South Bend 8K photos

[deek]

thanks for the info Hayes. It's nice to see Griz watching what's going on and responding.

And many thanks to Mikbul for his extensive writing on this subject and bringing to light excellent technical information.

I've contacted customer service to resolve the issues I've outlined. Once that's resolved I'll check back in on this forum and let everyone know how it went.

If your post is any indication of Griz's commitment to customer service, then I'm very optimistic of a positive outcome.

deek

 

[mikbul]

Hey Mikbul, I hope you don't mind me posting on your thread. I'll move to a new thread if you'd like. It seems like this is a good spot for discussing the SB1001.

In the spirit of sharing (lol)... here's where I am.

I found a wear spot on the inboard spindle bearing race. Not good. Didn't notice it the first time around. I've contacted Griz. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

I also pointed out to them that they sent me an older manufacture machine while they have newer manufacture machines available. I'll let you know how that goes.

I went to clean the 4 jaw South Bend chuck I ordered at the same time and found the cam plate did not mate with the chuck. The inner ring was not machined to the proper diameter. But hey, I've got a lathe! So I chucked that baby up and turned down the inner ring. Unfortunately, the surfaces of the cam plate and the chuck do not mate as they are not flat. doh.

Then I noticed that the threads in the cam bolt holes were screwed up because of voids in the casting. double doh.

Then I noticed that the mounting holds and their countersinks were out of round and did not align with the chuck. Triple doh.

I've contacted Griz and... I'll let you know how it goes.

Despite the issues, I'm having a ball working through all of this. I know a lot of guys would say I should have gotten old iron, but I really like this lathe. In turning down the cam plate, the lathe worked great. That motor just purrs. If I can get these issues squared away, I'm certain I'll be like a pig in s**t.

deek

Hello Deek, No issues about posting to this thread!
Sorry to hear of your issues. That four inch chuck is not up to the quality of the rest of the lathe. I dropped the bucks for the five inch and what a difference! The five inch is a true cam-lock with no adapter and is what comes on the 10K. I still use the four inch at times though so I must have gotten a better one than you. Since you have the spindle out it's a good time to drill out the ball bearings in the spindle lube fittings and once you have it back up and running turn 2 brass plugs. Lubing the bearings is much easier.
Mikbul

 

[mikbul]

In reading your post again I realized you were talking about a different chuck. I still recommend the South Bend five inch 3 jaw.
Mikbul

 

[deek]

Well, here's the update on the grizzly warranty issues.

Griz sent new bearings which I promptly installed. After getting the old bearings out and installing the new bearings, I went through the spindle break in procedure.

The new bearings are WAY quieter, but I've still got some rattle somewhere. It may or may not be the bearings or may be the motor. I did some research and found there may be issues with the motor for that year build. The run out on the spindle (something like .0001) is much improved, so I'm leaning toward the motor.

In talking to the Griz technicians, they were very helpful with sending parts. I mentioned to the first tech that I was a little miffed to be fixing a build that has known issues and wanted to know why I wasn't sent a newer build.

After several phone calls, grizzly's position is that there are no known manufacturing issues with any of the SB1001s. They don't really even acknowledge that there was grease in the bearings instead of oil. I could not get anyone to answer me why I was sent an older build. In fact, every time I raised the issue, I was either ignored or told that Grizzly stands behind its machines.

At some point, I decided I was just going to send it back and go a different route. That's when things got interesting. Since I initially decided to fix the problem and work on the machine, it's no longer eligible for return because it's used. What happens now is I can box it up, have it shipped to Griz, where they will determine whether or not it's a valid return whereupon they will either fix it or send me another. Since I've already fixed the major issue, I really don't have any confidence that they will find the return "valid." If I hadn't tried to fix the issue, they would have taken the return.

The other fun part is that if I decide to send the machine back, they won't commit to having it done within any period of time. They said they'd do their best, but now I'm out at least another month without the lathe.

