Today I went to buy a file---and---man---

[Brian Rupnow]

I have been struggling along for 14 or 15 years now, using files that I inherited from my father. I actually bought two cheap nasty files that were made in India or China at one point. Today I decided to buy a selection of new files. I never ever knew there were so damned many different kinds of files. There are Bastard files, which seem to be separated into Mill Bastards and Ordinary Bastards. There are files exclusively for use on lathes, and they should be called Son of a Bitch files, but they're not. There are coarse files, medium files, and fine files. There are files which have no teeth on the edges, which I have seen referred to as "Safety files". I have phoned four different places to compare prices, and they seem to cost about the same at each place. I see that Nicholson files seem to be highly touted. I see that files come in either a diamond pattern or with all the grooves slanting in one direction only. (It appears that files for use on lathes have a longer slope to the grooves than files that are not used on lathes). Really, I just want ordinary, flat, general purpose files for use on mild steel, but I see that they sell files to be used exclusively on aluminum. I may have to go back to college and take a 4 year course in file types, just so I can go down street and buy a couple of files for my machine shop.---Brian

 

[scottyp]

My junior high shop teacher would chew us out if he thought we were filing on aluminum. Said with heavy German accent “Hey you boys, don’t be filin’ on that luminum. You better get a file kart.”

 

[Zeb]

Ha. Yes, I keep my files on the second drawer near the top with a file card handy. I try to treat my newer ones like knives too, since they do have cutting edges.
Nichols are great for removing a lot of material. They tend to have a bow in them unfortunately, but they're on the low end in price. A grobet set would be nice. The nicer ones do make a difference.
I've been collecting stones too for when I need to go around corners.

 

[L98fiero]

Ha. Yes, I keep my files on the second drawer near the top with a file card handy. I try to treat my newer ones like knives too, since they do have cutting edges.
Nichols are great for removing a lot of material. They tend to have a bow in them unfortunately, but they're on the low end in price. A grobet set would be nice. The nicer ones do make a difference.
I've been collecting stones too for when I need to go around corners.

I have a nice set of Nicholson needle files, they've been used a few times but the ones I use regularly are a Chinese set. Both sets are about 20 years old but the Chinese set is sharper and just generally cuts better and more smoothly. I wasn't terribly impressed but then a Kennedy toolbox had poor quality handles and bad fitting drawers, a TECO milling machine strap clamp set had bolts with very sloppy threads, the cheap Chinese set was better. But maybe I'm just expecting too much.

 

[terryd]

I have been struggling along for 14 or 15 years now, using files that I inherited from my father. I actually bought two cheap nasty files that were made in India or China at one point. Today I decided to buy a selection of new files. I never ever knew there were so damned many different kinds of files. There are Bastard files, which seem to be separated into Mill Bastards and Ordinary Bastards. There are files exclusively for use on lathes, and they should be called Son of a ***** files, but they're not. There are coarse files, medium files, and fine files. There are files which have no teeth on the edges, which I have seen referred to as "Safety files". I have phoned four different places to compare prices, and they seem to cost about the same at each place. I see that Nicholson files seem to be highly touted. I see that files come in either a diamond pattern or with all the grooves slanting in one direction only. (It appears that files for use on lathes have a longer slope to the grooves than files that are not used on lathes). Really, I just want ordinary, flat, general purpose files for use on mild steel, but I see that they sell files to be used exclusively on aluminum. I may have to go back to college and take a 4 year course in file types, just so I can go down street and buy a couple of files for my machine shop.---Brian

Hi Brian,
Most grades (Bastard, coarse, medium, fine and extra fine) are also available in warding (tend to be fine and medium), flat, hand and half round types as well as square, triangular and round. And then there are rifflers and needle of course. But then there are also general purpose diamond files. and don't forget to get a range of sizes from 4" up to 12" long. And so on infinitum. You could of course go for the ultimate - hand cut files which I am told are the best and the best of the best are made by a family in Fance (just lost their names though).

Only a 4 year course?

To be serious though, there is an interesting video in Clickspring's YouTube channel on making your own files, he experimented for historical reasons as he is building a replica of the ancient Greek mechanical computer, the 'Antikithera Machine'. It is Here

Best regards
TerryD

 

[petertha]

The Nicholson files of our dads generation are not the same offerings with the same name of local hardware / big box store. Just Google this topic, its a common complaint. I have read outsourced to Mexico &/or Brazil, initially not as good but not horrible. But lately getting worse or farmed out yet again. Really doesn't matter to me where things are made as long as the quality is there for the price. And I am of the opinion they are lacking. Maybe your supplier is different than mine. The ones I bought from KBC were not sharp or consistent from the get go & degraded duller with light duty compared to the real ones I've had since the 70's & attempting to replace. Maybe if I had a forge I could beat them into a something useful.

