Setting up Shop Questions - from an NZ learner

[joco-nz]

Hows it going with the lathe and the mill ?

Order should be going in Monday/Tuesday this week. I just need to sort out the delivery details with Machinery House. I need to make sure they can get the crates into my garage off their truck and that they are not going to expect ME to have a forklift or equivalent.

In theory it shouldn't be a problem as my garage segmented door is 1.5 car lengths from the street curb. But I'm not going to start a ~$5000 order on theory. :hDe:

Cheers,
James.

 

[rodw]

Order should be going in Monday/Tuesday this week. I just need to sort out the delivery details with Machinery House. I need to make sure they can get the crates into my garage off their truck and that they are not going to expect ME to have a forklift or equivalent.

In theory it shouldn't be a problem as my garage segmented door is 1.5 car lengths from the street curb. But I'm not going to start a ~$5000 order on theory. :hDe:

Cheers,
James.

I hired an engine crane to get my machines into final position. Machinery house said sling it around the chuck and through the webbing in the lathe bed. They said Lift it off the ground and then put it down again to allow the slings to self adjust and lift again. Worked a treat. They sell the slings so maybe see if they can throw 2 of them into the deal. Or just drop over the ditch and borrow mine

Don't forget to grab a 4 litre bottle of kerosene and paint brush to clean it up.

 

[imagineering]

James, I don't know which Lathe you are getting as yet. I have the AL-336D that Bruce has told you about. In the Chinglish Manual, they tell you the correct point at which to wrap a single Sling. That point is around the Bed, (not around the Chuck)!!!!, the lathe can then be balanced by moving the Tailstock in or out. I used an Engine Lifter to lift the Lathe above Bench height and then assembled the Stand to the Lathe before trundling the whole assembly into position. Having said that, I don't know if you are buying the Mach House Stand to go with your Lathe. If you are getting a Lathe with DRO, use a chunk of 100X50 next to the X-Axis Scale to avoid crushing it.

Murray.
.

 

[joco-nz]

James, I don't know which Lathe you are getting as yet. I have the AL-336D that Bruce has told you about. In the Chinglish Manual, they tell you the correct point at which to wrap a single Sling. That point is around the Bed, (not around the Chuck)!!!!, the lathe can then be balanced by moving the Tailstock in or out. I used an Engine Lifter to lift the Lathe above Bench height and then assembled the Stand to the Lathe before trundling the whole assembly into position. Having said that, I don't know if you are buying the Mach House Stand to go with your Lathe. If you are getting a Lathe with DRO, use a chunk of 100X50 next to the X-Axis Scale to avoid crushing it.

Murray.
.

Game plan is the AL-320G. While the 336D would be ideal it's just way more $$ for a first lathe than I can justify. I think the 320G is a good balance of capability and price.

As to the moving, yes will hire an engine crane to do the business. The plan is to build my own stand, something a bit more stable than the stock one and also with drawers and space at the back for holding some steel stock on shelves. This will work as I will have access to the rear of it. I'm taking inspiration from Rod's stand build as well others from the net. It's just an excuse for more welding!
Cheers J.

 

[joco-nz]

It's done. Order placed.
AL-320G is in stock.
BF20LV is on back order due 15 October.


woohoo1

 

[rodw]

James, I don't know which Lathe you are getting as yet. I have the AL-336D that Bruce has told you about. In the Chinglish Manual, they tell you the correct point at which to wrap a single Sling. That point is around the Bed, (not around the Chuck)!!!!, the lathe can then be balanced by moving the Tailstock in or out. I used an Engine Lifter to lift the Lathe above Bench height and then assembled the Stand to the Lathe before trundling the whole assembly into position. Having said that, I don't know if you are buying the Mach House Stand to go with your Lathe. If you are getting a Lathe with DRO, use a chunk of 100X50 next to the X-Axis Scale to avoid crushing it.

Murray.
.

The mounting points in the 320g manual don't work at all. The method I described is what the supplier uses to lift all their lathes... and it worked for me soo much better..

 

[joco-nz]

Warning - gratuitous weld post!

I've not been too flash at welding end caps on SHS. But I think I might have finally cracked the technique. At least its come out looking half decent. :thumbup:

A little bit of work with the flap disc and this will look really clean.

 

[joco-nz]

The mounting points in the 320g manual don't work at all. The method I described is what the supplier uses to lift all their lathes... and it worked for me soo much better..

Did you use the strap around the chuck as a way of getting balance? I would have thought putting any real load from the lathes weight on the spindle would be "BAD" (tm).

 

[rodw]

Did you use the strap around the chuck as a way of getting balance? I would have thought putting any real load from the lathes weight on the spindle would be "BAD" (tm).

Yes, I am struggling to remember now and did not take photos but sling around the spindle behind the chuck and the other end threaded through the webbing on the bed at the tailstock end somehow.

It will come up crooked and when you put it down, the slings rotate and it finds its balance.

This is the factory lifting position and it was downright scary.

(don't worry the rope is 20,000 lb dyneema)
The guy also gave me a lesson on where to lift my mill.

 

[joco-nz]

Cheers. Reminds me I need to source a lifting strap from somewhere before embarking on moving this thing. Fortunately I will have a little time as I need to build the stand first.

