Selecting a first engine to build.

[Tin Falcon]

What Engines are best for a first build ?
How to select a plan set .
By Tin Falcon​

One of the most popular questions on this board is people wanting recommendations for there first model engine.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.
1) the engine
a ) simple single cylinder design like a wobbler
b)or a McCabe runner.
c) HMEM EZ
d) many too numerous to mention.
2) size or scale :
IMHO 3/8 to 1/2 bore is probably a good starting point.
Tiny engines require more air pressure and are more subject to friction problems.
larger engines require bigger machines and require more material
double the size and the amount of material increases by 8 times.
3) materials :
6061 aluminum can be used for most engine parts. It is a common material easy to machine light weight and relatively inexpensive.
7075 aluminum nicer to machine but generally more expensive. a bit harder than 6061.
12L14 Steel easy to machine the standard of machineability for steel. Tend to rust so need attention or paint. good for fly wheels and crank disks.etc.
Drill rod aka silver steel can be heat treated and hardened good for crank shafts and pins.
360 Brass easy to machine looks great can be used for most parts nice for fly wheels but expensive. in comparison to other metals.
Cast iron good to machine tends to be dirty an powdery needs good housekeeping to protect the operator and machine from the dust. good for cylinders and flywheels can be used for most parts . recommend painting except on running surfaces and fly wheel rims.
Bronze good for cylinders , liners fly wheels bearings etc. Again can be used for most engine parts.
Avoid running fits of like metals. use softer metals on parts that are more easily machined and replaced.
Use known materials mystery metal can cause headaches.

4) Plan sets there are many on the internet both in metric and imperial.
some plans are simply one page with all the info. easy to make a copy and put near the machine in the shop . Other plan sets have a page per part. this can help focus on the one part leaves room for notes and calculations and are generally more readable.
try to select a plan set that makes sense to you. if you do not understand the way a part is designed and made it could be difficult.
Some plan sets come with directions and some do not.

5) variations on a theme and creativity. lets look at the fly wheel for example there are several ways of making a fly wheel. one can start with a casting. or a slice of round bar or a piece of bar or plate stock and machine it from a solid piece . The second way is build up a fly wheel from smaller pieces then weld or solder together. There are many ways to shape the spokes. do not be afraid to use design concepts from more than one plan set on on model. Also a fly wheel can be made from brass , bronze, steel cast iron or aluminum or even plastic.

6) Dimensions, tolerances and fits. There are some dimensions on a model that are critical.Some are not. Also many models will have fractional dimensions. Machine tools and precision measuring instruments measure in thousandths or ten thousands of an inch or in decimal millimeters. so some math and conversion will have to happen.
dimension: the specified size listed on the print expressed in linear length, diameter of a hole or round cross section or the radius of an arc.
tolerance The specified allowable deviation from a given dimension. for example the normal tolerance for the length of a model base given as 4 1/2 inches or 4.5 inches would be +- 1/64 or .015 in in reality the outside dimension of a base,flywheel or engine frame or block is not critical . even the tolerance on a cylinder to piston fit is not critical as long as they fit together well. So if the specified bore is say .5000 + .0005 -.0000 then the piston should be .4990 to .4995 . but what if your half in bore turns out ten thousands over. that is way to much tolerance for a bore diameter. but if you make the piston to fit the bore no problem.
Also if press fitting a shaft into a fly wheel a bit of knurling will snug up a loose fit.
On an oscillator try to keep the layout for the the holes on the engine block as accurate as you can also the location of the crank pin is important as is the size of your air steam ports. these are the critical dimensions that make the valving work. One you learn the important dimensions for the model you can relax if one of the unimportant ones are off a bit from the print.

Hope this helps those looking to start in this great hobby . do not be afraid to ask questions. and experienced guys feel free to post the plans of your first engine. or a link to the vendor as appropriate.



Tin Falcon

Here are some resources :
McCabe Runner plans
LMS Oscillator
John-tom.com Steam plans
Prof. McCabe's web page steam plans
Western Kentucky University wobbler

 

[stevehuckss396]

Is a McAfee Runner a very sick version of the Mcabe Runner? Haahahaha!!!!


