Shopwares Machines

[Tin Falcon]

you would lose some button function but if you go with mach 3 (others may have similar features) you get an on screen jog a simulated pendant Or you can hook up an x -box controller or any number of other available pendant. I use an x box controller.
Tin

 

[metalshaper]

OK, My Nerbness must be really showing?? :-[

went to the Mach3 site and can't figure out what/where the trial download is?
does anybody have the link?

I now have a computer/monitor set up by the lathe. Gonna try seeing if I can configure the pin settings (of M3 ) and see if it'll jog anything??

Thanks again, for all the help!! :bow:

Respect Always
Jonathan/Metalshaper

 

[DICKEYBIRD]

http://www.machsupport.com/downloads.php

Use the top "lockdown" version. Does your PC have a separate video card? It should to run Mach.

Make sure to download and save all the manual .pdf's. They are a great CNC training course.

Good luck & keep us posted!

 

[metalshaper]

DB,

Thanks!!

My son set up that lil computer for me, while I was at work. He even came up with a version of Mach3
from somewhere?? so it was there when I got home..

Not sure of where he got the M3, but I don't think it was fully installed? ( he might have missed something?? ) anyway, I thought I'd just try it again tonight!!

Onwards!!!! ;D

Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[metalshaper]

DB, Tin, N4, Techo

Thanks all!! I now have the trial Mach3 loaded. It has identified the port and pins.
I was away most of the evening and now its after 10pm, so I'm not gonna try to
do anything else.

Tomorrow, I'll see if I can get the pins to match up and see if by any chance.. M3 will
will bring the beast alive??

Stay tuned!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Tin Falcon]

be cautious it looks like from your investigation that the DB25 on your little cnc lathe is serial ports I imagine rs 232. the mach 3 controller uses a parallel port also DB25 these are not compatible connections.
http://www.arcelect.com/rs232.htm

http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/cable/parallel.html

 

[metalshaper]

Tin,

OK, Since I'm a real New.. let me ask this?? and I appologize if I'm not using the right Speak!! :-[

Since there is a lil Serial I/O port attacthed inside on the board.. and is
wired through the 25pin connector on the side of the machine???

Could I get by by adding a USB to serial connector and go directly to the board?? ( not bothering with the 25 pin ) and then configure Mach 3 to use
a usb output < if it will > to serial???? configuring all to the way the pins are on the lil serial port at the board....

and looking back at the pin selections I found.. Best guess at to what they might be??

I may just be WAY in over my head???


Respect Always

Jonathan

 

[Admiral_dk]

For Gods sake DO NOT connect an RS232 port to the parallel port => fried PC.

Mach 3 is a great program, but it will NOT work with RS232 in any way as far as I know ....

I'm guessing that you didn't have any luck Google'ing the controller board for a manual - am I right ?

If you want to try and run the machine as is - connect the serial port on the CNC to a serial on the PC. This is tricky, but not impossible -start by identifying the ground pin in each end.

With a continuity tester check the connection between the chassis on the CNC and pin 7, they should be connected. On the PC end - if you have a 9 pin connector, it should be 5 and if you got a 25 pin serial port on the PC (DO NOT confuse it with the parallel port) it should be pin 7.

When you've identified the two ground pins, solder them together on each end of the cable. We'll start with the simplest serial solution first.

If the PC end is a 9 pin :
PC pin to CNC pin
2 Rx ----- 2 Tx = Transmit
3 Tx ----- 3 Rx = Receive
5 GND ---- 7 GND

If you got a 25 pin connector in each end :
PC pin to CNC pin
2 Tx ----- 3 Rx
3 Rx ----- 2 Tx
7 GND ---- 7 GND

You're now ready for the first test with for instance Hyper Terminal (not a god program, but it's already installed on a Windows XP PC under accessories, communication.
Hyper Terminal will ask you for country code - ignore this, since we're not using a modem. It will then ask for a name - type anything from one letter onwards.
It will then ask witch Com port - if you only got one, it's most likely Com1. My guess will be 9600 Baud, 8 bit, No parity bit, 1 stop bit (9600, 8, N, 1) and no Flow control.

