Welder

[bobden72]

Hi everyone just a quick recommendation please, I have had my own workshop for about forty years building engines both internal and external. There is a need now and again to weld two bits of metal together. I did at one point buy an electric stick welder and I was absolutely rubbish, ether burning holes or it looked like rat s**t. Eventually I gave it away and reverted back to mechanical means. So lately welding has reared its ugly head again and have seen advert for laser welders are they as easy to use as the advert shows, has anyone used one, or recommend a system.

 

[ShopShoe]

I also occasionally have "...a need now and again to weld two bits of metal together." So I seem to have have experience close to yours in this area.

I have been welding off and on for decades now, although not so much lately. I can't comment directly on the laser welders, so you can move to the next post at this point.

--

However, with all the welding I have done and all I have discussed, read, watched, and learned over the years I have to say that welding is not something that comes quickly or can be put aside and picked up for occasional use only once in a while. It is not like that tap and die set that sits in the tool box and comes out for making threads and then goes back to rest for months at a time. If you want to weld you need to invest in quality equipment and invest time in learning and practice to be able to do what you want to do when the need arises.

I say go learn welding as a skill if it intrigues you, but don't invest in a new gizmo when you can't spend time staying in practice.

I can do gas, stick, and wire welding and I can usually accomplish what I want when I want with those skills and that equipment with careful joint planning and thoughtful setup. I think TIG would be good to have, but the budget is needed for other things. I use the wire welder with MIG or flux-cored wire. I also use the gas torch for brazing with different filler metals. For experience with adopting TIG, read Brian Rupnow's posts on how he added that to his shop.

For a good source of welding information and YouTube videos I like this one:

https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com.

Jody knows what he is talking about with welding techniques and the reasons for them.

Other sources for information are adult-education classes and knowledgeable pros who are open to helping a learner.

If you buy the laser machine, please post your experiences so others can learn from you. It could be another gizmo could get added to my wish list

Good Luck,

--ShopShoe

 

[GreenTwin]

I have always used a Lincoln tombstone welder, AC, and can weld a wide range of metal thicknesses with it, including stainless beer keg sheetmetal.

One thing I noticed is that all welding rods are not created equal.

I purchased a very common 6013 rod at the local supply store, and could not make a clean weld with it at all.
I dried the rods in the oven, but still no luck.

I finally went down to the local welding store, and told them I needed a very good 6013 rod.
They sold me a box (a brand I had not heard of), and it was night and day between the previous brand.

So I can say from experience that the manufacturer of the 6013 rod that you use can be critical to getting good welds.

And there are some very special techniques required for welding sheet metal, to prevent burn-throughs.

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[kf2qd]

With stick welding the rod and the machine are both important. 6013 was called farm rod when I was growing up, the flux helps direct the arc and that also makes it tend to blow thru. If you can get a DC welder then that opens up some more options - For that I prefer 7018 and reverse polarity. Using 7018 you have to chip the flux around the end of the rod if you stop and want to restart before using up the whole rod. Clean the tip on the concrete and start the next weld.

Some years ago I got some rod - 80T-ACPLUS was how it was marked. It was for use with an AC welder and I used it rebuilding the frame for a bush-hog and it was so easy to do horizontal and vertical welds with that rod. Don't know if that is still available, but it made me look like I spent all my time welding because the welds looked so nice. And the bush-hog held together and had no problems with the welds failing.

The biggest problem I had learning to weld (50+ years ago) was using either to high or to low a current setting. Smaller rod works fine for thinner material, but it also concentrates the arc more so it puts more heat in a smaller area, and can burn through easier. The tendency is to then reduce the current, and then there is to little heat. I find that the skills and the knowledge do get a little rusty, but it all comes back fairly quickly once you start up again. Get some 1/4 plate - 6x6 pieces - and practice laying a bead, and the butt joints and the right angle joints. And learn how to compensate for shrinkage - as it cools the weld shrinks and it can really warp a part, the thinner the piece the more it will warp.