Great write up. Would have been a great read when I was trying to get going. I think it's great that you have taken the time to help those who want to get started and are unsure where.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Steve thanks for the thumbs up not sure if I miss typed or spell check attempted to rescue me from my error but in now correctly reads McCabe Runner. one of the first lines of type so can not blame fatigue.
Tin

 

[robcas631]

Highly useful information!

 

[rodw]

Is a McAfee Runner a very sick version of the Mcabe Runner? Haahahaha!!!!

No I think it just caught a virus

The whole purpose of me joining this forum before Christmas was to build the EZ Runner but I have been distracted by a few things. umm.. Lathe bearing going, rebuilding lathe, painting the house, buying a new lathe and mill and I am now still getting all the machinery working properly. I did however, pull out the plans last night to refresh my memory.

Tin, Thanks for reminding me to get on with it!

 

[Tin Falcon]

Another option and a source of inspiration is here:


Steves workshop Gallery UK

This shows how a plan set can be varied and and materials changed from the print.


Steve's Workshop UK simple Ocilator

The one downside I see to this plan set is the format of the plan pages. They are in .jpg rather than PDF but the main problem is they are white on black. So a nice old vintage blueprint feel . But not a printer friendly format.


This engine is of very similar design to the LMS oscillator. The main difference is dimensions metric vs imperial , hardware call out UN vs BA and material call outs. IMHO both sets of prints worth looking at for a first build then you decide what works best for you or take the two and make a design to taste.


Tin

 

[bluejets]

What Engines are best for a first build ?
How to select a plan set .
By Tin Falcon​

One of the most popular questions on this board is people wanting recommendations for there first model engine.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.
1) the engine
a ) simple single cylinder design like a wobbler
b)or a McCabe runner.
c) HMEM EZ
d) many too numerous to mention.
2) size or scale :
IMHO 3/8 to 1/2 bore is probably a good starting point.
Tiny engines require more air pressure and are more subject to friction problems.
larger engines require bigger machines and require more material
double the size and the amount of material increases by 8 times.
3) materials :
6061 aluminum can be used for most engine parts. It is a common material easy to machine light weight and relatively inexpensive.
7075 aluminum nicer to machine but generally more expensive. a bit harder than 6061.
12L14 Steel easy to machine the standard of machineability for steel. Tend to rust so need attention or paint. good for fly wheels and crank disks.etc.
Drill rod aka silver steel can be heat treated and hardened good for crank shafts and pins.
360 Brass easy to machine looks great can be used for most parts nice for fly wheels but expensive. in comparison to other metals.
Cast iron good to machine tends to be dirty an powdery needs good housekeeping to protect the operator and machine from the dust. good for cylinders and flywheels can be used for most parts . recommend painting except on running surfaces and fly wheel rims.
Bronze good for cylinders , liners fly wheels bearings etc. Again can be used for most engine parts.
Avoid running fits of like metals. use softer metals on parts that are more easily machined and replaced.
Use known materials mystery metal can cause headaches.

4) Plan sets there are many on the internet both in metric and imperial.
some plans are simply one page with all the info. easy to make a copy and put near the machine in the shop . Other plan sets have a page per part. this can help focus on the one part leaves room for notes and calculations and are generally more readable.
try to select a plan set that makes sense to you. if you do not understand the way a part is designed and made it could be difficult.
Some plan sets come with directions and some do not.

5) variations on a theme and creativity. lets look at the fly wheel for example there are several ways of making a fly wheel. one can start with a casting. or a slice of round bar or a piece of bar or plate stock and machine it from a solid piece . The second way is build up a fly wheel from smaller pieces then weld or solder together. There are many ways to shape the spokes. do not be afraid to use design concepts from more than one plan set on on model. Also a fly wheel can be made from brass , bronze, steel cast iron or aluminum or even plastic.

