Shopwares Machines

[Admiral_dk]

Hi John

I'm almost 100% sure it's a serial RS232 port (the pins used and the pin 6 to 8 jumper is a dead giveaway), so for gods sake DO NOT connect it to a Parallel Port, because there's a chance that you'll fry the PC in the process !!!!

And for the same reason, be careful, but not paranoid - just take care. The RS232 Port is reasonably protected in it self (unlike the Parallel Port).

All older PCs got a Com Port that's an RS232 port - the really old ones used a 25 pin and the never ones use a 9 pin connector. If you computer doesn't have one - get a USB to RS232 adapter.

The best you can do is to trace the original manual for it - remember : Google is your friend !
If Googling the machine itself doesn't help you, try to Google the controller - it's rather unlikely that there's no manufactor / brandname + model printed somewhere on the PCB.

If this isn't a success, we'll take the next steps together.

The 4 power resistors are there so it's possible to run the circuit on a higher voltage than the motor in it self can, while getting a higher max speed from the higher voltage.

Best wishes.

Per

 

[DICKEYBIRD]

DB,

at that 5 wire port connection it says - Serial I/O port..

I can try to get a pic later if you still need one??

Respect Always
Jonathan

Ah, OK...I thought it may have been the board manufacturer's model #. Mine said "Smartstep/3" and I was able to find lots of good info via Google as Per suggested.

Look it over very closely and see if you can find any ID info.

My Denford MicroMill controller had a proprietary serial/security card plugged into it but after removing that I was able to locate all the step/direction pins & get it working via the parallel port with TurboCNC.

I think serial's a real pain unless you understand all that e-leck-tronical communifications stuff. :'(

Milton

 

[GailInNM]

Back in 1986 or thereabouts the Albuquerque Public Schools had some CNC lathes that were very similar. Now keep in mind that I can't remember what I had for breakfast any more, but this is what I remember about them. I had little to do with them except that my son was in the machining class. He and one other student were the only ones that ever made a part on them.

It was a stored program machine. You uploaded the program to the lathe and then ran it. It had a serial input that was driven by a cassette recorder converter box. That part never worked. We hooked up my laptop, a NEC running DOS, and were able to transfer programs to the lathe and save the stored from the lathe with it. Used a DB25 cable to the serial port. Used Q Modem as I recall using X-off and X-on control.

The command set was simplified G code as I recall, or at least close enough that I could read it and edit the sample programs that were in the manual. The sample programs had errors in them and would not work unless edited.

That is about all that I remember. May not be the same machine. I think that the CNC control buttons were to set the X and Z axis by touching off on the stock, run the program, hold and maybe a couple of other things.

What do the buttons at the lower left of the front view of your machine labeled. I can't read them in the photo. If by chance it is the same machine that might jog some memories.

Gail in NM

 

[metalshaper]

DB,

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6100521.jpg

here is the shot you asked for. Not the best but it's the best angle/light I could get??


Gail,

thanks for the info.. everything helps!!! the 5 buttons on the lower right are as follows,( the words are actually arrows )

Z in
left X X right Manual
Z out computer

Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[GailInNM]

Jonathan,
What I wanted was the labeling on the buttons on the lower left. I had the lower right figured out as the manual controls.
Gail in NM

 

[Tin Falcon]

Hmm a horse of a different color . I was wondering if the port was for a peripheral to load a program.
Like I said before worst case scenario is ditch the electronics and mount a gecko 540 add a smooth stepper and you can hook to usb. It would be nice to get it funning as is though.
Tin

 

[metalshaper]

DB,

My Bad!! :


they are from left to right..

Cancel Continue pause X zero Y zero

Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[Tin Falcon]

Not much info on the WWW
Macona on the Home shop machinist board cam across of these machines 3 or so years ago. Manuals but no software or card.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=32283
I get involved some with rs 232 communications in my job .
we use it to drive remote displays and printers from scale indicators.
We even set up two indicators about a half mile apart via rs232
We sometimes use hyperlink to check stuff but to receive an input.


Tin

 

[n4zou]

A serial port indicates this machine has an on-board processor which can be seen in the pictures. This mandates propitiatory software which is probably unavailable and even if you could find it, it may not be compatible with modern computers. Considering the age of this lathe I'll bet this machine was setup to use a Commodore 64 computer. At this point I would simply gut the electronics and replace them with suitable stepper motor control boards which can be driven with a modern computer. This Instructables article provides a simple 2 chip per stepper motor driver control circuit. This would be the simplest way to put this lathe back in service.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-build-CNC-Mill-Stepper-Motor-and-Driver-ci/?images#images

Link to control board drawing in PDF format.
http://www.instructables.com/files/orig/FX6/0KDG/F6B7SXUN/FX60KDGF6B7SXUN.pdf

 

[n4zou]

I found exactly what you need to modernize the electronics of your lathe.
EasyDriver Stepper Motor Driver

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10267
They cost just $15 each.

