Setting up my new shop

[Bogstandard]

I am a bit late posting tonight, two reasons, had to take the wife out for our aniversary, went for a nice meal and a couple of bevvies. The other reason was as you might have guessed, something turned up today that made me feel that the self imposed exile is almost over.

A flatbed truck reverses up my drive, with what I hope is an undamaged, fully working version of the mill I ordered, with all the accessories and modifications done.

This joker here, turned up early this morning and gave the shop the once over, and kicked my a**e for suggesting I put the mill where I showed it was going in a previous post.
This is my best friend and mentor, Terry. If it can be drawn, he will most probably be able to make it. This is the man that has kept me from straying for about the last 20 years, and a phone call asking for assistance, will mean he will be there in about 10 mins, no matter what he was doing. The best mate a man could have. But a real task master when it comes to quality. He is the man who tests and inspects a lot of the turbine blades that go into R-R engines on commercial airliners.

Anyway, enough of his life history, he is here to work until he leaves to go to work himself.
Nearly down on my property.

Down onto the ground and stripped of it's protective covering, Tel has to go to work, so it is up to the expert to do his job.

This is Kevin from H&S Engineering, who said he should be able to get this machine into my shop without any stripping down, and also no need to take walls out or roofs off. At a price that was less than a third of the cost of quotes from other machine moving 'specialists'. This was a shot just before he dropped it over the edge of a step, using only a pallet truck with a pallet on it, a bit of dunnage and a few steel pipes, plus an engine hoist to take the weight. Only about 1" clearance either side of the machine.

Down, turned around, lifted up to get a length of ply underneath and pipes put in, ready for the assault on the doorway and it's six inch step up. One major problem was encountered during this installation. The paving slabs that covered my whole garden have a pattern on them that is called Riven pattern. This is like a corrugated effect, but instead of being regular is a random pattern all over, this was a major obstacle. The whole 800+KG could only be moved with a pry bar, one inch at a time.

After nearly two hours of inching along and getting it into position we finally got it thru the door, I forgot to take pics of the actual method, of swinging it in at an angle, moving the table fully one way, then swinging it straight as it was moved forwards. You end up with what is in this pick, just ready to go forwards into the shop.

This is the same position, but from a different angle. Just the back end to go in.

The whole machine is in the shop, sigh of relief. Just a matter of prying and rolling it into position.

This is it's final resting place. Hopefully, I will never have to see it moved again.

Total time, approximately 4 hours, including lunch a few *** and bad back rest breaks. In conclusion. Kevin did what he said could be done, I am a very happy bunny, and not one bit of damage to the machine or my property. In my opinion, a master mover.

Now to the machine itself. The only cleaning that it required was the oil protection on the table, which came off very easily. While Chester UK were doing all the mods, they totally cleaned the machine down and reset everything to a very useable standard, Well done Chester UK. It is now up to myself to fit the third and fourth axis DRO's and fit a power supply for two of the power feeds, Chester couldn't quite be pushed enough to supply that as a freebie.
I did a quickie hookup to check everything out, and all runs perfectly. In fact, the cooling fan in the supply box is noisier than the machine running at full wack.

A good day.

And to John, I hope all the above explains just how well Kevin did, and how happy I was with his service.

A very tired Bogs.

 

[Cedge]

Damn.... it did fit....LOL. Could you move it to the left just a wee bit more....(grin)

Your guy sure earned his pay with that move. Congrats John!!

Steve

 

[Divided He ad]

Good stuff John, 4 hours!!! but at least no damage ;D

Glad to know it's all falling into place.... Now how's your new floor plan panning out?

I bet you can't wait to get it all working now ehh? ;D




Ralph.

 

[Bogstandard]

Steve,

In fact you are spot on, the machine needs to go over by about 3 or 4 degrees to the left, but that will be done on final levelling, after I have fully finished the fitting of extras and commissioning.
As I mentioned about Kevin, a master at his work. Where anyone else would be driving nails into their forehead, he just quietly came up with solutions as we came across them.