So, I can send the lathe back and hope they validate the return, or get tapped for costs. I might get lucky and get a new build, or I might get another 2011 build that has issues, or I might get a repaired lathe.

I told the rep that for the cost of shipping, they could make me feel better about going it alone if they'd send me a coupon for a discount on tooling for a future purchase. But they won't do that until they have the lathe in the shop because, as far as they know, there are no manufacturing issues with that build. I should mention that I all ready sent pictures of the damaged race. That was good enough to send parts, but not sufficient to show issues and get a coupon.

I get that they are trying to avoid fraudulent claims. But I've documented the problems and have spent a lot of time fixing problems on a new machine. They'd rather take the hit shipping the machine and me being without my machine than cut me a break on some tooling.

Topping all that off was the 4- jaw chuck that I returned. They returned my money and cancelled my order. They didn't send a replacement that I requested, so now I have to re-order and the jaw won't be around til mid March.

Yippee.

All in all, I'd say that I haven't had the most positive experience with Grizzly. As always - Caveat Emptor.

I rather like working on machines. I didn't even mind doing some of the warranty work to get to know my machine. But it seems to me that Grizzly could recognize that I'm actually saving them money by trying to make the thing work without relying on shipping back and forth. And as for standing behind the machine, I think Griz should consider standing behind the customer as opposed to an inanimate object.

I'm going to go ahead and track down that rattle and fix the machine myself. Then I'm going to sell it and go with company that stands behind their customers.

Sorry about the long rant guys. I hope it wasn't too boring to get through.

peace
d

 

[mikbul]

Hi Deek,
I've had that rattle that comes and goes but stays the same ever since I've owned mine. I decided to live with it and it's been over a year so I don't pay attention to it anymore.LOL
Mikbul

 

[dexx0008]

Hi Everyone,

This seems to be the place to discuss the SB1001. I am currently deciding if this is the route I should go. I currently have a taig lathe and I am self taught. I still have a LOT to learn and this is definitely a hobby for me. I feel it's time to upgrade my lathe for something a bit larger, has a leadscrew. There have been a few things that just don't fit my little taig. I am still debating if I should sell the taig or keep it around. It's a great little lathe that is pretty accurate.

So far I've looked at 7x 14/16's primarily. Micromark's 7x16 was what i had things narrowed down to before noticing the SB. You are spending about double but feel you are getting a lot more lathe/quality and something that should be my last lathe. The price and specs seem good especially with the discount. I don't want to get a 7x lathe and regret not going with something a bit more heavy. Anything larger than the SB is too large/heavy for me though. I have an engine hoist to help move it if need be.

My concern is ordering one and getting an older build date and then have to spend quite a bit of time pulling the bearings or not being able to spot a defect from not being knowledgeable enough. I've just about pulled the trigger a few times. I hoping that if I do you guys would be willing to help get me up and running/give advice if need be.

Those of you that had purchased one, would you do it again or look at something else, and why?

great threat btw, certainly the most detailed of all the SB1001 threads I've read.

thanks,
Ryan

ps. @mikbul: I was just at harbor freight earlier this week and spotted those brass/wood planes. I picked myself up a set too. I then saw you have them and liked them, I agree with your assessment of them

 

[deek]

Hey Ryan, welcome to the forum. It's a great place for information.

I've had a chance to use my lathe a bit after getting it all fixed up and it does a nice job. The 1.5 hp motor is really powerful. I've stalled it, but I was pushing pretty hard on steel. The fit and finish on the SB1001 is really pretty good and it fits in my work envelope. I made some threads and it was a bit tedious getting the gears changed, but I don't really do that many threads, so that's not a big point for me. I faced a 6" steel round and turned down a 1/4" brass bushing and the lathe performed very well.

As happy as I am with the lathe, I'm thoroughly disappointed in Grizzly and will not buy anything from them again. I'd rather find a vendor that takes care of its customers than save a few bucks.