Not sure about those laser welders, I do know that anything with a laser will use way more power than other processes, the lasers only seem to be about 25% efficient on the best ones. And any of the processes can look so easy - when you are looking at the manufacturers sales videos. In real life there is always a learning curve, and the operator can make a huge difference.

 

[GreenTwin]

The smaller diameter rods tend to overheat and burn off the rod coating, and they also seem to burn through sheet metal more easily.

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[awake]

You didn't ask for a product review, but ... in the past year I purchased this unit: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B1TGZ8XN/ - no affiliation with the company other than a very satisfied customer. This is advertised as a "6-in-1" unit, meaning it can do SMAW (stick), TIG, and four variations of wire-fed welding: MIG (gas), flux-core, "spot-weld" (ability to set a timer to get a consistent, brief tack), and spool gun. It is dual-voltage, so able to run on 120V or 240V (adapter included). It comes with a regulator for the gas, as well as different sizes of drive rollers, a spare liner and nozzle, and a few contact tips; it also includes a basic SMAW electrode holder. It does not come with a TIG torch, nor with a spool gun; those are extra cost.

Note that there are any number of inexpensive, import, multi-process welders out there which combine at least the first four modes above - SMAW, TIG, MIG, and flux-core. When I was looking, there seemed to be two distinct levels of machines, both of which claim anywhere from 160 - 250 amp output (the higher-end claims are, of course, overly optimistic). Pretty much all of these have a "synergy" mode, where you set the output in terms of amperage, and it automatically calculates the wire feed and voltage. All (?) of these units allow some fine-tuning of the synergy settings for MIG/flux-core, but many (most?) do so so only with an arbitrary +/- setting - no way to tell exactly how much adjustment is being made, and whether the adjustment is to voltage or wire speed or both.

A couple of years ago I bought one of the lower-level units as my first MIG machine - Up to now (25 years or so) I've welded only using stick or TIG. That little unit worked okay for basic MIG and flux-core; it also welded stick fine within its capabilities; I did not try it with TIG, because for any of these machines, you really need a TIG torch with separate gas control - import versions of which are available inexpensively, but since I already have a pretty good TIG machine, not something I needed. Despite its limitations, it convinced me that I did want to incorporate MIG into my welding capabilities. Thus, when I took on a major project for a friend (major for me, at least - completely refurbishing and adding onto a 4 x 8 trailer), I took advantage of the excuse to step up to the "next level," resulting in buying the unit linked above. The primary reasons for stepping up included 1) higher output (still not sure it can really do 200 amps, but it certainly gets a lot closer than the first low-end unit I bought), and 2) ability to switch to full-manual mode, allowing more precise fine-tuning of the synergy settings (i.e., ability to adjust specific wire-feed and voltage settings).

Pros of this unit:

* welds very smoothly in MIG, flux-core, and SMAW, all on steel; haven't tried it on TIG or spool gun.
* dual voltage - I mostly use 240V, but have needed to run it on 120V a few times, and it worked well (only tried this on MIG thus far)
* Generally easy to use interface, with clear readouts
* has memory to store up to 10 sets of settings, allowing one to fine-tune for a specific type of project and save the settings for future re-use.
* Ability to switch from "synergy" mode to full manual mode, allowing full control and fine-tuning of settings
* "spot weld" mode is surprisingly useful
* fan runs only on-demand; shuts off when it is not needed

Cons of this unit:

* The wire-feed setting is shown in meters/second rather than in inches/minute - the latter is the way I nearly always see it expressed, but that may be due to being in the USA. The conversion is not difficult - the setting in meters/second * 40 ≈ the setting in inches/minute.
* the plastic strain-relief where the wire-feed gun plugs into the unit is a bit flimsy

As always, there are multiple brands that look more-or-less identical. When I bought this unit, I saw some others that looked like they had the same interface, but cost 10-20% less. Might those units work just as well? I have no idea. I went with this one on the basis of a few YouTube reviews of the brand. Again, no affiliation, but I have been very, very satisfied with it, and would not hesitate to buy it again.

