboys traction engine

[kjk]

Specified US Alternative Metric

2 BA 10 - 32 M5 x 0.8
4 BA 6 – 40,6-32 M4 x 0.7
5 BA 5 - 40
6 BA 4 – 48,4-40 M3 x 0.5
8 BA 2 – 56 M2.5 x 0.45
7/32 x 40 12 – 28 M5 x 0.8
1/4 x 32 1/4 – 28 M6 x 1.0
3/8 x 32 3/8 – 24 M10 x 1.5

 

[werowance]

i was asking myfordboy about maybe getting a pdf set of the plans so i could just print each page as i needed them thus not destroying the originals with oil, dykem and other gunk in the shop as i dont have a coppier at home. when he responded he also added that i should not post pictures of the plans here and my initial response was is all i posted was the cover sheet which doesnt give dimensions ( i was hasty and defensive on my response and i should not have been) but as i re-read my posts i did give a few dimensions as i was looking for stock. i dont believe i gave enough away for anyone to build by but i have edited as much as i can to remove any dimensions from this thread.

i dont think asking for substitutes for ba threads count as i didnt give any real measurements so i left that.

at any rate sorry for doing that and understand why he would not want me to do that.

now on to the rest of it.

some of my material has arrived. the tube i had to make some inserts for both ends so i could turn it on the lathe to cut to length (and to keep the ends square) i first turned a piece of scrap cast aluminum from a casting learning experience. the left over aluminum poured into a muffin tin. i turned that ingot into a plug and center drilled it and super glued it into one end of the tube. then on the chuck side i took a piece of roll bar tubing and turned it down until it would go into the tube and superglued that one in. i dont own pipe centers for the tail stock and didnt want to deform the tube on the chuck side is why i did it this way. used a parting tool on both sides and everything came out well. used heat to get rid of the glue.

forming the boiler ends just as myfordboy's and many other boiler builders public videos show by taking a form and beating the copper sheet over it to make what looks like a pipe cap but that fits on the inside of the tube. i dont have any pics but its slowly getting to shape. lot of heat and then beat then repeat going on with that.

 

[stanstocker]

Because with the dimensions given on his website nobody could ever figure out some of the rough sizes of material needed. After all, nobody has ever created a model from a limited number of photographs and drawings in the history of model engineering...

I understand not wanting detailed plan pics posted, but sizes of rough stock needed is hardly secret information. I was actually thinking about seeing how much it would cost to ship to the US, but now I'm not sure if I want anything to do with the guy. If anything, your thread is promoting his offerings. Was he a jerk or just not real supportive?

 

[Rockingdodge]

Umm just to knock this on its head, Myfordboy is not a jerk, just protective of his income. I've dealt with him on many occasions and he is a pleasant guy who will help if he can.

 

[stanstocker]

Okie Dokie then. It just seemed a bit extreme to expect someone to take down posts asking for sources of material in North America and giving rough sizes. That makes the thread less useful for those who might want to follow along. His youtube videos of the build certainly show more details than anything seen on this thread so far.

I certainly wouldn't expect him to want the plans posted one sheet at a time along with the machining steps. Not wanting PDF's out there makes sense, they have a tendency to become dispersed!

 

[werowance]

he was certainly not a jerk, I was the jerk. or at least I was short with my reply to him. I was just writing to say why I removed my dimensions and edited the posts. at any rate myfordboy was nice and said for me to ask any question to him I wanted no matter how "daft" it was.

anyhow, sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like he was a jerk or anything. I just felt bad about what I had done and that my reply to him was a little short.

thanks all.

 

[kjk]

I've dealt with Myfordboy on many occasions. I've had many castings from him, all of which were of excellent quality and machined very well. I've also asked numerous questions regarding his models and always received a prompt response. I can't imagine him refusing any reasonable request.

As for a pdf copy of plans - just photocopy whatever it is you are currently working on and when you have marked it up or soaked it in oil to the point it can't be used any longer - just make another one.

