Warco ZX15 Mill/Drill spindle runout

[Steamchick]

Peculiarly, the Chinese basic machines come in lots of variants unique to international sales companies.... but basics, like bearing arrangements, are usually the same. (I hope!).
Both Warco and Chesters are reputed to use "ex-machine shop or toolmakers" to do service checks and any adjustment to settings before shipping to customers. They also require the machines to comply with National regulations - for electrical safety, etc. - so they have various factory mods as appropriate to the country of sale. These are not always in the manuals and diagrams... Even motors can be different from the diagrams, as markets and products change.
All good to keep us guessing!
K2

 

[wazrus]

Reading all the contributions with interest, as It's the first time, in over 40 years, that I've seen the 'ZX' brand mill/drills discussed. My ZX28 soldiers on and with all due consideration, the round column has not proved to be anything like the handicap as was suggested at the time. In fact, there have been times when I've swung the head around 180 degrees to access a job on the shop floor! Failures have included the plastic speed change levers and those silly plastic handwheel knobs, all of which self-destructed and I have replaced the thrust bearings in the cross-slide and also replaced the oil seals in the head. Of course, the head had to be completely stripped to access the seals and as that was more than ten years ago, I couldn't give a blow-by-blow description of the process. The head innards wallow around in an oil bath and there was a window, which leaked, to look at the oil level. I've replaced the window with a dipstick arrangement. I have the impression that the ZX15 uses sealed/greased bearings? Perhaps the ZX28 is a more advanced model!! Ho ho ho ho. The diagrams I have, all annotated in Chinese, show four bearings supporting the spindle and I have dimensions of the bearings, if anybody wants that detail. Good value for the price.

 

[Steamchick]

Mine has belt change pulleys - all manual - so no gearbox issues. I think it dates from 1980s or 90s, as I bought it 3rd hand from a guy who had used it for 5 years or more.. After buying it "a bit worn and obsolete"... but works fine for my jobs, though needs some TDC now. With heavy cuts it can rotate on the round pillar (poor clamps) - I have changed the bolts to high tensile, but to no avail.
K2

 

[skyline1]

I have the impression that the ZX15 uses sealed/greased bearings

Yes it has 5 bearings in the spindle assembly the top 2, which take the load from the drive pulley are standard 6007 open bearings which appear to have no means of greasing them other than taking the pulley and top bearing mounting off. I have found out that this is a fairly simple operation and probably what was originally intended. The manual makes no mention of lubricating them though. I may well change them for 2RS ones at a later date possibly deep groove ones.

The bottom 3 are obviously preloaded, adjustable bearings of some kind and there is an oil post on the quill but exactly what they are I don't know yet as I haven't had chance to try getting the quill out and may be busy this week (domestic jobs do tend to get in the way of things)

One minor concern I have is, if the quill drive pinion needs to come out this means disconnecting the return spring which is pretty strong. Getting it out will probably not be too difficult, but springs being springs, getting it back in could be a different matter altogether. That part may result in some rather "fruity" language or even things getting thrown about.

Best Regards Mark

 

[wazrus]

It all sounds as though your 'ZX' mill is very different from mine. It came with a very ,very comprehensive 'manual', but chinese isn't a strong suit and it's more than double-Dutch. But there are some diagrammatic parts and assembly drawings. It's all printed on dyeline plan-printing paper which even still has that ammoniac smell and it hasn't all faded away! Yet. Bound in a nice plastic binder, too.

 

[Steamchick]

I think the Chinese have learned about "sales presentation" from the Japanese. (re: The nice plastic binder containing rubbish...). While on business in Japan (a few decades ago) I had many gifts. All beautifully wrapped... but the contents (e.g. a comb and leather case) were the cheapest rubbish you would not put in cheap Christmas crackers! The comb had fewer teeth after I had combed my hair than I expected, as about 1/3rd simply fell off! The leather case became unstitched the second time I went to get the comb out. So both comb and case went in the bin! The packaging was beautiful though. I felt privileged to receive such a beautiful gift from the MD - yet insulted the day after, when I realised what "show" they were presenting. My Japanese colleagues couldn't understand that... I quickly realised why you do not open presents while you are with your hosts! Afterwards, all the other "gifts" were in the same line. So I did the British thing and courteously respected how much they really valued my visit.
K2

 

[wazrus]