Press the enter key and look for a response, if nothing happens, press ? followed by pressing the enter key.
If the response is garbage or nothing happens, close the connection in the program and try another Baud rate - on old equipment any thing from 1200 to 19200 Baud is a likely rate.

If this doesn't bring any luck, we'll have to start messing with the flow controll pins - there's of cause also the possibility that it only responds to G-codes, but I would expect an error message if it's not satisfied with your commands and ? = help me / show me commands.

Best wishes

Per

 

[Tin Falcon]

you may be able to communicate with hyper terminal. But likely the better route to go at this points is just replace the electronics.
There are lots of options including ones that do not require soldering.
Unfortunately the gecko web page seems to be down there is lots of good info there.
The other thing to think about is what motors do you have are they square or round .
The square ones are better.
I wish I was closer to help but Am not.
Here is how I did my cnc builds hope this helps

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=4054.15


http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8452.0

http://www.cncsources.net/

Tin

 

[metalshaper]

OK,

I have to bow to all the experience here :bow: but I also have to admit to a bit of confusion. Nothing new to me, but at least I can admit it.

back in the thread, when I said my son had set up the computer and stuff for me.. and had a version of M3 loaded?? He also had all the equipment, including the lathe connected. and when I got home he proudly went down to the shop and turned "everything"on to show me!!!

No magic smoke happened?? and the computer still runs?? I had eventually disconnected the port cable, when I unistalled CJ's attempt at M3 and loaded the one I downloaded. SO that is my confusion??? Did I just get lucky??
was it that C's version wasn't a full install and hadn't sent anything through/to the ports?? Now I'm afraid to hook anything back up!! :-\

Feel free to scoff at my floundering.. I'm not ashamed to admit my limitations, when it comes to elctronics/computers... Heck I mainly build BP rifles from scratch ( with mostly hand tooling ) so I'm not exactly set up/running a High Tech shop..

Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[techonehundred]

Let me see if I can confuse the situation even more. Here is how I understand things. Ports are used to transfer bits of information from one device to another. Serial and parallel ports do it differently. Most of the traffic wants to transfer 8bit bytes. A parallel port will have 8 different pins to transfer the 8 bit byte(a device may not use all of them, but they are there). a bit is a 1 or a 0. In a parallel port, a 1 is represented by voltage, usually 5 volts, and a 0 is represented by 0 volts. So you can look at each wire as a switch.
Serial ports communicate differently. They set up a timing rate(Baud rate) and usually transfer 8 bits on one wire(Think of it as a Telegraph wire with dots and dashes).
So you can see that the ports work very differently than each other and cannot be interchanged. One of the other problems with Serial ports is that they use a higher voltage(up to 15). So the worry is that the 15 volts might overwhelm the motherboard on the computer. Probably not if the motherboard is designed properly, but is a possibility.
I would try the pins on the lathe and see if any of them show a voltage of more than 5 volts with it powered up. With Serial port printed on the Circuit board, it's a good bet that it actually is a serial port. I don't think that Mach works with serial ports, so you will probably have to ditch the board and come up with some stepper drivers that will work with Mach.

 

[metalshaper]

Techo,

Thanks!! I'll take all the info that has been presented < by everyone > and I'll "work" through what is there! this is gonna take a bit, because I have to learn as I go..IF I don't get back to this thread for a while.. it's because i'm still wading through the process..

Sending CJ off to College next fall puts a crimp in the fun budget.. so I was hoping I'd get lucky? IF nothing else there is still a decent lil lathe at the core
of things.

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Admiral_dk]

Jonathan : I feel that you've been a bit scarce with info, like the fact that you already had the cables - had I known, I wouldn't have wasted time to warn you about connecting a RS323 to a Parallel port, for the simple reason that the serial cable can't be plugged into the parallel port, since they both are females (luck has nothing to do with that).

You never answered my question - did you discover any manual or who made the controller board inside the CNC and what model ?

Tin : It has never been my intention to do any metal work with Hyper Terminal - but simply to establish the communication protocol to the CNC. We need to know how to communicate with the CNC, before we'll have a chance to select what software that will work with it.