Stanstocker: By the way, numerous models have been built from a limited number of photographs. It is done all the time.

 

[werowance]

problem is i dont have a coppier at home, (working from home most of the time right now due to covid) but ill get by work and scan it in and make some coppies soon enough just for my own use. in the mean time ill just have to be carefull with them.

hope the thread doesnt get turned sideways on copying others work. i should have been more carefull and myfordboy was not in anyway wrong or mean to me. nuff said i hope.

update on the build:
Last night i finished heating and beating one of the end caps. still need to trim it up a bit in the lathe. i thought the copper was going to fold in on itself but in the end it decided to stretch and form the way it should have. probably because im using thicker copper than called for would be my guess. but still turned out acceptable. ill try to get a photo of it once i clean it up a bit.

 

[Bob Wild]

I built this traction engine. As others have said, Myfordboy is really helpful and answered all my queries and explained any details I was unsure of.
Bob

 

[donnie1932]

My first post so hope I get it right. I built this tractor a few years back and found it to be a great project. Myfordboy was great to work with and his casting
have been very good. One thing I had trouble finding was the ceramic material for the burner. I have some left over so if you need it you are welcome to it.
Pm me if interested and by the way enjoy following your builds.

 

[Jasonb]

No copier, take photo with camera or phone and print it.

 

[werowance]

Jason - got some coppies now, but take a photo with phone and print it. now that is a good idea. wish i had thought of that sooner.

Donnie, thats awesome, but only if you let me pay you for the ceramic material - ill pm you.

got the boiler end plates done. still waiting on some misc stock before i assemble the boiler and then some taps and dies that i ordered - decided i would just buy a BA tap and die set. its coming from India.

and last but not least. i normally use harris "stay silv" silver solder. the real stuff not plumbers type solder which they sell the plumbers type of solder as "stay Bright" but is there any other brands that might have slightly lower melting points than the "Stay SILV" from harris? and i guess i should say in the USA. shipping from over seas seams to take a long time.

 

[Sprocket]

Check the Harris website. I've been using Safety-Silv 56, which I think is their lowest melt point. The alloys with less silver actually melt at higher temps.
I don't know about other manufacturers, this was available locally and I've stuck with it.
Safety-Silv® 56 | The Harris Products Group
Doug

 

[Jasonb]

The Safety-Silv 56 is very close to the 55% solder that we use here as the main solder for boiler work so go with that. I would avoid the Phosphor containing Stay-Silv for boilers

I think the Harris Black flux is their version of our Tenacity flux which does not get exhausted so quickly making it good for the longer heating time a boiler or any large item may need

 

[werowance]

have not seen the safety silve 56 but i will take a look. black flux? was kinda curious about the flux as the stay silv flux looks very similar to borax or similar suspended in water or other wetting agent. and does tend to glass then burn up before the braze wire wants to wet and flow. ill have to see if i can get some to try

 

[werowance]

so im at a big old hold on the project due to not having material and tooling i need. its mostly on order (not all of it yet) guess im used to using scrap material and "close enough" on the alloys. that said im not risking it on the boiler so i am ordering the proper alloys and such for that. afterwords i can fall back to "close enough" and use whatever alloy scrap and cuttoffs i have. my tap and die kit from india still shows "tracking inforation received" but ive seen that before and dont get another update untill its actually in my mail box so hopefully i will have it soon.

i usually like to see a picture of something when i check updates on others builds so here is the most up to date one i have. looking forward to sharing better progress soon.

on the pic below. i have seen Brian R and some others speak about using citric acid for the "pickle" and as luck would have it, i decided to go by Rural King as i was doing other things such as copies and low and behold they had "Ms. Wages" citric acid for canning. so i bought a bottle. came in the same plastic bottle as you might get season salt of pepper corns or something. i mixed a little with some distilled water and dipped the ends in for about 7 or 10 mins per side as i did other things.