6) Dimensions, tolerances and fits. There are some dimensions on a model that are critical.Some are not. Also many models will have fractional dimensions. Machine tools and precision measuring instruments measure in thousandths or ten thousands of an inch or in decimal millimeters. so some math and conversion will have to happen.
dimension: the specified size listed on the print expressed in linear length, diameter of a hole or round cross section or the radius of an arc.
tolerance The specified allowable deviation from a given dimension. for example the normal tolerance for the length of a model base given as 4 1/2 inches or 4.5 inches would be +- 1/64 or .015 in in reality the outside dimension of a base,flywheel or engine frame or block is not critical . even the tolerance on a cylinder to piston fit is not critical as long as they fit together well. So if the specified bore is say .5000 + .0005 -.0000 then the piston should be .4990 to .4995 . but what if your half in bore turns out ten thousands over. that is way to much tolerance for a bore diameter. but if you make the piston to fit the bore no problem.
Also if press fitting a shaft into a fly wheel a bit of knurling will snug up a loose fit.
On an oscillator try to keep the layout for the the holes on the engine block as accurate as you can also the location of the crank pin is important as is the size of your air steam ports. these are the critical dimensions that make the valving work. One you learn the important dimensions for the model you can relax if one of the unimportant ones are off a bit from the print.

Hope this helps those looking to start in this great hobby . do not be afraid to ask questions. and experienced guys feel free to post the plans of your first engine. or a link to the vendor as appropriate.



Tin Falcon

Here are some resources :
McCabe Runner plans
LMS Oscillator
John-tom.com Steam plans
Prof. McCabe's web page steam plans
Western Kentucky University wobbler

There was also the post on my mate's engine that was a school project for year 10 I believe.

https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/simple-ic-engine.14195/

 

[Nibby2226]

Try a Bol Aero 18 diesel, I learned a huge amount from the built and then moved to a Vega V twin on the path to a Howell V4

 

[Desilejf]

What Engines are best for a first build ?
How to select a plan set .
By Tin Falcon​

One of the most popular questions on this board is people wanting recommendations for there first model engine.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.
1) the engine
a ) simple single cylinder design like a wobbler
b)or a McCabe runner.
c) HMEM EZ
d) many too numerous to mention.
2) size or scale :
IMHO 3/8 to 1/2 bore is probably a good starting point.
Tiny engines require more air pressure and are more subject to friction problems.
larger engines require bigger machines and require more material
double the size and the amount of material increases by 8 times.
3) materials :
6061 aluminum can be used for most engine parts. It is a common material easy to machine light weight and relatively inexpensive.
7075 aluminum nicer to machine but generally more expensive. a bit harder than 6061.
12L14 Steel easy to machine the standard of machineability for steel. Tend to rust so need attention or paint. good for fly wheels and crank disks.etc.
Drill rod aka silver steel can be heat treated and hardened good for crank shafts and pins.
360 Brass easy to machine looks great can be used for most parts nice for fly wheels but expensive. in comparison to other metals.
Cast iron good to machine tends to be dirty an powdery needs good housekeeping to protect the operator and machine from the dust. good for cylinders and flywheels can be used for most parts . recommend painting except on running surfaces and fly wheel rims.
Bronze good for cylinders , liners fly wheels bearings etc. Again can be used for most engine parts.
Avoid running fits of like metals. use softer metals on parts that are more easily machined and replaced.
Use known materials mystery metal can cause headaches.

4) Plan sets there are many on the internet both in metric and imperial.
some plans are simply one page with all the info. easy to make a copy and put near the machine in the shop . Other plan sets have a page per part. this can help focus on the one part leaves room for notes and calculations and are generally more readable.
try to select a plan set that makes sense to you. if you do not understand the way a part is designed and made it could be difficult.
Some plan sets come with directions and some do not.

5) variations on a theme and creativity. lets look at the fly wheel for example there are several ways of making a fly wheel. one can start with a casting. or a slice of round bar or a piece of bar or plate stock and machine it from a solid piece . The second way is build up a fly wheel from smaller pieces then weld or solder together. There are many ways to shape the spokes. do not be afraid to use design concepts from more than one plan set on on model. Also a fly wheel can be made from brass , bronze, steel cast iron or aluminum or even plastic.

