Vevor rotary table troubles

[Wonk]

I purchased a 100mm rotary table from Vevor as I expected it to be able to do what I would need on the occasional times I would need it. Upon receiving the table I did the usual cleaning of all the oily gunk covering everything. The first thing I noticed on it was that the machined surface of the base that is used when machining something vertically (table horizontal) looked to be surface ground but the other side (for when the table is vertical) looked rather rough, not surface ground. The next problem was the indexing pin did not fit in the indexing arm (slot in arm not machined enough for it to fit). Third problem was the center ring of the table where the morse taper hole is sits proud of the rest of the table making anything clamped to the table becoming a rocking chair. It also came with alignment blocks for aligning to the bed of your mill that are way too big to fit the slots in the bottom of the rotary table.

I started a "After Sale Service /Not As Described" ticket with Vevor, asking for a return authorization and a new usable rotary table sent to me. I have spent the last 16 days exchanging pictures and explanations of the problem with them. They for some unknown reason do not want to exchange this table. Their solution is for me to have the table repaired locally and they would refund me $55 for my trouble. I refused this solution and lodged a complaint with PayPal. I then received an offer of $110 and I keep the table. So much for their "30 Day no hassle return" policy.

I do not understand why they would not just refund my money or send me a new unit.

 

[pete]

I doubt there confident enough that any of the same tables they have in stock wouldn't all have the exact same issues the one you already have does. Vervor doesn't manufacture anything, there a supplier of whatever they stock. Best guess and with the volume they sell, they would have some buying power with the actual tool manufacturers. So I suppose they offer X amount for whatever type of tool they want to stock and how many cargo containers of those tools they want, and those tool manufacturers either agree to produce whatever they want at that price or they don't bid on that particular contract. It's the lowest possible price offered, so these are just some of the issues that can cause.

Yes I fully understand this is an expensive hobby so saving money where you can is something most of us try to do. But I've found that trying to buy any type of tooling at the lowest possible price will generally end up with a result just like you have now. I now try to buy something with a known brand and I guess towards the more mid priced level. Vertex as an example for a rotary table. Yes there much more in price, but no issues either.

I suppose that un-ground base could be at least fly cut on your mill to true it up. But it would take a long time to be sure your mill is trammed in about as perfect as you can manage, and that the set up is done well enough to actually get as close as possible 90 degree surface on your table. Maybe not as good as that proper surface grinding, but you could treat it as an accuracy challenge for just how good you can get it. You could also end mill the end of the R/T's spindle that's proud of the table just slightly below your table surface. And there's two choices to make that indexing pin fit, either machine the O.D. down or enlarge that slot. Should you have to do any of this? No of course not, but it either needs to be returned or you fix the issues. As far as those keys not fitting, that's not unusual at all since the manufacturer doesn't know if it's going to be used on a mini mill or a 500 ton bed mill. My Vertex rotary table for example has slots and keys well undersized for use on my Bridgeport sized mill. To use them as intended although I don't, I'd just have to machine stepped keys that fit both the slots in the bottom of the table and the tee slots in my mill table.

 

[Wonk]

Yep, I definitely get the "you get what you pay for" and "buy once, cry once". My need for a rotary table is so limited I felt that the money I spent on one would be a cost lost situation anyway. Therefor I looked at Chinese tooling that I expected to have to do some deburring and possible tuning to make it work for what I need. I am not trying to get something for free or a beautifully machined work of art for $175 but I would at least like it to be usable.

I thought about fixing the problems myself. For the ring in the center I could chuck the whole table part in the lathe and turn it down below flush. The arm would not be much of a challenge and the blocks would just be a pretty simple mill project. But I am pretty sure the base casting itself with all the blocking/clamps/etc required will not fit in my mill with enough room to get a fly cutter above it. I am waiting for one more reply from Vevor before I even think about attempting anything on it.

 

[ChazzC]

Have to agree that while some fiddling & cleaning can be expected, the item should not require machining to be able to be used. Vevor needs to take it back.

 

[pete]

Afaik most (maybe all?) R/T's use a heavy press fit spindle into the table. At that point the spindle itself is probably used to rough machine the table face and likely the spindle taper at the same time. The same would probably be done during the precision grinding for that taper and the tables working face to get it all square and concentric. At least that's how I'd do it. If it were me, I think I'd also indicate that table top while it's rotated. I'd almost bet your going to start to find a few more issues than you have already. I'd also check the table height on all four quadrants since that table surface may not even be square to the surface ground base casting. If not? Your quickly getting into far more work and effort than it's worth.