now its certainly not at the ready to braze state but look at how quickly it worked on the copper.
vinigar / salt that i normally use would take about an hour and that assuming i heated it to almost boiling before starting. the citric acid was about 50 to 60 deg F when i dipped it in. whatever the un heated garage temp was. at any rate it was done just to see if and how well it work. looks very promising as a "pickle"

 

[Brian Rupnow]

werowance--You were asking about my fan. If you go thru my post on the vertical I.C. that I am currently working on, there is lots of information on it about how I built the fan. I made the fan twice, The first time from some ratty old pitted 0.050" stock I had silver soldered to a separate hub. The process worked okay but it looked bad because of all the pitting. I made it a second time from some 1 3/4" diameter steel that I had, only I made the blades 1/16" thick and turned the hub as part of the blades. I printed out a paper pattern, glued it to the steel, and made the saw cuts from the o.d. in as far as the hub with my bandsaw. The blades were then twisted 30 degrees one at a time while holding the fan in my vice.----Brian

 

[werowance]

just a small update. not much but. 1. my taps and dies still do not show shipped from India, 2. my new silver braze harris safety silver 56 and "black flux" has arrived. i have been using safety 46 from harris so am anxious to try the 56 which as recomended in above posts as well as by harris it should melt at a slightly lower temp. (fingers crossed and can wait to test).

but while i wait on those taps and dies i wanted to share some info that i have learned as well as maybe an open discussion on alloys and such and what they are called from around the world. and some of these may have an impact on my build so this is why im posting as well as to possibly help others who may search on the diffrences

so....

1. silver steel - in USA i have learned its called drill rod (learned that one a long time ago). silver steal sounds so much cooler though. but in USA drill rod comes in W1 and O1 meaning oil hardening and water hardening.. i go with oil because im told O1 can for the most part withstand water or oil where water (W1) is "ok" with water but it also likes oil better. in other words both O and W like oil best ? i use used motor oil in 5 gal bucket to quench my drll rod in.
please jump in on this and make changes or suggestions like wiki page.

2. "BMS" had never heard that one but bright mild steel. again sounds so much cooler than the USA equivelant. which seems to be plain old cold rolled steel. doesnt bright mild steel sound better than cold rolled ? but dont take this post as for sure. just what im learning and like above feel free to recomend. i also understand there is a dark mild steel which again feel free to expand on but i understand that to be hot rolled steel - usuallly a little more slag on it but in my experience very little difference. both are not my favorite alloys of steel to work with but again they cut and are common.

3. phosporus bronze. - now this one i can see as not neceserlily being a direct one but evidently it is common in the UK and other countries (and maybe in the USA and im a newb and didnt know) to all it nothing but "phsophorus bronze" but that means no lead and the same thing in the USA is called c510. agrivating stuff to cut and work with . hard but gummy and gets hot quick. 360 brass in comparrison is awesome. but is slightly easier than mild steel to cut but not by much. does not like to drill very welll. in comparrison i have a ebay special (dirt cheap find)"log" of 3 inch by about 2 foot long log of "bronze" that looked like it had been a door stop for 75 years. that is gummy but cuts and drills well. suspect its leaded and is used for fly wheels so far only.

so folks if anyone is in the mood to do general discussion while i wait on those taps please chime in and add on to the "equivelents" whether its on the USA side or from your countries side. this isnt which is better but where i look at many engines built from all over the world but the termanolgy for the alloys dont always "translate" that well so to help others and me (which i already have most of my material) chime in and maybe some others can benefit. or maybe ill learn another new cool term just like silver steel.

 

[werowance]

believe it or not i am still waiting on my taps and dies. next week ebay will let me file a claim if i have not received them. in the mean time i have worked on a few things that i do not need them for yet. i bored the front casting, machined the bungs for the site glass and preasure relief valve and started on the cylinider. its been a slow start for me on this one.....

 

[werowance]

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