6) Dimensions, tolerances and fits. There are some dimensions on a model that are critical.Some are not. Also many models will have fractional dimensions. Machine tools and precision measuring instruments measure in thousandths or ten thousands of an inch or in decimal millimeters. so some math and conversion will have to happen.
dimension: the specified size listed on the print expressed in linear length, diameter of a hole or round cross section or the radius of an arc.
tolerance The specified allowable deviation from a given dimension. for example the normal tolerance for the length of a model base given as 4 1/2 inches or 4.5 inches would be +- 1/64 or .015 in in reality the outside dimension of a base,flywheel or engine frame or block is not critical . even the tolerance on a cylinder to piston fit is not critical as long as they fit together well. So if the specified bore is say .5000 + .0005 -.0000 then the piston should be .4990 to .4995 . but what if your half in bore turns out ten thousands over. that is way to much tolerance for a bore diameter. but if you make the piston to fit the bore no problem.
Also if press fitting a shaft into a fly wheel a bit of knurling will snug up a loose fit.
On an oscillator try to keep the layout for the the holes on the engine block as accurate as you can also the location of the crank pin is important as is the size of your air steam ports. these are the critical dimensions that make the valving work. One you learn the important dimensions for the model you can relax if one of the unimportant ones are off a bit from the print.

Hope this helps those looking to start in this great hobby . do not be afraid to ask questions. and experienced guys feel free to post the plans of your first engine. or a link to the vendor as appropriate.



Tin Falcon

Here are some resources :
McCabe Runner plans
LMS Oscillator
John-tom.com Steam plans
Prof. McCabe's web page steam plans
Western Kentucky University wobbler

Good morning, I have a repair that I need done on a steam engine crank shaft. any ideas who might be able to do this. That rod journal is loose

 

[MIKE4444]

What Engines are best for a first build ?
How to select a plan set .
By Tin Falcon​

One of the most popular questions on this board is people wanting recommendations for there first model engine.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.
1) the engine
a ) simple single cylinder design like a wobbler
b)or a McCabe runner.
c) HMEM EZ
d) many too numerous to mention.
2) size or scale :
IMHO 3/8 to 1/2 bore is probably a good starting point.
Tiny engines require more air pressure and are more subject to friction problems.
larger engines require bigger machines and require more material
double the size and the amount of material increases by 8 times.
3) materials :
6061 aluminum can be used for most engine parts. It is a common material easy to machine light weight and relatively inexpensive.
7075 aluminum nicer to machine but generally more expensive. a bit harder than 6061.
12L14 Steel easy to machine the standard of machineability for steel. Tend to rust so need attention or paint. good for fly wheels and crank disks.etc.
Drill rod aka silver steel can be heat treated and hardened good for crank shafts and pins.
360 Brass easy to machine looks great can be used for most parts nice for fly wheels but expensive. in comparison to other metals.
Cast iron good to machine tends to be dirty an powdery needs good housekeeping to protect the operator and machine from the dust. good for cylinders and flywheels can be used for most parts . recommend painting except on running surfaces and fly wheel rims.
Bronze good for cylinders , liners fly wheels bearings etc. Again can be used for most engine parts.
Avoid running fits of like metals. use softer metals on parts that are more easily machined and replaced.
Use known materials mystery metal can cause headaches.

4) Plan sets there are many on the internet both in metric and imperial.
some plans are simply one page with all the info. easy to make a copy and put near the machine in the shop . Other plan sets have a page per part. this can help focus on the one part leaves room for notes and calculations and are generally more readable.
try to select a plan set that makes sense to you. if you do not understand the way a part is designed and made it could be difficult.
Some plan sets come with directions and some do not.

5) variations on a theme and creativity. lets look at the fly wheel for example there are several ways of making a fly wheel. one can start with a casting. or a slice of round bar or a piece of bar or plate stock and machine it from a solid piece . The second way is build up a fly wheel from smaller pieces then weld or solder together. There are many ways to shape the spokes. do not be afraid to use design concepts from more than one plan set on on model. Also a fly wheel can be made from brass , bronze, steel cast iron or aluminum or even plastic.