Unfortunately good files cost money. But they are a pleasure to use & likely will outlive me. Try searching some of the jewelry supply places. I think Gesswein is a Vallorbe distributer, but there are other good names. And apparently that is a changing landscape as well. Some of the traditional European names have been outsourcing, but at least doing a better job of QC. USA has more options & selection but the FX is not in our favor. Try one & see how you like it, go from there. Goodluck.
https://www.gessweincanada.com/category-s/10437.htm

 

[Richard Hed]

I have been struggling along for 14 or 15 years now, using files that I inherited from my father. I actually bought two cheap nasty files that were made in India or China at one point. Today I decided to buy a selection of new files. I never ever knew there were so damned many different kinds of files. There are Bastard files, which seem to be separated into Mill Bastards and Ordinary Bastards. There are files exclusively for use on lathes, and they should be called Son of a ***** files, but they're not. There are coarse files, medium files, and fine files. There are files which have no teeth on the edges, which I have seen referred to as "Safety files". I have phoned four different places to compare prices, and they seem to cost about the same at each place. I see that Nicholson files seem to be highly touted. I see that files come in either a diamond pattern or with all the grooves slanting in one direction only. (It appears that files for use on lathes have a longer slope to the grooves than files that are not used on lathes). Really, I just want ordinary, flat, general purpose files for use on mild steel, but I see that they sell files to be used exclusively on aluminum. I may have to go back to college and take a 4 year course in file types, just so I can go down street and buy a couple of files for my machine shop.---Brian

Lucky You to find so many bastards and sons of b files. In my home town, I am have a difficult time finding decent files for sale ofver the counter. There are severl that I need but they can't be found and they ARE NOT anyting special! So count yourself lucky6 that you have easy access to a variety.

 

[clockworkcheval]

One of our members is a retired shop manager of Nicholson. He teached us to treat files with the respect due to precision tools. Never throw them in a box or drawer but store them - after cleaning - with the cutting surfaces protected.
A nice variation from Vallorbe is a set of files to use as hardness testers; works well.

 

[Charles Lamont]

IMHO the best files are made in Vallorbe. There was a group (guild?) of makers there, but as I understand it, now all under the Grobet name.

 

[terryd]

I have been struggling along for 14 or 15 years now, using files that I inherited from my father. I actually bought two cheap nasty files that were made in India or China at one point. Today I decided to buy a selection of new files. I never ever knew there were so damned many different kinds of files. There are Bastard files, which seem to be separated into Mill Bastards and Ordinary Bastards. There are files exclusively for use on lathes, and they should be called Son of a ***** files, but they're not. There are coarse files, medium files, and fine files. There are files which have no teeth on the edges, which I have seen referred to as "Safety files". I have phoned four different places to compare prices, and they seem to cost about the same at each place. I see that Nicholson files seem to be highly touted. I see that files come in either a diamond pattern or with all the grooves slanting in one direction only. (It appears that files for use on lathes have a longer slope to the grooves than files that are not used on lathes). Really, I just want ordinary, flat, general purpose files for use on mild steel, but I see that they sell files to be used exclusively on aluminum. I may have to go back to college and take a 4 year course in file types, just so I can go down street and buy a couple of files for my machine shop.---Brian

Hi Brian,

Here's a nice 101 description of files; types and uses.

https://www.theengineerspost.com/types-of-file-tools/
Regards
TerryD

 

[[email protected]]

Hello All;
I was shown by an old time pattern maker, who was in the foundry industry, the trick to filing aluminum. Take a piece of blackboard chalk and rub it into the file before you start cutting. The swarf will come off easily with a file card.

 

[terryd]

Hello All;
I was shown by an old time pattern maker, who was in the foundry industry, the trick to filing aluminum. Take a piece of blackboard chalk and rub it into the file before you start cutting. The swarf will come off easily with a file card.