You'd need a large angle plate indicated in almost perfectly true to the mill spindle and few at a price we can afford would be anywhere close enough. It could still be painstakingly shimmed to get it true and then bolt the table base to it for the fly cutting. If your using what most today do for tooling holding on a mill and ER collets. A separate Morse or R8 taper collet might get you the bit extra room you need if that's what your mill has for it's spindle taper.

Somehow that spindle was machined out of spec, but they went ahead and used it anyway since done properly, the spindle end should be slightly below the tables working face. And the casting looks to have been de-burred with a fast swipe using an angle grinder. As far as those machining marks, it's a bit tough to say for sure, but Blanchard grinding leaves very similar tool marks as large face mills do. I'd say Blanchard grinding would be fairly normal to remove larger amounts of material before the final surface grinding. It's not impossible yours just got through there obvious zero quality control and inspection. However with the rest of the issues you found, that might not be something there's anything left in the price for even that. Fit for purpose and accurately described it most definitely isn't.

 

[John Sims]

If table top is out of parallel to base you could scrape base and check with for four points on top of table on a know good surface plate. Then you could mill vertical surface and scrape square. Using a magnetic cylinder square on vertical scraped surface set base on surface plate and check with indicator. It can be a time consuming process if not familiar with scraping technique. But it also is extremely accurate process if done correctly. Would definitely would read up on scraping before giving it a go.

 

[Wonk]

I don't think it would be worth my time or money to try to scrape this table especially since I would have to spend at least $250+ for a cylinder square plus the tools to try my hand at scraping. If I can get Vevor to refund my money I will probably try to save up some money to pay for a Vertex table although the price of a Vertex is more than I want to spend on this piece of tooling I will get probably little use from.

 

[krypto]

The trouble is that $175 doesn't have a whole lot of value anymore and as you noticed you can easily spend more money on gear to fix a tool than to buy a decent one outright. At some point you need to pick you battles as well as no one has infinite shop time, especially when you start looking at your age entry in the actuary tables.

The Vertex line is still Asian made, but Taiwan instead of mainland China. There are other brands like Yuasa that are much more expensive. It's relatively easy to find nice, used industrial rotary table but they are usually in the larger ball-buster sizes and not in the six or eight inch size that are easy to handle.

You can get plates & sector for most rotary tables and use them for dividing head work to get more use out of the tool. Below I'm working at cutting a gear with a Vertex 8" table. Be aware that different size tables have different plates and sometimes the smaller tables don't support as many divisions. You can also go electronic and avoid the plates all together.

 

[Wonk]

Problem is my mill is a Sieg X2D Mini Mill. Not hardly enough room for even a 6" table. That is why I went with a 4" and they are hard to find used,

 

[krypto]

Vertex does make a 4" rotary and Sherline does as well. I have no experience with these little ones.

 

[ChazzC]

Vertex does make a 4" rotary and Sherline does as well. I have no experience with these little ones.

I have a Sherline and the quality is excellent ($340):

Little Machine Shop also has one that looks to be good quality on sale for $270:

 

[Richard Hed]

Problem is my mill is a Sieg X2D Mini Mill. Not hardly enough room for even a 6" table. That is why I went with a 4" and they are hard to find used,

Hate to mention is, but it is always a possible side project to build one yourself.

 

[pete]

You might be surprised Wonk, tooling seems to generate projects that use it. While I have an actual dividing head now, when I bought my Vertex R/T I also bought the dividing attachment that was built for it . Yes you can use the tables own degree markings and vernier scale to do accurate divisions, but for higher numbers of divisions or if at some point you start needing that function a lot more, those division plates will reduce the positioning errors that are fairly easy to make.

I know of a small dividing head that uses castings and available here. https://www.hemingwaykits.com/category-49 But a pretty involved and extensive project that requires a fairly well equipped shop. They also do a small non worm gear driven R/T, https://www.hemingwaykits.com/HK1180 and one with a worm and wheel, https://www.hemingwaykits.com/HK1190.

Many years ago Pilip Duclos wrote up a 40-1 dividing head article for the home shop machinist magazine that uses a small off the shelf worm and worm wheel. I assume copies of that could be obtained through that same magazine, or it's also in this book they sell. https://secure.villagepress.com/store/items/detail/page/6/item/819 But all of these seem to be either for horizontal or vertical use, but not both without something like a heavy and accurate angle plate to bolt some of these heads to.

As long as it's something they already stock, anything that's not for Vertex products seem a lot tougher to get from North American tool suppliers. Although there may be a NA dealer that does have the 4" tables I don't know of. For size, cost and availability, that Sherline manual R/T could be your best choice.

 

[L98fiero]

Yep, I definitely get the "you get what you pay for" and "buy once, cry once". My need for a rotary table is so limited I felt that the money I spent on one would be a cost lost situation anyway. Therefor I looked at Chinese tooling that I expected to have to do some deburring and possible tuning to make it work for what I need. I am not trying to get something for free or a beautifully machined work of art for $175 but I would at least like it to be usable.