If you do decide to get the SB1001, I would make my order dependent on a build no later than 2013. Those builds apparently have no issues. I'd make the order on the phone and insist it be put in writing. Make sure they send you a confirmation email and if that stipulation is not on the email, ask them to resend with the stipulation. That way, you are bargaining for a specific build and have recourse if they do not send it... keeping in mind they may decide not to sell you a lathe under that condition. If it got to my home with the 2011 build, I'd send it right back. (This does not constitute legal advice by the way.)

I would not buy the 4 jaw chuck or any other accessory from Grizzly. I know Mikbul got the 5" 3-jaw chuck and is very happy with it. I got a Burnerd 3 jaw 5" chuck and am exceedingly happy with it. I had to turn the adapter plate, but that was just fun. I also have a 3 jaw hardinge chuck that needs an adapter turned, but I'm not sure I'm going to keep it, so that will wait a bit. The 3 jaw that comes with the lathe is just not very good.

Shame on Grizzly for not owning the build issue and never admitting there was a problem even though it has been documented on this and other sites.

Like with every corporate entity, take what you need and leave them behind. Geez, I didn't realize how upset I still was until I started writing about this.:wall:

Final verdict from me: The Lathe is excellent. The service is sub-par.

Peace and have fun.
deek

 

[dexx0008]

Deek,

interesing response

From what I've gathered on various forums etc that grizzly does typically have pretty good support. It sounds like Grizzly is not publishing/publicly acknowledging what seems to be a batch problem but they are honoring warranty and haven't left anyone out to dry yet. I have mixed feelings on this and have dealt with this kind of thing.

So I'm thinking
1. the lathe is worth it but there is a risk you'll find grease in the bearings depending on build so add a few extra steps to properly set it up
2. It's a pretty great/accurate lathe given size/price. You won't do much better without spending quite a bit more. treated properly it will last a long long time.
3. I'll need to invest in a a quality 5" chuck
4. It would be a good idea to get a nice quick change tool post, perhaps something from little machine shop? tomach or oxa?

I'm leaning more and more towards getting one but will likely wait til mid week next week before ordering since I'm headed out of town for a bit.

I'll need grizzly's lift gate service and I have access to my neighbors engine hoist to get it on my bench. the interesting part will be getting it up my driveway. It's not a long driveway but 260+ lbs is a bit to move around (for me, i'm not a big guy)

I should probably create some sort of d1-3 to 3/4-16 adapter so I can use my collet set from my taig, and my 4 jaw chuck to get me by before investing in a quality 5" 3 jaw chuck.

I'd love to hear recommendations for chucks/tooling/toolposts
sounds like mikbul likes the 5" 3 jaw southbend from grizzly
deek, you like your Burnerd chuck?

I understand little machine shop gives good service and has decent products.

anyplace else I should look?

thanks,
Ryan

 

[mikbul]

I wouldn't let the bearing issue be a deciding factor, after all, the price was dropped way down and cleaning out any grease is easy, but, getting a 2013 is a better bet. I have to completely disagree about the South Bend 5" three jaw chuck, it's a work of art and is very repeatable. It's the same chuck that comes on the 10K. I agree that if you need a four jaw they don't offer a South Bend four jaw unless you put an adapter on like the three jaw. Also I have a thread on the Practical Machinist that you might like to look at. Some of the posts are similar but there's more info on there I believe, and my friend with the 10K is a hoot.
Mikbul

 

[mikbul]

Here's my 8K set up in the shop with a Tormach OXA quick change that bolts right on from The Little Machine Shop, works great.
Mikbul

 

[deek]

I have the tormach OXA from LMS. It's pretty good, but needs to have the bottom of the post lapped to make it really flat. I got a couple of extra #1 tool holders with it.

I also got the bison 5c collet chuck with an adapter plate. It was a simple operation to get it set up. I like the bison a lot.