 

[Ozwes007]

Just a little bit of advice, no welder is “easy to use”, it takes 4 years to do a welding apprenticeship and that is not something you learn from watching videos. Mig, stick, tig, laser all require a thing called muscle memory to use, that takes time. This involves the automatic ability to hold a welding Rod 1/8” from the surface while moving along at a précis angle in 3 different planes all the while feeding the consumable down at the correct rate, while watching the weld pool of molten metal to determine if you are getting the heat and speed right. And that is just for a simple down hand butt weld. Yes you can buy simple machines to learn on, then you need to know what rod to use for what you are welding, 6013(or similar ) for mild steel, 7016(16tc) for structural steel! If you have to preheat the material or post heat the material to stop it from internally cracking and failing while you use it. And what is the best type of welder? We have transformer, inverter, pulse etc etc. all react differently and require specific methods to setup. Then You have AC or DC types, and if DC what type of DC do you want DCEP or DCEN (DC Electrode positive or Negative). Btw this usually written on the packet! I’m not trying to put you off, just trying to point out that doing a night school or day course over several weeks (for a specific type of welding) would be a better investment then going out and investing in something that’s just going to be a disappointment.

 

[DavidR8]

For years I had a Millermatic 130. It was pretty good unit till one day it gave up the ghost.
I already owned a Primeweld Tig225 and was very please with it for TIG. I wanted another MIG unit so I bought thier MIG180.
I can tell you that the Primeweld MIG180 is far and away a nicer machine to use than the Miller. My welds immediately improved by significant amount.

 

[clockworkcheval]

Just a little bit of advice, no welder is “easy to use”, it takes 4 years to do a welding apprenticeship and that is not something you learn from watching videos. Mig, stick, tig, laser all require a thing called muscle memory to use, that takes time. This involves the automatic ability to hold a welding Rod 1/8” from the surface while moving along at a précis angle in 3 different planes all the while feeding the consumable down at the correct rate, while watching the weld pool of molten metal to determine if you are getting the heat and speed right. And that is just for a simple down hand butt weld. Yes you can buy simple machines to learn on, then you need to know what rod to use for what you are welding, 6013(or similar ) for mild steel, 7016(16tc) for structural steel! If you have to preheat the material or post heat the material to stop it from internally cracking and failing while you use it. And what is the best type of welder? We have transformer, inverter, pulse etc etc. all react differently and require specific methods to setup. Then You have AC or DC types, and if DC what type of DC do you want DCEP or DCEN (DC Electrode positive or Negative). Btw this usually written on the packet! I’m not trying to put you off, just trying to point out that doing a night school or day course over several weeks (for a specific type of welding) would be a better investment then going out and investing in something that’s just going to be a disappointment.

The way out is to get one of your grandchildren into welding.

 

[Richard Hed]

Just a little bit of advice, no welder is “easy to use”, it takes 4 years to do a welding apprenticeship and that is not something you learn from watching videos. Mig, stick, tig, laser all require a thing called muscle memory to use, that takes time. This involves the automatic ability to hold a welding Rod 1/8” from the surface while moving along at a précis angle in 3 different planes all the while feeding the consumable down at the correct rate, while watching the weld pool of molten metal to determine if you are getting the heat and speed right. And that is just for a simple down hand butt weld. Yes you can buy simple machines to learn on, then you need to know what rod to use for what you are welding, 6013(or similar ) for mild steel, 7016(16tc) for structural steel! If you have to preheat the material or post heat the material to stop it from internally cracking and failing while you use it. And what is the best type of welder? We have transformer, inverter, pulse etc etc. all react differently and require specific methods to setup. Then You have AC or DC types, and if DC what type of DC do you want DCEP or DCEN (DC Electrode positive or Negative). Btw this usually written on the packet! I’m not trying to put you off, just trying to point out that doing a night school or day course over several weeks (for a specific type of welding) would be a better investment then going out and investing in something that’s just going to be a disappointment.