6) Dimensions, tolerances and fits. There are some dimensions on a model that are critical.Some are not. Also many models will have fractional dimensions. Machine tools and precision measuring instruments measure in thousandths or ten thousands of an inch or in decimal millimeters. so some math and conversion will have to happen.
dimension: the specified size listed on the print expressed in linear length, diameter of a hole or round cross section or the radius of an arc.
tolerance The specified allowable deviation from a given dimension. for example the normal tolerance for the length of a model base given as 4 1/2 inches or 4.5 inches would be +- 1/64 or .015 in in reality the outside dimension of a base,flywheel or engine frame or block is not critical . even the tolerance on a cylinder to piston fit is not critical as long as they fit together well. So if the specified bore is say .5000 + .0005 -.0000 then the piston should be .4990 to .4995 . but what if your half in bore turns out ten thousands over. that is way to much tolerance for a bore diameter. but if you make the piston to fit the bore no problem.
Also if press fitting a shaft into a fly wheel a bit of knurling will snug up a loose fit.
On an oscillator try to keep the layout for the the holes on the engine block as accurate as you can also the location of the crank pin is important as is the size of your air steam ports. these are the critical dimensions that make the valving work. One you learn the important dimensions for the model you can relax if one of the unimportant ones are off a bit from the print.

Hope this helps those looking to start in this great hobby . do not be afraid to ask questions. and experienced guys feel free to post the plans of your first engine. or a link to the vendor as appropriate.



Tin Falcon

Here are some resources :
McCabe Runner plans
LMS Oscillator
John-tom.com Steam plans
Prof. McCabe's web page steam plans
Western Kentucky University wobbler

Hi i am after a small Steam Traction Engine, and Rail Planes , willing to pay, model to be around , 8 inch does not matter if drawings are in MM or Inch will scale to suit , Just need a simple engine to start of with. , many thanks MICHAEL
Please email [email protected]

 

[WisJim]

As someone who is finally going to start on his first engine project, I was pleased to find this thread. It answers some of my questions and makes me feel a bit better about getting started. It's still going to be awhile as my new shop isn't quite done and then I will have to move my lathe, mill, and other tools.

 

[Longboy]

Yes, In continuing the legacy of the hobby for newbies, Falcon has answered the the number 1 question on, "how do I start out"? A thoughtful layout on how to proceed. Read a lot, acquire build materials and understand what is best for what areas, the importance of tolerances in dynamic modeling, reviewing plans available to what attracts the builder and investing in the machinery and tooling to make it so.
Most of us have some back round in machine tools as a job/trade and a few are so green but enamored with model engines they take the time to learn machine tools to do such. Then somewhere down the line you get enough model skill behind you that you can wildcat and scratch build your own unique efforts to near museum qualities. Good Luk WisJim.....this engine making can really get inside of you!

 

[Skipper]

What Engines are best for a first build ?
How to select a plan set .
By Tin Falcon​

One of the most popular questions on this board is people wanting recommendations for there first model engine.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.
1) the engine
a ) simple single cylinder design like a wobbler
b)or a McCabe runner.
c) HMEM EZ
d) many too numerous to mention.
2) size or scale :
IMHO 3/8 to 1/2 bore is probably a good starting point.
Tiny engines require more air pressure and are more subject to friction problems.
larger engines require bigger machines and require more material
double the size and the amount of material increases by 8 times.
3) materials :
6061 aluminum can be used for most engine parts. It is a common material easy to machine light weight and relatively inexpensive.
7075 aluminum nicer to machine but generally more expensive. a bit harder than 6061.
12L14 Steel easy to machine the standard of machineability for steel. Tend to rust so need attention or paint. good for fly wheels and crank disks.etc.
Drill rod aka silver steel can be heat treated and hardened good for crank shafts and pins.
360 Brass easy to machine looks great can be used for most parts nice for fly wheels but expensive. in comparison to other metals.
Cast iron good to machine tends to be dirty an powdery needs good housekeeping to protect the operator and machine from the dust. good for cylinders and flywheels can be used for most parts . recommend painting except on running surfaces and fly wheel rims.
Bronze good for cylinders , liners fly wheels bearings etc. Again can be used for most engine parts.
Avoid running fits of like metals. use softer metals on parts that are more easily machined and replaced.
Use known materials mystery metal can cause headaches.

4) Plan sets there are many on the internet both in metric and imperial.
some plans are simply one page with all the info. easy to make a copy and put near the machine in the shop . Other plan sets have a page per part. this can help focus on the one part leaves room for notes and calculations and are generally more readable.
try to select a plan set that makes sense to you. if you do not understand the way a part is designed and made it could be difficult.
Some plan sets come with directions and some do not.