 

[metalshaper]

Ad-K

My apologies for wasting anyone's time! :-[ I appreciate the attempts to help me out, in spite of myself..

No manual at all!! and the board only says Shopware machines inc,, and SMI5100-04 the original company SMI is LONG gone as a result of the originator passing away..

I've bugged the crap out of the Shop teacher, that was scrapping the unit : < lucky he's my Bud > seems the school went through a "throw the baby out with the water" phase.. where they were updating computers and did a clean sweep while everyone was gone during a summer?? Their IT guy was instructed to get rid of everything old and no concern was given to practical uses of anything down the road??

I've had a friend from one of the other forums I'm on.. and who is an elctronics guy by profession.. he suggests I sit down and MAP the board and connections.. researching each chip,diode, resistor and whatnot to see if we can make sense of what's there.

as hopeless as I seem to some, I'm actually learning a Bunch as I go! even if it becomes a gut and refit, the process is interesting to me. figure it as a Stop learning, start rotting sort of thing??? Part of the problem I see, is ( other than I don't know what i'm doing) is I don't know how to ask the right questions.. or at least put it into some sort of "Tech Speak"

I have appreciated everyone's Help , while I fumble along with this.

Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[DICKEYBIRD]

Jonathan, sounds like you're in the same hobby-stuff financial boat I'm in: Riding so low the water's lapping over the gunwales. I feel your pain brother!

It is kinda fun though, making do with what we have or stuff we can scrounge on the ultra-cheap. My Dad was a depression era feller and was that way so I guess the acorn didn't fall far from the tree!

My little Denford MicroMill had a serial control and I tried mightily to get it to work with a free DOS download from Denford that was an early Fanuc product. I found it was so cryptic and so *WAY* over my head that I gave up. Fortunately, my controller's serial interface sub-board was removable and underneath it were the pins that allowed input of the individual step & direction signals. I was very lucky.

Unless your board has a similar feature or you have someone available close by that's very familiar with serial controls, you'd be a lot better off switching to a parallel port controller so that one of the hobby level software programs will work. It's hard enough (for me) getting this stuff to work WITH a program that is widely used and discussed on the internet. I think most (if not all) serial controls are used in commercial equipment and training systems.

 

[metalshaper]

DB,

Yep, that pretty much describes it!! I've always considered my shop expenses to be a very LOW priority. IF it means I get a new Shiny or I have to take something from the family?? well, I don't get the new Shiny! My Wife is just the same! Honestly, I'd probably be shamed to know all that she gives up, so the rest of us can have whatever ?? :-[

I'm accused of getting more pleasure from the 'work' it takes to make something.. rather than the actual use of it! Marlow, my shop teacher bud, thinks I have an unusual affection for files!! My family thinks I am Clamp and Hammer happy?? and weirdly fond of rescuing any of them from Flea markets and such??? and YES, at a flea I did find/get a nice set of 3 Starret machinist clamps once!!!! ( 10 ) ;D

Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[n4zou]

Personally; I would have gutted the old electronics by now. Considering EMC and it's underlying OS are free and can operate on an "old" computer and the easy availability of modern stepper motor driver boards compatible with it. Read about EMC and Ubuntu at the link below. I've been using Ubuntu for a few years. I'm using it right now. Ubuntu is really not difficult at all to setup and use.

Welcome to the community maintained website of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Project

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl

 

[metalshaper]

N4,

See the above I was ' Hoping ' to do this without asking much from the family budget?? IF it comes down to a gut, then I'll have to weigh the options?

I do have a working lathe already... this would just be a fun extra to have!

Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[n4zou]

If your Shopwares lathe is going to end up costing you too much I'll be happy to pay for a shipping box and UPS if you'd send it to me ;D

 

[techonehundred]

I would try something like this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TB6560-3-Axis-CNC-Motor-Stepper-Driver-3A-12-36V-/120737868573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1c89ab1d#ht_785wt_905
Not too much and would give you something to play with. Also, there is a good chance that you could use the power supply that is already on your lathe. So not too much invested.