Ralph,

The floor plan took a slight shock with the lathe and mill swapping places at the last minute, but everything else that is planned is staying as is.

So that is it basically, until the lathe comes in. For the next few days I will be sorting out the mill, then putting up the necessary racks and shelves to support it (covering up more holes).
I won't be showing any of that as it isn't major workshop work, so this post will now be a bit quiet until nearer the time the lathe comes in. Unless anyone asks a question that needs answering.

John

 

[bentprop]

Congratulations,John.That's a serious looking bit of kit.I wondered if I was going crazy,or you had reversed the photo of the empty space :big:
But I'm glad to see it all panned out.Don't forget a spot for Bandit's bed!
Regards from a cold,miserable NZ.Hans.

 

[Bogstandard]

Hans,

It had me confused at first.
Don't worry, Bandits' shelf is already earmarked.
I would like him to have a least a bit of eye protection when he is in there, but like most animals, anything alien around their head soon ends up on the floor.
A bit of a poser really, as I don't want to ban him while I'm working. At the moment he spends more time in there than I do, I suppose he is checking to see if his bed is ready yet.

John

 

[JohnS]

What a brilliant day and a fantastic result John. Congratulations - it sure is going to look the business in there and I bet Bandit is mighty pleased too, his masters back in business - well almost. Keep the piccies coming.

Oh BTW, what I want to know is, when you yawn does Bandit yawn too ? According to this mornings Daily Mail pets do it all the time.

John S

 

[HS93]

Can you not hang a net in front to stop stray bits going his way. ?

Peter

 

[John S]

When I'm hogging big lumps of alloy on the bridgy it throws them everywhere and it's a pain to clear up afterwards.
Recently I got two pieces of conduit, slid two old shower curtains on the tube, knocked two nails in the roof joists at strategic points and rested one end of the tubes on the ram.
the other ends are supported from the nails by two old fan belts.

The chips hit the curtains, drop to the floor where they form two piles and are easy to clean up.
When done they can be rolled up and stood in a corner, not too good to look at when working but they do the job.

.

 

[DickDastardly40]

Looks good John, ya lucky B*gger.

Got it thro' the door in much the same way as the thread I posted from Practical Machinist then!

Are you going to bolt it down with anchor bolts or leave it free standing once levelled and grout in? If there's a gap underneath when you sweep up, chips will get pushed underneath. I guess there is a drip tray to go on, or to be made of not.

 

[Bogstandard]

Lots of questions and replies to do.

John S,

No he doesn't yawn when I do, but he does have a good trick.

He can do blacksmithing.

When I break wind, he makes a bolt for the door.


Peter,

The problem is, he is such a nosy little devil, he can be almost anywhere in the shop when I am machining. I just might have to make a lightweight pair of glasses up, and quote H&S at him. He is such a bright little thing, he might just understand.


John St,

I thought of a shower curtain, but because of the size of the place it was not feasible. If you look back a few posts, it shows I have a few retractable blinds that will be fixed permanently to the ceiling. I can get more if needed. Also the machine comes with a large semi circular interlocked guard, I am going to see if it is an effective chip blocker before going any further.


Al,

I showed Kevin the pics from that posting, and the info was duly absorbed. The mill was taken in that way. But in all honesty, the way he carried out the manoeuvre, I think he may have done it a few times like that before. But thanks for the link anyway.

I won't be bolting it down, as the floor is a little uneven (not a lot) and so might twist the main castings. So after levelling, it will have silicone mastic piped all around the base.

There are loads of bits to be fitted yet, including a largish drip tray. That is my job for today. Only after all the bits are fitted can it be levelled then have the DRO bits fitted.

Just a little note about the machine. I have given it a real good dose of looking at this morning. Had to change my overalls because of all the drool.

Except for the paint finish, which is slightly matt, this machine is very well built indeed, no shortcuts or suspect bits anywhere. Maybe it is not really aimed at the hobby market, but at the small production setup, hence the much better quality. I will shout out if I do find anything I don't like, but at the moment, I haven't found anything.