I really like my Burnerd chuck. I got it used and it's beautiful. I trust Mikbul's judgement on the southbend 5". I was going to go that direction until I decided to boycott grizzly permanently. I like bison, burnerd, and hardinge chucks.

I got a skoda live center off ebay. I think ebay can be a good place to get stuff if you read carefully, examine the pictures, and contact the seller. Having said that, there's not much warranty and occasionally I get a not so good deal.

I've been using the 3/8" insert holder tool set from AR warner. They use the TCMT and TCGT inserts. I'm learning my way around these tools, but so far, I'm pretty happy with the results. I may try a 1/2" holder and see if that improves the quality of finish and whether the inserts are less expensive.

I shop at LMS, Enco, McMaster, Amazon, Ebay, and Craigs. Just depends on how quickly I need something and who has what I need.

 

[dexx0008]

Here's my 8K set up in the shop with a Tormach OXA quick change that bolts right on from The Little Machine Shop, works great.
Mikbul

I've read both threads It's a nice setup you have.

I've pretty much decided if I'm going to get a new lathe I'm going to go with the 8k over micromark 7x16. I'll probably call grizzly when i order late this week/early next and see if I can ensure I can get a late model build but I'm guessing it will be luck of the draw. If it does i'll just deal with what arrives. I already have a first project in mind after break-in.

I'm still undecided on if I should keep my taig or not. It might be nice to keep for a while since i have an index plate already mounted and that might come in handy. Here's a pic of it back when i first got it (quite a while ago) after just mounting the index plate. I didn't even have a set pin for the index plate yet. This is not the bench it will be mounted to as i took that apart for more tool space.

I'll be placing it on a free waterloo bench i was given. Similar to this: mine just has two drawers on the right and left side has a shelf. I'm wondering if i should put something to cover the mdf thats on there. It is pretty solid and over 1" thick.

 

[dexx0008]

craigslist is an option. There are a few re-sellers in the area (Minneapolis) that seem to watch craigslist and tend to move on things quickly though. I Just have to keep watching patiently.

Any opinion on a radius cutter for the 8k?

http://www.micromark.com/radius-cutting-tool-for-85181-micro-lathe,10395.html

I'd like up to a 2" capacity for cutting shift knobs.

 

[deek]

I've put in quite a few hours with my 8k lathe and I have to say that it's running rather nicely. I have decided to ditch the tormach quick post tool holder. It really isn't rigid enough to do steel. I noticed that I'm getting a lot of flex during turning operations. I've tried about everything to make it work properly, but it just doesn't rigidly hold the tool.

I'm looking at an aloris now because I don't want to buy again. I think Mikbul put on the AXA size, but aloris now has an MXA-IP tool holder that looks interesting. If anyone has any insight on that holder, I'd love to hear about it.

But on to the tailstock. I was drilling a center on a piece of round stock with the tailstock when the tailstock just ground to a halt. I say "ground" because I heard a grinding noise just as it stopped advancing.

I stopped the work and disassembled the tailstock. I had to use my wooden mallet to get the quill out as it was jammed. When I got everything apart, the photo shows the top locking barrel nut. As you can see in the photo, the casting is just swiss cheese crap. This reminds me of my southbend 4 jaw chuck experience. I mean really... when you have this thing in your hand before assembly, how do you not throw it in the trash?

Anyway, I cleaned out all the rubble and casting that was everywhere. Unfortunately, my quill is scored as is the tailstock cylinder. I've contacted grizzly for a waranty replacement of the tailstock. I'll let you all know how it goes.

If I get a new tailstock, I'm going to take it apart and inspect the casting. If I don't like it, I may just make a new nut from steel or perhaps brass. We'll see how griz handles this.

deek

 

[deek]

I had informed griz of the casting, the grinding noise I heard, and the damage to the quill and tailstock barrel.

