Printing airlock parts for my dust collector

[ddmckee54]

Well, regarding this diversion down the rabbit hole...

As far as I know I haven't been struck by any brilliant ideas yet regarding the blast gate re-design. I'm hoping inspiration will strike over the weekend? How hard can it be, it's just something that covers a hole after all... If there are no Euraka moments by Sunday, then I'll just fumble along with Blast Gates ver1-Mk1. Something sorta crappy is better than nothing at all - anything to end this work-stoppage and get the project moving again.

 

[awake]

Hmmmmmmm - - - you're not 'enjoying' this rabbit hole?

I thought there were a few fun moments.

(Between the absolutely goofy weather and a bunch of other 'goofy' stuff - - - it was good to find some chuckles that weren't the rueful kind! But I feed the digression - - - - down boy down boy - - - bad boy!!! (LOL))

Always! But I was trying to be respectful of the original topic. It would really "suck" if we didn't return to the topic of dust collection!

 

[awake]

Well, regarding this diversion down the rabbit hole...

As far as I know I haven't been struck by any brilliant ideas yet regarding the blast gate re-design. I'm hoping inspiration will strike over the weekend? How hard can it be, it's just something that covers a hole after all... If there are no Euraka moments by Sunday, then I'll just fumble along with Blast Gates ver1-Mk1. Something sorta crappy is better than nothing at all - anything to end this work-stoppage and get the project moving again.

I have given some thought to it, but also no brilliant insights. It seems to me to be a tradeoff between sealing and ease of movement. The furthest I've gotten in my thinking is whether the gate could have tapered sides, fitting into rubber (or TPU) seals - the tapered sides would let it not have the friction of the TPU until it seats. But that still leaves one side unsealed.

 

[ajoeiam]

I have given some thought to it, but also no brilliant insights. It seems to me to be a tradeoff between sealing and ease of movement. The furthest I've gotten in my thinking is whether the gate could have tapered sides, fitting into rubber (or TPU) seals - the tapered sides would let it not have the friction of the TPU until it seats. But that still leaves one side unsealed.

Well - - - - I need some pics so I can understand the item and its needs.
Then - - - what works well and what doesn't work well.
Then - - - what has been tried.
Then - - - now there would be enough information that I think we could help our buddy!

So - - - to the OP - - - - your turn.

(I need the info because although I think I understand what's going on that's NOT a good starting point to come up with a fix.
Now - - - if we can come up with something good - - - then maybe this list is showing it real value. (Not that I don't like those pictures of that wonderful stuff some guys are making!!!!))

 

[awake]

Here's the basic idea of a DC blast gate: Rockler 4'' StableGate™ Blast Gate

 

[ddmckee54]

If you look back to Post #70, in the bottom of the picture just to the right of center, you will see one of the old blast gates. That image is the only one I've got now. Here's a cropped picture of the slidegate:

The original slidegates were a collection of scraps - 1/8" Masonite for the slide, 3/8" plywood for the top and bottom, and a 4" Snaploc connector that had been split, with each half being glued and nailed into the plywood. You can see the metal connector in the picture. The connector allowed for a relatively easy connection of the blast gate into the duct.

My biggest gripe with these slides was, and still is, that they aren't self cleaning. Anything that is in front of the slide as it closes has no place to go and eventually starts filling up the slot - keeping the slide from closing completely. The simple answer is NOT to block off the back of the slide opening. These gates have the back closed. The slide itself doesn't need to be airtight, you just don't want it to leak too much. I thought at the time that opening in the back would be TOO much. Looking at the numbers, that opening will be about 1/2-3/4 of a square inch. This is only about 5% of the slide opening. OK, you talked me into it. The slide, when closed, will go straight through the gate and be flush with the back. This will self-clean the slot every time the slide is used.

My next biggest gripe was that damned 4" connector, getting it glued and nailed into the plywood was not an easy task. Maybe I can 3D print a ring with about a 10mm square cross-section? I could glue and screw the ring to the plywood, then glue and screw the connector to the ring? That MIGHT be easier than trying to nail into 3/8" plywood inside of a 3" or 4" opening. When I made these gates years ago, I nailed the connectors in place first then ran a bead of polyurethane glue around the connector on the outside. But it NEVER was a very substantial connection. I need something that's easier and more better, I've got to make at least three 4" blast gates and three 3" blast gates.

 

[ajoeiam]

If you look back to Post #70, in the bottom of the picture just to the right of center, you will see one of the old blast gates. That image is the only one I've got now. Here's a cropped picture of the slidegate:
View attachment 134010
The original slidegates were a collection of scraps - 1/8" Masonite for the slide, 3/8" plywood for the top and bottom, and a 4" Snaploc connector that had been split, with each half being glued and nailed into the plywood. You can see the metal connector in the picture. The connector allowed for a relatively easy connection of the blast gate into the duct.