John

 

[applescotty]

John,

Perhaps I missed the answer in the posts above (I did read them), but why the change in the mill's position (besides Terry saying so)?

Scott

 

[kvom]

I visited an extremely well-equipped shop (Randolph's) with Cedge/Tim/George Seal last month. Randolph has the base of all of his machines surrounded in Quikcrete to seal them in and prevent anything rolling undrneath. He stated that he levels a new machine and lets it "settle in" for a few weeks before sealing it that way.

Seemed like a good idea.

 

[thezetecman]

How different in size is that mill from a bridge port ? (short bed maybe)

Looks very very nice. Machine moving is an art.

Both my lathe a horizontal mill are in my ownership because they got damaged while being moved. My pack of cast iron welding rods for £2 has come in very handy.

I think you going to make lots of good stuff in your new work shop, I look forward to your next post

 

[Bogstandard]

Scott,

The decision to relocate was for two main reasons, the first one was because of access to my new storage metal prep area. Terry's statement was 'how the hell are you going to get your gut thru that door while carrying a box', I took the point rather well. The other was even though it doesn't look like it, access to the main electrical box will be a lot easier, and seeing I will be doing a bit in there at the moment, why not make it a permanent thing.
Moving it did cause an issue with the lathe, but that will easily be solved by putting a hole thru the wall into the storage area, to allow me to put long bars thru the headstock. It is OK preplanning, but you can never really think of all the issues involved. Problems are there to be solved, and really I will only get one chance at it, so we solve them as we go along.


Kvom,

That is my usual technique, waiting for everything to settle before fixing permanently. I don't like the concrete method, it is a little too permanent for myself. I can guarantee when I do the silicone fix, nothing will move, unless I want it to.

I will be levelling up either later today or tomorrow, then I can tram up the head to get it ready for setting up the vice.


Now just a little writeup to satisfy Zetec's query.

This isn't a tool boast, but a quickie once over to show everyone what this machine is like. If you wanted to go for a larger machine, but not as large as a Bridgeport.
I have only been able to do a quick run around it, the next few months will tell me just how good or bad it really is. At the moment and with what I have seen, it looks very promising.

This machine is generally classed as an 836. This means it has an 8" wide and 36" long table.
It varies from supplier to supplier what features the machine has, mine is the only model of this size from Chester UK, and seems to be to top of the range with regards to features, but of course it is rather more costly than that from other suppliers, especially ones from the States.
The main difference from this model and a Bridgeport seems to be that overall it is physically smaller and lighter, the head doesn't tilt forwards or back and there is no powered quill feed. The first difference in my situation was the main reason I went for this model, the other two features I can definitely live without.


So here are a few features that come as standard, plus a few that I had fitted.

This machine came with a 2 axis DRO as standard, I am upgrading it to 3 axis, and I have already replaced the readout head. The already fitted read heads are very well protected with aluminium covers and seals to prevent the ingress of swarf and fluids.
The main motor is driven by an inverter, so gives fully variable speed up to 2k RPM, fwds and reverse (I have never used reverse in my life, so I don't know what I will use it for).
It has a spindle brake at the top near the drawbar, and the quill is R8.
On the control box is the switch for the built in coolant system.
The machine also comes with a waterproof 12volt light.
As I said before, it doesn't have power quill feed, but it still retains the usual drilling handle, and the selectable quill fine downfeed, it also has the usual micrometer depth stop. This area has the only feature I can find fault with. The fine feed has a plastic handle screwed onto a normal metal 3 spoked design. that will be replaced at the first opportunity.
It has the normal features of a head that can swivel side to side and the turret can move fwds/back on the y axis, plus full turret rotation in the horizontal plane.