 

[bazmak]

Nice welds

 

[bruedney]

I have a long 4 X 4 snatch strap you can borrow

So jealous can't wait to come around and help when you are ready

I wonder what else I can sell to get closer to ordering my 336

Cheers

Bruce

 

[joco-nz]

I have a long 4 X 4 snatch strap you can borrow

So jealous can't wait to come around and help when you are ready

I wonder what else I can sell to get closer to ordering my 336

Cheers

Bruce

Would be great to be able to borrow the strap when the time comes. Re help - hell yeah. Will be looking for some guidance on what to do and just as importantly not do.

I do need need to source some cutting tooling and been wondering if HSS blanks ground to shape will do the job or if I should also get some indexable tool holders for "hogging" out material quickly.

Also should I pick stuff up from machinery house or do a CTC or other supplier order?

 

[bazmak]

A cheap set of 5 indexable for triangular inserts is a good start
Being a cheapo a did a thread where I made a set of 3 LH,RH,and centre
I bought a box of inserts and its a good start.Also some HSS sections
and the diamond tool holder with HSS or carbide works well
everthing else builds up over time

 

[goldstar31]

I do need need to source some cutting tooling and been wondering if HSS blanks ground to shape will do the job or if I should also get some indexable tool holders for "hogging" out material quickly.

If you recall, I basically answered and offered assistance.

So, for the umpteenth time, might I reiterate my experiences.

The first thing is that hss tooling can be crap and expensive if only to replace rubbish bought through ignorance and penny pinching.

As far as carbides, you probably have bought or will buy a lathe which is too fast in its lowest speed to use hss and consequently you will be left with no alternative than to pile up a collection assorted carbide inserts and holders. To get sufficient decent carbide shapes , isn't cheap.

However, most people have to eventually fall back on hss. Almost all drills are hss and like everything else, wears or breaks. Your choice is either to buy new- and there is some crap about or re-sharpen.

I didn't make the situation- I am merely being honest.

I have a drawer literally breaking from the weight of mostly hss lathe tools.
Oddly, most came from industry where carbides are used but specialist shapes were required. There is a case for hss tooling- especially for one offs in miniature work.

So, like it or not, you are stuck with having to join the dated old dinosaurs who use hss- extensively. You can cheat a bit and use things like old files, broken ball race cages, worn allen keys and cycle spokes. I used broken greenhouse glass to make wartime models!

So one of the first tasks is to make decent tool rests-using new found welding skills and cutting out with your 6 x4 saw. However, tools ground will rarely produce the finish that you want and you have endless choices of which way you 'hone'. Hone, you must.

Always remember that you cannot better the cutting edge on a tool- on lathe or mill.

You aim to reflect your dirty finger nails in the cutting faces of your tools.:hDe:

 

[joco-nz]

Been looking into the lathe lifting some more after pondering the discussion about where to lift from.

Having looked at the manual for the specific model in question I found this image.
Interestingly they do show an attachment to the spindle. However I do think its probably reasonable to assume that is more about making sure that left side does not drop than it is about carrying weight.

 

[imagineering]

One big wide Strop around the Bed will do. Then use the Carriage to balance the load. Worked with the 336D.

Tooling, start here; http://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/L0099

Give Bruce a ring when it's coming and we can both come and give you a hand with the installation if you want.

Murray.

 

[joco-nz]

Reading the manual I found this re the speeds in rpm. From what I can see if I set up in pulley position 'I' then there is easy access to 60, 120, 200, 350, 600 and 1050rpm. Hopefully that range allows something slow enough to effectively use HSS (depending on the material being cut and the feed rate). I seem to have read something somewhere that suggested it was. But perhaps my memory is playing up.
Manual referenced: http://images.machineryhouse.co.nz/products/L141/PDF/L141 - Instruction Manual.pdf


At the moment I have zero stock of old or worn out HSS tools to draw on. Hence my thinking of getting HSS blanks and grinding/honing them into the correct shapes for some cutting tools.

Equally I thought the carbide approach might be useful given it could be/should be used with higher speeds and from what I had read thought it was better at doing more aggressive cuts. But perhaps that is my misinterpretation.

At the end of the day I am quite happy to plug away with HSS and grind/hone my own tools. I see that as part of the fun of this whole process. :thumbup:

 

[rodw]

ady

I wonder what else I can sell to get closer to ordering my 336

Cheers

Bruce

And now I'm jealous as I still don't have room for one!

 

[rodw]

I decided I have too much to learn to bother with also learning to grind HSS tooling.

I would NOT recommend these tools
http://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/L0099
They are Cr@p and you will end up replacing them eventually. You have to buy a set of 10 mixed inserts, they chip easilly and you end up with a collection of never used extras.

Just bite the bullet and buy ISO tooling which is an international standard
http://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/L450

I have these but never use them anymore since I settled on CCMT insert tooling which seems to do a muuuuuch nicer job. One tool lets me both turn and face. There are 2 sizes CCMT06 =6mm side and CCMT09= 9mm side. I made a mistake and ended up with CCMT06 which is fine but CCMT09 will hog into soft stuff better as it has a longer cutting surface. These ar Rhomboid and only have 2 cutting points.

I got them from CCT Tools in Hong Kong and now have the required drawer full of inserts. I find they now last forever but broke a few getting going....

Also, because I machine a lot of plastic and aluminium, I run on the high speed and use 1600 rpm a lot. With carbide inserts, I part off 50mm aluminium at 1600 rpm and coolant no problem at all. I've still got 90 RPM if I need it on this belt.