My biggest gripe with these slides was, and still is, that they aren't self cleaning. Anything that is in front of the slide as it closes has no place to go and eventually starts filling up the slot - keeping the slide from closing completely. The simple answer is NOT to block off the back of the slide opening. These gates have the back closed. The slide itself doesn't need to be airtight, you just don't want it to leak too much. I thought at the time that opening in the back would be TOO much. Looking at the numbers, that opening will be about 1/2-3/4 of a square inch. This is only about 5% of the slide opening. OK, you talked me into it. The slide, when closed, will go straight through the gate and be flush with the back. This will self-clean the slot every time the slide is used.

My next biggest gripe was that damned 4" connector, getting it glued and nailed into the plywood was not an easy task. Maybe I can 3D print a ring with about a 10mm square cross-section? I could glue and screw the ring to the plywood, then glue and screw the connector to the ring? That MIGHT be easier than trying to nail into 3/8" plywood inside of a 3" or 4" opening. When I made these gates years ago, I nailed the connectors in place first then ran a bead of polyurethane glue around the connector on the outside. But it NEVER was a very substantial connection. I need something that's easier and more better, I've got to make at least three 4" blast gates and three 3" blast gates.

OK
#1 not self cleaning
what is the orientation of the slide?
duct is vertical/horizontal - - - what?

#2 not easy to attach ducting
one of the things I like about metals (grin welding makes for a fairly simple solution and lots of options)
how often are these gates removed from the ducting?
(for cleaning and/or whatever?

 

[ddmckee54]

ajoeiam:

In answer to your questions:
1) All the ducting is vertical through the slide. This keeps the slides in a horizontal position and also means that some type of a lock to hold the slide in position is not required - usually.
2) With luck, the gates will NOT have to be removed. (But they CAN be removed if required.)

Progress update - IT'S ALIVE!!!!
I got all 3 of the 4" blast gates made, and installed, over the weekend. This crappy, slightly shaky photo is a shot of the radial arm saw in it's new, and hopefully more or less permanent home. More importantly, it also shows two out of the three 4" blast gates. One blast gate will be for the radial arm saw, and the other will be for a removable connection that will be shared by the table saw, and an as yet to be completed sanding/grinding station.

Both ends of the slide on the blast gate are open, and the blast gate slides are long enough that when fully closed they protrude about 1/4". (That's about 6mm for you poor Imperially challanged folk on the other side of the pond.) This will push any schmootz that accumulates in the slot for the slide out the other end, and TAA-DAA they're self-cleaning. The top of the blast gate is made up out of 6mm plywood, with a 3D printed ring that is glued and screwed to the plywood. It's attached to the 4" duct by #6 sheeet metal screws and the joint is then sealed with the aluminum tape you see in the picture. The bottom of the blast gate is a mirror image of the top, that's the 3D printed red ring that you see in the picture. A pair of 3mm plywood spacers are glued to the blast gate bottom only, and are the guides/spacers for the slide. The slides themselves are made out of 2mm acrylic. (It said it was 0.080", but they're not fooling me!) The top and the bottom of the blast gates are bolted together with 6-32 machine screws, washers, and Nylock nuts. That way, if I ever DO need to clean the blast gate, I can drop the bottom half of the gate while the top half remains firmly attached to the duct - Ezee-Peezee.

Laying on top of the radial arm saw's table are several Plano storage containers. Them and several of their distant cousins made by other companies will old the various, screws, nails, bolts, and other assorted Bits and Bob that I have accumulated over the years. I'm building a rack to hold these containers in a somewhat organized fashion. Whille I was cutting some of the parts for this rack, and blowing sawdust all over the shop as usual, I realized that I have a MOSTLY functional dust collection system now. It's not DONE, but it could be used - NOW. That led to this little bit of Redneck Injunearring.

While the 4" blast gates are built and installed, the 3" blast gates are still just a gleam in someone's eye. BUT.... A little blue painter's tape to cover the unused holes, a shop vac hose shoved in the remaining hole, and a rag to stop up the majority of the remaining leak and... Wait for it!

VIOLA, you've got a dust collection connection to the table saw. Oh sure, the blade still throws some dust around, but for now this gets the majority of the schmootz off the floor and into the dust collector.

See, I TOLD you it works. This was the result of turning the airlock's hand crank 5-10 revs to empty the cyclone after I was done with the saw. Just the sawdust, ignore the other crap in the bottom of the bin.