My manual's binder isn't really all that flash, but very adequate. I seem to recall, without looking, that almost every page is 'signed off' as, presumably, being 'up to spec'. At our Sydney 'engineering exhibition' (ho ho ho ho), a young lady on the 'china' stand there was a bit amused that I wasn't terribly interested in updating my ZX28 to a ZX30. Really I can't fault the machine in the value-for-dollars stakes and as I've said, it keeps on keeping on and I've had no gearbox issues at all, other than the seals. At the outset, though, I did a 'deal' with the seller which, for a round $1000, included a 1-1/2HP motor, which replaced the original 3-phase, reversing/tapping unit. I had to weld up and machine a bell housing to adapt the motor, but the lashup has been on the unit since new. Then, I suppose $1000 in 1980-odd wasn't exactly cheap! While, as you say, presentation seems to be a 'failing', in 2022, surely we're a little more sage and can look through the claptrap, certainly not expecting a free lunch! Packaging give me the tom-tits, too.

 

[Richard Hed]

I think the Chinese have learned about "sales presentation" from the Japanese. (re: The nice plastic binder containing rubbish...). While on business in Japan (a few decades ago) I had many gifts. All beautifully wrapped... but the contents (e.g. a comb and leather case) were the cheapest rubbish you would not put in cheap Christmas crackers! The comb had fewer teeth after I had combed my hair than I expected, as about 1/3rd simply fell off! The leather case became unstitched the second time I went to get the comb out. So both comb and case went in the bin! The packaging was beautiful though. I felt privileged to receive such a beautiful gift from the MD - yet insulted the day after, when I realised what "show" they were presenting. My Japanese colleagues couldn't understand that... I quickly realised why you do not open presents while you are with your hosts! Afterwards, all the other "gifts" were in the same line. So I did the British thing and courteously respected how much they really valued my visit.
K2

I heard also that the Japanese will not open the package infront for anyone. they won't open the package at all. They will take it home and give it away to someone else without bothering to open it. LOL

 

[Steamchick]

Hi Wazrux, I wonder how the torque compared between the 3-phase and single phase motors? Of course, you need to match your mains supply, by nowadays, 3-phase motors with variable speed drives are favoured over single phase. And I would appreciate a tapping unit on my "30"! - but it has a FWD/FEV switch. And HUGE torque with the belt gearing for low speeds. Can't get that with VFD. I would not want the belts and bearings to spend too long at more than the top speed (2150rpm) mine has. (too noisy).
K2

 

[Steamchick]

Hi Richard, They didn't teach me that trick!
K2

 

[ChazzC]

I heard also that the Japanese will not open the package infront for anyone. they won't open the package at all. They will take it home and give it away to someone else without bothering to open it. LOL

Things must have changed since I traveled to Tokyo in the early 1980's: at that time gift giving at first and last matings were an essential part of doing business and one was expected to open and admire the gift upon presentation. I was prepared for thes and had well-wrapped bottles of Johnny Walker (a favorite in Japan) and other, lesser delicacies for lower level hosts. My associate and I were presented with a beautiful coffee table books of Japan at the first meeting and high-end Seiko watches for our wives on departure (they made a point of displaying the watches, having us fill out the warranty cards in our wives' names and then an office worker wrapped the gifts beautifully; sadly, only my wife's gift survived intact going through customs at JFK: my associate had to unwrap his, but I just told the agent that I had the same thing).

I do admit that I was representing a large multi-national company who had purchased a major piece of equipment which we were examining prior to shipment (and was planning on purchasing several more). However, I have heard of similar experiences to mine during the same time frame from others who did not have the same connections.

 

[Richard Hed]

Things must have changed since I traveled to Tokyo in the early 1980's: at that time gift giving at first and last matings were an essential part of doing business and one was expected to open and admire the gift upon presentation. I was prepared for thes and had well-wrapped bottles of Johnny Walker (a favorite in Japan) and other, lesser delicacies for lower level hosts. My associate and I were presented with a beautiful coffee table books of Japan at the first meeting and high-end Seiko watches for our wives on departure (they made a point of displaying the watches, having us fill out the warranty cards in our wives' names and then an office worker wrapped the gifts beautifully; sadly, only my wife's gift survived intact going through customs at JFK: my associate had to unwrap his, but I just told the agent that I had the same thing).

I do admit that I was representing a large multi-national company who had purchased a major piece of equipment which we were examining prior to shipment (and was planning on purchasing several more). However, I have heard of similar experiences to mine during the same time frame from others who did not have the same connections.