5) variations on a theme and creativity. lets look at the fly wheel for example there are several ways of making a fly wheel. one can start with a casting. or a slice of round bar or a piece of bar or plate stock and machine it from a solid piece . The second way is build up a fly wheel from smaller pieces then weld or solder together. There are many ways to shape the spokes. do not be afraid to use design concepts from more than one plan set on on model. Also a fly wheel can be made from brass , bronze, steel cast iron or aluminum or even plastic.

6) Dimensions, tolerances and fits. There are some dimensions on a model that are critical.Some are not. Also many models will have fractional dimensions. Machine tools and precision measuring instruments measure in thousandths or ten thousands of an inch or in decimal millimeters. so some math and conversion will have to happen.
dimension: the specified size listed on the print expressed in linear length, diameter of a hole or round cross section or the radius of an arc.
tolerance The specified allowable deviation from a given dimension. for example the normal tolerance for the length of a model base given as 4 1/2 inches or 4.5 inches would be +- 1/64 or .015 in in reality the outside dimension of a base,flywheel or engine frame or block is not critical . even the tolerance on a cylinder to piston fit is not critical as long as they fit together well. So if the specified bore is say .5000 + .0005 -.0000 then the piston should be .4990 to .4995 . but what if your half in bore turns out ten thousands over. that is way to much tolerance for a bore diameter. but if you make the piston to fit the bore no problem.
Also if press fitting a shaft into a fly wheel a bit of knurling will snug up a loose fit.
On an oscillator try to keep the layout for the the holes on the engine block as accurate as you can also the location of the crank pin is important as is the size of your air steam ports. these are the critical dimensions that make the valving work. One you learn the important dimensions for the model you can relax if one of the unimportant ones are off a bit from the print.

Hope this helps those looking to start in this great hobby . do not be afraid to ask questions. and experienced guys feel free to post the plans of your first engine. or a link to the vendor as appropriate.



Tin Falcon

Here are some resources :
McCabe Runner plans
LMS Oscillator
John-tom.com Steam plans
Prof. McCabe's web page steam plans
Western Kentucky University wobbler

Wher can I get some cast iron with a lot of grafite?
skipper

 

[Eccentric]

I buy my Cast Iron at Grainger.

 

[almega]

If you use Zoro rather than Grainger you can save some money. BTW, Grainger owns Zoro. For example a 1-1/4" dia x 12" piece of cast iron at Grainger is $22.44 while at Zoro the same item is $18.77.

 

[stevehuckss396]

McMaster Carr gets 17 bucks for the same bar and only charges for actual shipping and material cost. Bad part is I dont know what shipping costs until it's in the mail. I do have to admit that i am often happy with how little it costs.

 

[almega]

Freight from McMaster is a killer at times. I just bought 10 Viton o-rings, which cost $4.25 and when shipped my total was $11.81. They shipped via UPS and they could have sent them for a buck through the mail.

 

[almega]

If a group or a club got together to make a purchase, Online Metals has a 3-pack of G2 Dura Bar 1-1/2" D x 72" for $172.91. That is about $9.61 per foot. They only sell this size in 3-packs, and other sizes are also available in differing package quantities.
https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/cast-iron-round-bar-g2-as-cast

 

[Richard Hed]

If a group or a club got together to make a purchase, Online Metals has a 3-pack of G2 Dura Bar 1-1/2" D x 72" for $172.91. That is about $9.61 per foot. They only sell this size in 3-packs, and other sizes are also available in differing package quantities.
https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/cast-iron-round-bar-g2-as-cast

I thot I had seen something cheaper, but on a search found that this is about 1/3 the best price I could find elsewhere. Unfortunately, If you don't want the large amount, you will over pay for the little bit you want. Don't forget, hyou will proably want more later. so, if you can go in with someone else, as Almega suggests, you will be doing good. I am interested in some 2" which comes in a two pack (I thimpfk) which is total of 12 feets ending up at about 25$/ft. I don't know where it ships from nor the shipping cost.

Whoa, I just noticed that 2-1/4" is actually cheaper than 2". ???

 

[almega]

They ship from Seattle, Los Angeles, Dallas, Atlanta, Wallingford and Toledo. I have the good fortune of living within 15 minutes of the Toledo facility and pick up my materials to avoid the shipping. I usually get them same day or next day.