I thought about fixing the problems myself. For the ring in the center I could chuck the whole table part in the lathe and turn it down below flush. The arm would not be much of a challenge and the blocks would just be a pretty simple mill project. But I am pretty sure the base casting itself with all the blocking/clamps/etc required will not fit in my mill with enough room to get a fly cutter above it. I am waiting for one more reply from Vevor before I even think about attempting anything on it.

Think about it, even if you had the tools, what kind of rotary table could/would you build for $125(remember, there is a sales markup, even for Vevor), maybe it was worse than the average one like that, but you threw the dice.

 

[timo_gross]

Vertex does make a 4" rotary and Sherline does as well. I have no experience with these little ones.

I bought a 4" Vertex few month ago.
Their sales was very friendly and they sold me what I wanted even though I am not a "volume buyer".

I did not inspect it, I just trust it as is.

I replaced the handwheel with a stepper motor and made an Aluminium plate that bolts on top of the T-slots.
The plate with a pattern of M6 threaded holes, makes it easier to bolt small items on the table. (Sooner or later I will drill or mill into my table, so the plate protects the rotary table and my ego)


The plate will make your "ring issue disappear". (takes 1" of heigt, but is fine for me so far)

For the milled surface I would not be too worried about it as long as it is perpendicular to the other flat. It probably will have enough bearing surface for light milling. And I assume with the small thing no one does heavy cuts.

Greetings Timo

p.s. Vevor should have just taken the thing back, if you did not like it as is. Even though I think you can still use it these are valid points.

 

[byawor]

I once bought a mini lathe from Vevor on Amazon. I was not expecting much just for polishing. When it arrived I did not even unpack it, ways looked like had been done with an angle grinder. Got a return authority and shipped it back took six weeks and many calls to get a refund. Never again.
Bob

 

[tim9lives]

Since they are willing to work with you by giving you a discount, I would try a flycutter on your mill. Even though you might have to reposition it to get full coverage, I think one should be able to get it "close enough." after flycutting, sandpaper on a surface plate ( or thick glass plate) should clean it up enough. Let's face it. You even say it's not something you need to use daily.
You should be able to make that a usable tool for your needs in my opinion.
On a side note, Chinese retailers get a substantial discount for mailing packages. But it's a one way deal for them. They would be paying much higher shipping charges if they had to pay your shipping and handling charges related to guaranteeing their products. It is what it is with the Chinese Business Model. It is exactly why I refuse to buy a welder online. I'll pay the extra money and go to Northern Tool or Harbor Freight.

 

[Wonk]

Well the good news after lodging a complaint with PayPal is they are issuing a full refund and I can keep the table. I will unbox it again and see if an attempt can be made to fix it. If not I may be able to use the indexing plates on another table I may buy.

If anyone knows of any discount codes I can use on a better table please let me know.

 

[ChazzC]

Most items shipped from China are combined at origin and sent to a re-shipper in the US (Orange Connex Logistics [OCL] is a joint venture with eBay; ALI uses a similar setup). They can ship to the US (and elsewhere) relatively cheaply, but sending items back is done on an individual basis so not worthwhile. Items coming from India are via DHL or FedEx, most likely via a similar setup.

My most recent experience with something that wasn't quite right was late last year: a self-centering Drill Press Vise was missing the handle; I was offered a replacement or $25 (the vise cost $112 delivered, so guess what I chose?)

I cleaned & tuned the vise, modified the screw shaft for a different handle and added some other improvements, documented here: https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/41306-what-did-you-do-today?p=2066992#post2066992

and here: https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/41306-what-did-you-do-today?p=2066998#post2066998


[My apologies for the multiple edits: I was not able to get the links to my post on H-M to work on this forum; I had too many photos for a single post on HSM, thus the two links]

 

[pete]

That's great you got a refund, but with all the re-work it's going to take, that free table may still turn out to be pretty expensive in time.

But just in case it's not something you already know Wonk, if you try to use those division plates on another table, just be sure it also has the same worm and worm wheel ratio that your Vevor table has. 40-1 plates as an example could be used on something like a 90-1 table. But your actual division tables for whatever ratio that next R/T has would be useless unless you do the math. Even then, some divisions may not be possible.

Given the extremely poor build quality of that table I'm not sure I'd trust the hole count or even accuracy of there placement in those plates unless I double checked them first. Inaccuracy's in the actual hole placement are still divided by the worm - worm wheel ratio, so even an inaccurately done plate could be used to used to machine second generation plates that would be much more accurate. It just depends on what your using the R/T for and the actual level of accuracy you might need of course.