 

[Tin Falcon]

John: if you do decide to install new electronics do your homework there are lots of options lots of folks with home brew boards Plans etc ans well as good values commercial products,. there is a long list of possibilities in my what is needed for CNC thread.
I have never heard anything bad bout gecko drives the 540 is real nice but may be a bit of overkill it have 4 axis and you realy only need two. you can get the gecko 251 drive for $50 each but you will need to add a breakout board. make sure you get an opto isolated board and a charge pump is a good idea as well. xlotec will work but they will give out magic smoke and die if you over volt them just a little.
More later
Tin

 

[Tin Falcon]

http://www.imsrv.com/ comes to the big shows nice stuff but servo based and a bit pricey for me. Like I said servo bases not stepper.
cnc4pc. has some interesting products I would probably look for some reviews before a major purchase I and eying a couple of there relay boards.
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=161
Tin

 

[metalshaper]

N4 and Tin,

Can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help and suggestions!! I certainly gives me a lot to think about and a lot to LEARN

I'm a real nerb, when it comes to electronics and all that. Heck I was thinking I was doing good, when I soldered together a PWM kit! I had started a power feed project for my X2, right before I got handed this Shopwares lathe.
( see I'm pre CNC )

I'm not in a big hurry, so I can afford to take my time and work through all the isues and possibilities. I still have my 6X12 AA Craftsman, so it's not like I'm without a lathe.

Keep the ideas coming this way. Every lil bit helps me!!


Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[n4zou]

That's what I like about the EasyDriver Stepper Motor Driver board. All the hard work has been done for you. The only connections required is power, stepper motor, and computer data lines. Personally, I would solder pins to the boards for plugging them into solder-less breadboard like the one below.

Using a solder-less breadboard allows easy 'plug and play' building and upgrading later. It also really cuts down on the soldering required.

 

[techonehundred]

I am curious to see how this goes. Though one concern I have with the easy driver board, is the small current capacity. It only is rated for 750ma. You may be hard pressed finding a suitable stepper motor with enough power to do what you want.

 

[metalshaper]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6100524.jpg

Here is the faceplate, for one of the motors.. So at 3.1 amp, the two motors on board may be too much for the one style of controller?? ( again, what do I know? )

a lot smaller V-input than I thought it'd be?? ( see above : )

Digging myself in a bit deeper!

Thanks and
Respects always

Jonathan

 

[techonehundred]

That stepper motor has a 3.1 amps per phase. the older motors used more current than some of the newer ones, so you could find newer ones with about 1.5 to 2 amps per phase, but still not small enough for those drivers. Those motors also have only 100 oz/in of torque. My preferrence for your mill would be closer to 200. You could probably get by for now with 100, but may need to do a 2 to 1 ration with a timing belt(it would be slower, but safer). The gecko drivers mentioned earlier have a max current rating of 3.5 amps and would work well with the motors you have. As for the voltage input, steppers are a different beast. the drivers always over volt the steppers. so many drivers will work with a 70 volt power to a 2 volt per phase motor. There are some good engineers on this site and others that can explain this much better than I.
Just some ideas for thoughts. I really tried early on to see if I could do one on almost no budget, but ended up spending almost what I could have bought the right parts for and still did not have a good working project. I don't really like to be the negative one, but I hate to see someone lose interest on a fun hobby because they did not have workable parts to begin with.

A couple of Websites that have been helpful to me.
www.pminmo.com
www.cnccookbook.com

 

[metalshaper]

Techo,

Thanks for the info!!

the piece of equipment I'm woking on is a Teaching "Lathe" unit. I may have added in some confusion when I mentioned the power feed project on my X2?? My Bad if that is the case :-[ I'd assume if the machine came with 100in/oz motors, it must be able to run it??? and hopefully I'd not need to change them out??

this old Shopware Machine inc unit, comes as an all in one. I was hoping by some slim chance, I'd be able to jackleg around the software issue and get it to run "as is" unfortunately the school and my bud had long misplaced any of the software for their machines ( changed IT guys and the old one runnoft with a lot of the old discs ) as a matter of fact, I think they have an newer SM5110 that just sits in the shop lab, unused :'(

anyway, I'm reading up, learning what I can and planning what if any move I have!! Now, the great thing about this "Learning Experience" is.. it will set me up nicely for when I finally do want a full out CNC conversion on my Sieg!!

How cool would that be??

Thanks to all!!

Respect Always
Jonathan

 

[DICKEYBIRD]

Jonathan 100 oz/in will do fine on that lathe. My Denford Micro has a Sherline mill with only 85 oz/in motors and it does fine. The maximum jog speed will be slower than on more modern machines but let's face the facts, there's just not much travel on that little lathe.

Dave Rigotti's HobbyCNC board kit lists max amperage at 3.0 per axis but you'll probably never use full power running a small lathe. It may even handle more power with a dedicated cooling fan. Email Dave that picture of the stepper motor and see what he thinks. He's a good guy.

http://www.hobbycnc.com/products/hobbycnc-ez-driver-board-kit/

 

[techonehundred]

Ok, should have gone back and reread the entire thread. :wall: I think that I would probably just keep the motors and use them. All of the mounts and hardware is setup. the Gecko G51's will be perfect size to control those motors. The problem that I see is when replacing the board, you lose the functionality of all of the buttons. I am not sure, but it might be good to look at www.cnc4pc.com and see if they have a keyboard emulator. This might make them usable in Mach3 as jogging inputs.