Here's an excerpt from the response I got from Grizzly regarding the bad casting:

"Thank you for your email dated February 18, 2015

I am sorry to hear that you are having difficulties with your SB1001 South Bend Lathe. I apologize for any confusion on our part, but the part pictured is the bottom side of the lower quill lock. We are trying to determine how these pieces traveled up beyond the lower quill lock to be able to reach the quill and barrel of the tailstock casting. Can you provide a picture of the quill and if possible, the damage to the barrel of the tailstock?

Regarding replacing the tailstock, this would not be the best option in all honesty. Each tailstock is ground to the particular lathe that it is being mounted to, so some modifications might be required if the entire assembly was to be replaced. If the issues can be polished out of the barrel of the tailstock, replacing the quill would be the best route, to maintain the same level of accuracy.

Once we have more information, we can assist you further. You are a valued customer, and we look forward to hearing from you soon."

I've left off the name of the person that wrote the email. No sense in making this personal.

It's amusing to me that they question how the casting got into the quill area and not that the casting looked like swiss cheese. Their response, in other words, is to have me prove to them the damage from a clearly faulty part before they can take action. So, they can't see from the picture that the casting is horrible and say, for example, send out a new part as well as ask for additional information? Nope. They need to have more facts because they can't figure out how those nasty castings could have made it to the quill. Here's one possibility - the casting were thrown around during the 3 year wait that the machine had until it hit my doorstep and managed to get into the quill area. Here's another - the castings worked their way up the threads since there was more than enough room in the threaded section to allow passage of the castings into the quill. And that took me just 30 seconds to figure out.

Oh, and let's not send a new tailstock... let's have the customer polish the barrel of the tailstock and send over a new quill because otherwise it would be just too inaccurate to have a new taillstock sent over since each tailstock is matched to the machine... because the quality control is just that good.

I mean seriously, is this the way to demonstrate what a "valued" customer I am?

For the record, I tried to take a picture of the barrel of the tailstock and my camera just isn't up to it. I can seem to get a good focus on the inside of a barrel.

Here's my suggestion for a letter to me:

"I am sorry to hear that you are having difficulties with your SB1001 South Bend Lathe. We'll send a part out right away to replace that defective casting and get you rolling.

We'd like to spend some further time figuring out how this happened so we can avoid this kind of thing in the future. Would you mind sending us a picture or two of your barrel and quill? We'd also like to speak with you on the phone and get your feedback on what may have gone wrong so we can better serve you.

As to your suggestion of a new tailstock, we'd like to make you aware that each tailstock is milled to the particular lathe for accuracy. If the current tailstock is serviceable, it may be better to polish the tailstock barrel and replace the quill. We'd like to speak with you in person to make sure you understand all the issues involved.

Thank you for your patience. We will work to resolve this and any other issues that arise with your lathe."

That wasn't so hard was it?

Is this dialog helpful? I'll stop posting what is going on if a significant number of readers so indicate. I just think it's useful to know what the practices are of a company that supplies the hobbyist market.

 

[mikbul]

Hi Deek!
I had a bunch of foreign material in my tailstock and had to disassemble it and soak it in cleaner. I wouldn't worry about any low spots inside the barrel, they'll catch oil and that's good. If you have any high spots a small fine brake master cylinder or wheel hone will take care of that, just keep the hone oiled well and one pass then check for high spots or burrs that would scratch the new quill.
Mikbul

 

[Stieglitz]

Hi Mikbul,
Great looking lathe and what an orderly workshop,good inspiration.Do great things.
Cheers.

 

[Pierkemo]

Hello Mikbul,

Nice work, i learn about this pictures!
Thanks,
Pierkemo

 

[mikbul]

Hi Mikbul,
Great looking lathe and what an orderly workshop,good inspiration.Do great things.
Cheers.

Thanks,
It gets messy sometimes!
Mikbul

 

[mikbul]

Hello Mikbul,

Nice work, i learn about this pictures!
Thanks,
Pierkemo

I'm happy the thread is still going and is helpful.
Mikbul