The system still has a LONNNNGGG way to go before it is complete:
1) Build and install the 3" blast gates
2) Install the permanent connections to the drill press, bandsaw, radial arm saw, yadda-yadda-yadda
3) Imagineer the final filter for the dust collector blower
4) Build and install the automatic controls for the dust collector airlock
But... The system is usable now, and I'm getting close enough to the end of the tunnel that I'm PRETTY sure the light isn't just another train.

Don

 

[ajoeiam]

ajoeiam:

In answer to your questions:
1) All the ducting is vertical through the slide. This keeps the slides in a horizontal position and also means that some type of a lock to hold the slide in position is not required - usually.
2) With luck, the gates will NOT have to be removed. (But they CAN be removed if required.)

Progress update - IT'S ALIVE!!!!
I got all 3 of the 4" blast gates made, and installed, over the weekend. This crappy, slightly shaky photo is a shot of the radial arm saw in it's new, and hopefully more or less permanent home. More importantly, it also shows two out of the three 4" blast gates. One blast gate will be for the radial arm saw, and the other will be for a removable connection that will be shared by the table saw, and an as yet to be completed sanding/grinding station.

Both ends of the slide on the blast gate are open, and the blast gate slides are long enough that when fully closed they protrude about 1/4". (That's about 6mm for you poor Imperially challanged folk on the other side of the pond.) This will push any schmootz that accumulates in the slot for the slide out the other end, and TAA-DAA they're self-cleaning. The top of the blast gate is made up out of 6mm plywood, with a 3D printed ring that is glued and screwed to the plywood. It's attached to the 4" duct by #6 sheeet metal screws and the joint is then sealed with the aluminum tape you see in the picture. The bottom of the blast gate is a mirror image of the top, that's the 3D printed red ring that you see in the picture. A pair of 3mm plywood spacers are glued to the blast gate bottom only, and are the guides/spacers for the slide. The slides themselves are made out of 2mm acrylic. (It said it was 0.080", but they're not fooling me!) The top and the bottom of the blast gates are bolted together with 6-32 machine screws, washers, and Nylock nuts. That way, if I ever DO need to clean the blast gate, I can drop the bottom half of the gate while the top half remains firmly attached to the duct - Ezee-Peezee.

snip

See, I TOLD you it works. This was the result of turning the airlock's hand crank 5-10 revs to empty the cyclone after I was done with the saw. Just the sawdust, ignore the other crap in the bottom of the bin.

The system still has a LONNNNGGG way to go before it is complete:
1) Build and install the 3" blast gates
2) Install the permanent connections to the drill press, bandsaw, radial arm saw, yadda-yadda-yadda
3) Imagineer the final filter for the dust collector blower
4) Build and install the automatic controls for the dust collector airlock
But... The system is usable now, and I'm getting close enough to the end of the tunnel that I'm PRETTY sure the light isn't just another train.

Don

OK - - - I'm now quite confused.
You have 4" gates that you are reporting work quite well.
Earlier you wanted to create 3" gates adn expressed some concerns about (IIRC) 3 possible issues.

Why don't you just make the 3" gates like the 4" ones?
They work (your report) - - - don't change what works - - - perfect is the enemy of good - - - I don't like using 'good enough' as that seems to imply barely so which really isn't what I got from your above report.

Just a $0.005 worth from a noisy idjit.

 

[ddmckee54]

Ajoeiam:

I just made these 4" blast gates over the weekend. A picture of the original design is shown in Post #86. The previous incarnation of the 4" blast gates were not open on both ends, the tops/bottoms of those blast gates were not removable, the connection of the blast gate to the duct was dicey at best, and the slides were made of 1/8"masonite. The guides were 1/8" masonite too, which led to a lot of sanding to get the slides to work properly.

I needed 3 of the 4" blast gates, which are now built and installed, but I also still need 3 of the 3" blast gates. I have every intention of making the 3" blast gates to be the irritating little brother of the 4" blast gates. You know, the little brother that copies everything the older brother does? It's just that SOMEBODY hasn't designed them yet - maybe after I get this fastener storage rack done. Then, MAYBE I'll actually have some usable bench space to work on.

Don

 

[awake]

Don, I have found that one of the major drawbacks of 3d printing is that, no matter what I do, the printer doesn't seem to be able to understand my desires and print what I want. It seems to insist on me spending time building up the model - go figure!

Sigh. All this time I thought I was getting a Star Trek replicator ...

 

[ddmckee54]

Yeah, but somebody had to program the replicators too, otherwise you'd probably just jet a steaming pile of ... GOO?