In 1980 I bought a Lincoln 250 welder, the kind with a rotary adjusting handle. A VERY good machine. Soon after, I got a TIG addition for it. THe TIG part had no adjustments like the modern ones. I used it enough to barely learn how to use it. It was so clumsy I gave up on it. It was the "scratch" to start type. Now howeveer, I have a good, dedicated TIG machine and it works great--MUCH easier to use. Even so, I don't use it enough to really gset good at it. As a result, every time I use it, I have to "relearn" how to use it. I've gotten to the point that if I want to weld even ordinary steel, I will use the TIG just to get the practice using it.

 

[Lloyd-ss]

....................................... So lately welding has reared its ugly head again .........................

I think that sentence says a lot. You are not expecting anything good, and that's probably what will happen. Welding is an art that takes a lot of time to learn to do just an "acceptable" job. There are no short cuts "as seen on TV."

First suggestions (and I do not shy away from learning very often) are:
1. Stick with the mechanical fastening (a science, not an art).
2. Find a local shop that will do the welding for you after you fit it up and maybe tack it together. Or who will come to your house.

I used to be good at stick welding, but got out of practice, no equipment, etc, etc. About 6 years ago I bought the cheapie Harbor Freight Flux 125 wire feed welder. I knew that these machines would actually work for someone who had lots of experience with it. Over the next 6 years I did about I about 6 jobs with the welder and they were all ugly and only marginally acceptable after grinding and rewelding over and over. When I was half way thru the last job, after 6 years, I found a you tube instructional video by a guy using the exact welder that I had (only high and low heat, but variable wire speed). He showed numerous good and bad welds and showed what to do to get good welds with various different situations. Come to find out, I had been feeding the wire way too slow and moving the handpiece at the wrong speed at the wrong angle. I could hardly believe that I finally got some decent looking welds. But it was still just one technique doing miter welds on 1/8" mild steel. But sheet metal and other stuff....... they still look like .
And I WILL NOT trust my welds for anything where a weld failure will put anyone at risk. Nuts and bolts are my friends.

 

[Richard Hed]

For years I had a Millermatic 130. It was pretty good unit till one day it gave up the ghost.
I already owned a Primeweld Tig225 and was very please with it for TIG. I wanted another MIG unit so I bought thier MIG180.
I can tell you that the Primeweld MIG180 is far and away a nicer machine to use than the Miller. My welds immediately improved by significant amount.

I can believe it. And the price difference? I bought a Miller plasma cutter. It does OK for thin stuff but the price was 1500USD about 20 years ago. One can buy a cheapo now-a-daze that works just as well if not better for a huge reduction in price. Even so, I dont like supporting China

 

[TonyM]

''So lately welding has reared its ugly head again and have seen advert for laser welders are they as easy to use as the advert shows, has anyone used one, or recommend a system.''

I don't know what adverts you have been looking at, for Laser welding, but they are way out of the price range of most hobbyists. Anything less than a few thousand is most likely a scam.

 

[Tidza]

Don't be put off trying your hand at welding. I have been welding all my career and I'm retired now. Compared to stick welding the small home MIG welders are quite easy to use. I have seen apprentices that have produced quite acceptable welds within a few days with the right tuition. Try to find somewhere to get a bit of training and have a go. I found the results using cored wire not very good but solid wire and Argoshield gas are great for the home welder.

 

[awake]

With regard to learning to weld, I would disagree that one *must* take a class. I did take one "continuing education" class at the local community college, 25 or more years ago, and it helped tremendously with my then-just-beginning stick welding. We did get a chance for one to try TIG and gas welding, very briefly, but mostly it focused on stick welding.

Since then, I have learned to TIG and to MIG with reasonable proficiency, with the help of internet videos. I have also learned far more about stick welding from internet videos than I gained in that class. Of course, just watching the video (or just attending a class) will not a welder make; practice is key.