Easy to understand. I have never been in either position to recieve cheezy or something worthwhile doing Japanese business. I'm sure in major business deals worth millinions of $$, the seller is not going to give a client a plastic mickeymouse. That would be insulting. Even a slight insult like that coul;d be a deal breaker. I myself, have refused at least one deal worth about 40,000$ because of a percieved insult.

 

[wazrus]

G'day Steamchick and others: the thing works, works well and keeps on working and at the time I didn't have any 3-phase available. I do now, though, but I've never used it. There seems to be oodles of torque from the single -phase but that, it seems to me, has a bit to do with the motor manufacture, as I have another, supposedly 1-1/2HP on a 6"x24" lathe and I've stalled that regularly. It replaced a much older (and better?) unit, on which the insulation had apparently been breaking down and which I had 'refurbished', to find that it continued to trip the breakers. At the time, I did enquire about replacing the breaker with one a little more 'tolerant', shall we say, but at $180 for the breaker, vs. $125 for a replacement motor..... Ah well, chinese cheapies.
I was first in Japan in 1967 and was treated to a level of courtesy I found bordering on obsequious and almost to the point of being funny, if it wasn't so well-intended. I was a passenger on a smallish cargo ship and I had bought a (small) motor-bike, which the 'shop' had duly delivered to the dockside and the shop staff were halfway up the (narrow) gangplank, struggling with the bike, when I re-appeared and was able to have the ships' people swing out a derrick and hoist the thing aboard. What a commotion! Now that level of co-operation I couldn't fault.

 

[wazrus]

You did mention about the tapping capability and that, for me, has become a bit of a non-issue, as I have a couple of those reversing/tapping heads, one of which will drive a 3/4" Whit tap in steel without too much trouble, the tapping unit being straight into the 3MT spindle, which has a drawbar. Spindle speed into low, of course (about 30 rpm: I haven't looked) and crunch, crunch, crunch, away we go. I had occasion for a repetition batch of 5/8" Whit in steel, too. No problems. The tapping head is quite a large lump of hardware, its gearbox body is about 150mm diameter and its spindle is set up for square-shank taps. It has a mounting for a 20mm diameter torque arm and this gets a bit of use, too. I'm sure these tapping heads are common as flies.

 

[Joe]

[/QUOTE]

Things must have changed since I traveled to Tokyo in the early 1980's: at that time gift giving at first and last "matings"
were an essential part of doing business and one was expected to open and admire the gift upon presentation.

Isn't it appalling the lengths some will go to in the name of capitalism ?

 

[Steamchick]

Hi Joe, It is simply a "Western corruption of Eastern traditions".
I understand the philosophy of business life to be: "respect and be courteous to the clients you are meeting, and assume they will be honest in all they say - but retain 5% caution - and when they prove to be not telling all the truth, temper your respect accordingly. But remain courteous, even if you have to "blow them away" later!
K2

 

[Steamchick]

The real issue that rubbed me the wrong way, was the fact that it was the MD that presented me with gifts that were simply "tat".
He probably didn't know, and certainly none of his people would tell him! The communication up and down in Japanese companies is near distructive at times. The truth is so distorted, it is nearly corrupt.
I read a Japanese car warranty issue (via Reuters) where the president of a major car maker had to go to meet the the head of the ministry of transport to present the recall campaign for car batteries... (millions of cars affected over a number of years). But this happened just over 3 years after the correction had been introduced. But Japan has such stringent MOT Checks at 3 years old that well over 90% of cars are scrapped or shipped abroad at 3 years old, so only a few thousand cars actually still existed for the recall!
Read what you like into that one...
K2

 

[Joe]

Isn't it appalling the lengths some will go to in the name of capitalism ?
[/QUOTE]

Sorry guys, I guess I should have done a cut and paste quotation like this.

Quote
"first and last matings"
End quote.

The worst person to proof read is the original author.

Cheers

 

[awake]

Isn't it appalling the lengths some will go to in the name of capitalism ?

Sorry guys, I guess I should have done a cut and paste quotation like this.

Quote
"first and last matings"
End quote.

The worst person to proof read is the original author.

Cheers
[/QUOTE]

That does make more sense now! And I too thought the typo was amusing.

 

[Steamchick]

Not sure how this relates to spindle run-out... but amusing so far....
K2