Hi,
We used to use what we call 'French Chalk' (aka soapstone) to lubricate files and try to prevent 'pinning' (those little bits of metal that clog the file). The powder from Fench chalk is much slippier than normal blackboard chalkand is much more efficient at preventing pinning, and of course the regular use of a file 'card' helps. I use the corner a piece of brass sheet to dig out stubborn 'pins'. I still use it as I was taught in the toolroom apprenticeship over 60 years ago.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engineers-...ords=french+chalk+stick&qid=1676027891&sr=8-5
Regards

TerryD

 

[ShopShoe]

Brian,

I was once in your situation in regards to files when I started moving from repairing into machining and modeling and began upgrading my file collection from then on, so here goes my list:

1. Most of the files you will find follow the "American Pattern" where larger files have larger teeth, so you not only need course and smooth but big and little. There is also the tapering from the handle end to the small end which sometimes throws me off, so I also have ones that are straight and not tapered.

2. Bastard is course, Smoothing is Fine, and the more rare "Second cut" is in-between. Choose some sizes and get all three in those sizes. (I have 12-inch, 8-inch in those and then selected cuts from the 6-inch and smaller range.) Also for general work I suggest some rat-tail files or chainsaw files, half-round files, and triangular files. I also have some of the rarer square files.

3. You want some with the "safety" or no-cut edge. You can grind off the edge of a regular file to make the safety edge.

4. For small details, you need needle files, You can buy them in sets or individually.

5. Most of the "file sets" sold at hardware stores are all 8 to 10 inch length, so I suggest ordering individual files of more variety from a good vendor. They do wear out, so get some extras. For safety's sake, put handles on all the ones you will be using. I even use a pin vise as a handle for needle files.

6. I like the Chalk trick, I also clean my files with a brass "toothbrush" after using. For really stuck pieces of metal, I use a small piece of brass. (Many recommend using a cartridge case.)

7. I have one of the "Lathe" files. I keep with the lathe tooling so as not to confuse it with my other files. It is long for safety's sake so I can keep my hands well away from the chuck. (There is a technique for safely using a file on a running lathe, as there is for using sandpaper, and I often see it not being followed on YouTube.)

Clear as Mud? Happy filing.

--ShopShoe

(P.S.: I have seen some touting of the "Pferd" brand files and some of my sources have increased their stocks of them, so I may try a few in the future, but so far my files are mostly Nicholson brand. No alliances with either company. -SS)

 

[SteamChEng]

I went to the big hit and miss engine swap meet in Portland, IN back in 2008, and there was a guy selling US made files for $4/lb! I bought about $25 worth.

 

[Zeb]

Lucky You to find so many bastards and sons of b files. In my home town, I am have a difficult time finding decent files for sale ofver the counter. There are severl that I need but they can't be found and they ARE NOT anyting special! So count yourself lucky6 that you have easy access to a variety.

Yeh, I've wondered about the oldschool manual machining Boeing complex starting to run dry. They used to have a lot of auctions in the west coast, but not sure if they do as much. You're still probably blessed with ample supplies of US made bridgeports. The further to the heartland, the slimmer the pickings.
I find files are like lawnmowers too. You know how they've been treated and never had ethanol plumbed through if you bought it new. I still manage to hit some big rocks and toys.

One of our members is a retired shop manager of Nicholson. He teached us to treat files with the respect due to precision tools. Never throw them in a box or drawer but store them - after cleaning - with the cutting surfaces protected.

That's how I was taught during my apprenticeship. Whether I followed the rules is another question, but very good advice.

 

[cdn flyr]

Does anyone have a comment on, or experience with, the old technique of sharpening files by soaking then in acid? I seem to recall it was phosphoric. I have never tried it myself. At today's prices, it might be worth looking into. Years ago I bought files from the Boeing surplus store. they appeared to have had this treatment, a dull grey surface finish.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

I just spoke with my main tooling supplier, Majac in Barrie regarding files, and they have a 10" mill bastard fine cut, a 10" mill second cut, and a 10" mill smooth. These files cost an average of $15 each and are all Nicholson files. Total cost for me, including tax is about $102 as I am buying two of each type. One set hangs in my little machine shop, one set hangs out in my main garage beside my big machine vice. All my files have wooden handles and hang on the wall. I have to go out this afternoon to ferry a grand daughter from one high school to another (She's taking sports photo's for their yearbook) and I will pick up my new files while I am out.

 

[KellisRJ]

You might find this helpful in figuring out what you need. Sadly not all are easily found.
https://www.crescenttool.com/media-center/shaping/crescent-nicholson-guide-files-and-filing

 

[Brian Rupnow]

New files are home and color coded. Once I get handles on them, three will hang in my machine shop and three will hang out in my main garage.

 

[oldCB]

You might find this helpful in figuring out what you need. Sadly not all are easily found.
https://www.crescenttool.com/media-center/shaping/crescent-nicholson-guide-files-and-filing

Sweet, thanks!