Just a few features on this shot. It comes with an interlinked guard system that actually looks like it may work. It is in the flycutting mode that chips seem to go everywhere, and this screen looks like it will be able to be used rather effectively.
I had to fit the neoprene swarf bellows at the front and a catcher sheet at the back of the table. These really look like they are up to the job, unlike some I have seen before, that may have been made out of paper for as much use as they were. Underneath the neoprene protectors are sliding metal plates to prevent swarf entry to any of the slides or leadscrews. This is one area I think they have really got their act together.
The vice on here is one I managed to negotiate an upgrade, and is a standard Vertex 6" vice. The machine also came with a ER32 chuck and collet set.
All the electronics and electrics are housed in a control box on the side of the machine, what my tools and rag are resting on.

This is the other major part of the machine, and I negotiated rather well for a few extras.
The basic machine comes with X axis power feed, I have had fitted at the factory power feeds for the Y and Z as well. This was for personal health reasons, and normally an X axis feed will be sufficient. All the feeds are fitted with electrical limit switches.
Another safety feature of this machine are freewheeling handles on all the power driven leadscrews, not a nice thing to be hit by a knee handle turning at a high RPM.
The machine is fitted with a one shot auto lube system that lubricates all the slideways. There are only two other points on the machine that requires an oilcan to lubricate it.
The last main bit is the cutting oil storage, this is cast into the base of the machine. The used oil is fed by gravity pipes from the table into the large drip tray, where it passes thru two swarf filters and back into the tank to be reused.

I would just like to reiterate about why I went for this machine, I will be using it for production work as well as making little (or big) engines. Normally for what we do on this site, something this large is not really needed. But is still nice to have.

I hope you enjoyed this writeup, and if you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask.

Bogs

 

[Metal Mickey]

High John, nice to see the mill has arrived. I am very interested in your experiences with this mill as its the one I aspire too. One question though, and bear in mind I am a novice........with the head how do you 'tram' it up?

On another issue, I have got plans for a Fairey Huntsman (at 1.5" to the foot) for the castings I had from you.....haven't built a model boat for well over 45 years! Need to make the engine work...if I can get it to work!

Mike

 

[Bogstandard]

Mike,

To do the boat bit first. If I remember rightly, there were Huntsman plans that gave a model of 46.5" long, that is ideal size for a deep 'V' hull for that size and type of engine. For a shallower hull, like the Riva Aquarama, maybe a little larger, say 50" to 54" but keep the build as light as possible by using lightening holes in all the frames.

For tramming, all you are doing is realigning the head to the table, to ensure you are at a perfect right angle. Machines that have a fixed head are not usually 'trammed' because they are supposed to be set up square at the factory, but are very rarely so. It is a matter of using shims in that situation.

Anyway back to this question. Because the head can be swivelled either way from vertical, when you have finished you need to reset the head. I do it with nothing more than a DTI on a right angle bar that is held in the mill collet. Say you have a bar that puts the DTI at 3" or further from the centre axis of the head, you just swing it to one side and feed down until you get a reading off the table face, then without making any adjustments, swing it thru 180 degrees and see if it measures the same on the other side. If it doesn't, adjust the head and try again. Clear as mud he says, so here comes a crap -O - cad sketch.

Bogs

 

[Metal Mickey]

Hello John, thanks for the swift reply. Whats worrying though is that I think I understool that. However i will still be printing out a copy of the engineering drawing you did....... :bow:

 

[kvom]

I learned to tram the head of a Bridgeport that way a couple of weeks ago at my class. While simple in theory, the "trick" is to maintain enough tension on the lock bolts so that you can get a fine adjustment using the worm gear.

I think you can adjust closer to the final position using a machinists square than relying on the degree dial on the machine, prior to checking it with the DI.

 

[CrewCab]

As regards Tramming, John, how long would you expect it to take you it take you to do both X and Y .......... roughly that is : ...... To be honest, I ain't tried it yet but I have visions of being re-discovered in my workshop in the year 2210, still "tramming" ............... so .... please ........ "save " me

kvom, I'd always trust a decent square (or one I'd checked) over pre marked dial's, at least till I'd established a reliable datum.

CC