Two of the most important things I find, with any welding process, are 1) how to read the puddle, and 2) how to position your body / how to support your arm so that you can traverse the length of the weld with smooth, controlled motion.

Some of the things that one has to learn for any given process include how to choose the amperage (or wire speed and voltage), how and when to hold a tight arc, what angle to use, which polarity to use, which electrode / filler / wire to use, and on and on it goes. There are many good internet videos (I particularly like weldingtripsandtricks) that provide instruction on all of these.

MIG welding has the reputation of being the easiest to learn ... and in some ways that is true ... but that can come back to bite you. It is possible to get a reasonably good-looking MIG weld that has little strength. (It is harder to get a good-looking stick or TIG weld with little strength - easy to get little strength with either process, but generally it will look terrible.)

 

[GreenTwin]

If you can find a good welder to teach you how to do it, that works too.
I did take a general class in welding, and that was helpful to learn TIG, MIG, etc., but to learn to effectively stick weld was just someone showing me how to do it, and offering suggestions, and a lot of practice.

.

 

[Richard Hed]

Well. Hmmm. It is I, Dr. Pontiff here to pontificate. You all should come to the Philippines if you want to be a welder! Reason? Any Philippino who just LOOKS at someone else welding from a distance instantly knows how to weld. You could do the same! Or maybe it's genetics.

Al;so, even I (Dr. Pontiff) had to learn that that big blue flame created by the stick when learning stick welding causes excess heat and burns out the welding machine. Closer closer closer. Within a diametrer of the metal part of the stick, that is, if your stick is 1/8th inch, then that's how close your stisck shoyuld be to the puddle. Keep that flame short

 

[GreenTwin]

One can start with two strips of steel, perhaps 3/16" thick, 2" wide, 3" long.

Clamp them flat on a table, include the right gap between them, and practice welding them together.

You should be able to weld from one side only, and then bend the pieces backwards onto themselves without the weld failing.

At first I was holding to rod too far out, and getting a lot of splatter.
Then I would get the rod closer, and then get the rod stuck to the metal.
After a while, you get the feel for feeding in the rod as it melts off, keeping the arc short, and keeping the rod at the right angle so the arc penetrates the joint.

If the welder is turned up to too high an amperage, you will get melt-throughs.
If the amperage is too low, you will not get full penetration of both pieces, and the weld will crack when bent.

It did not take me too long to get the hang of stick welding horizontally.

Lots of videos on ytube too.

I would guess the biggest problem is using a poor quality welder, and the 2nd biggest problem is using a poor quality rod.

Lincoln has comparison charts that show what a variety of welds look like, such as too hot, too cold, etc.

Once you figure out horizontal welds, you can try an out-of-position weld, such as overhead.
Out of position welds require a little more effort to keep the metal from running.

Below are some examples.
I was told "your weld should look like a stack of dimes laying on their side".

One thing I have learned is that a strong weld that is a bit messy is much better than a good looking smooth weld, because the smooth welds are often superficial, and will not pass the bend test that I mentioned.

Not my photos. I will dig out a few of my welding photos in a minute.
.

 

[GreenTwin]

I needed a way to move some office equipment up the stairs to my office, and did not have a lot of time or money to spend on making a lift.

I went with a Harbor Freight 120VAC winch, fabbed a trolley, and used a piece of EMT conduit as the rail.
I wanted to use IMC, but EMT was all they had, and so I used that.

Much to my surprise, the EMT was plenty strong with very little deflection, even though I had to extend its length beyond 10 feet.

So a quick and dirty hoist that works like a charm.
Total cost under $200.00.

If I get a bit more time, I will make a more formal support at the top, but this is not meant to be a permanent part of the house, and thus the minimalistic build.

The gap between the welded pieces is probably about 1/3 the thickness of the metal, with enough amperage to the weld completely to the bottom of the gap.

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[GreenTwin]

This was a muller I made using trailer fenders from Northern Tool.

All stick welded using a AC tombstone Lincoln.

.