Way back when, I was printing a replacement grill for the RC tracked skid-steer project that I was working on. The grill came out a 1-2 mm too long. I re-drew the model, saved it, and reprinted it, still too long. I went through several iterations of this before I realized that just because I has saved the 3D CAD file, that DIDN'T mean that I had saved a new STL file for the slicer to work with. By the time I did figure out what was going on and printed out a new grill, it was 4-5 mm too short. I think there are still blood stains on the wall from me banging my head against it.

That reminds me, I'll need to re-visit that back burner project one of these days. (It's so far back, I don't think it can even SEE the stove anymore.) I've had a few ideas for that project that need looking into, space was rather limited and I didn't like the way things were shaping up.

 

[ajoeiam]

Yeah, but somebody had to program the replicators too, otherwise you'd probably just jet a steaming pile of ... GOO?

Way back when, I was printing a replacement grill for the RC tracked skid-steer project that I was working on. The grill came out a 1-2 mm too long. I re-drew the model, saved it, and reprinted it, still too long. I went through several iterations of this before I realized that just because I has saved the 3D CAD file, that DIDN'T mean that I had saved a new STL file for the slicer to work with. By the time I did figure out what was going on and printed out a new grill, it was 4-5 mm too short. I think there are still blood stains on the wall from me banging my head against it.

That reminds me, I'll need to re-visit that back burner project one of these days. (It's so far back, I don't think it can even SEE the stove anymore.) I've had a few ideas for that project that need looking into, space was rather limited and I didn't like the way things were shaping up.

I'm sorry - - - - but this response quite had me rotflmho - - - - thank you.

(some humor that reminds me of my own foibles (often far worse I think that those being depicted) makes the rough weather and the goofy world situation just a little dimmer!!!)

 

[awake]

Yes, made me laugh (and wince in memory of similar feats of madness) as well!

 

[ddmckee54]

OK, some progress on the fastener rack was made last night.

This is the rack that, so far, contains the collections of pan-head machine screws, flat-head machine screws, sheet-metal screws, dry-wall screws, wall anchors, and pop-rivets. I'll probably add another 3-4 shelves for the just-in-case stuff. The LH side of this rack is screwed to the floor joist and has several wall anchors, but I don't want to put too much weight on this rack. I've got to get some labels on these cases too. When I had them stacked on the various horizontal surfaces I could just look through the lid to see what was in the case - not so much anymore without taking them off the shelf.

Once I get done with the top half, I'll start on the heavier duty bottom half which will go right below it:

It will be slightly wider, since those cases are a little bigger, and both sides of this guy will be sitting on the floor as well as being anchored to the wall. 'Cause this guy will hold the nuts, bolts, and washers from 1/4-20's to 1/2-13's. The LH side will be particle board again, just because I've got some laying around, but the LH side will also have a 2x4 leg attached to the particle board. The RH side will be the existing 2x6, maybe another 2x4 will be screwed onto the front of that. (I'll have to check and see how much 6" screws will set me back brefore I can Yay or Nay to that idea.) Also shown in this picture is the treacherous step ladder, you know the one that ran away while I was on it?

For some reason, and I haven't figured it out yet, but as I build this rack higher and get closer to the ceiling - the more my head sweats. I suspect that these tubes MIGHT have something to do with it though. If you really need something to give some scale to the picture, there's 4" verticall between the shelves.

I've got to find the buckets of 1/2" PEX clips that I've got stashed somewhere. The tubes on the LH side at the top are obviously getting out of control - we can't have THAT now can we. I suspect that the clips are in the unheated room under the front porch. I'll have to brave the temperature and go check tonight. (That or I just pitched them years ago, in which case I'll need to get some more.)

Don

 

[awake]

Looks like the control room in a 1950's rocket - tubes and gauges and valves, oh my!

 

[ddmckee54]

Nope, just the distribution system for my under floor heating system. Toasty tooties in the winter are sooooo nice.

 

[awake]

Well, shoot. First we dismantle my dreams of a Star Trek replicator, and now of my Flash Gordon space rocket ...

 

[ddmckee54]

I got a litle more done on the fastener rack over the weekend.

I'm calling this fastener rack done - for now. The fasteners I use the most are in this rack and they are actually labeled - now. The heavier containers live on the bottom half of the rack and the smaller, lighter stuff lives on top. The containers on the top 2 shelves are empties waiting to be filled with something, as are 2 shelves at the very bottom.

I even whomped up a paper towel holder/dispenser. So there'll no more searching every horizontal surface looking for the roll of towels.

I also got the unruly PEX tubing a little more under control. At least until my OCD gets the better of me, I've got the system down/drained, and I straighten up that criss-crossed mess in the corner. I've lived with it like this for 14 years now, I think I survive with it like this for a little longer. The original plan was to bolt a cover over the mess, which will probably still done - sooner or later.

I discovered that it's not a good idea the use the dust collector for an extended period without turning the airlock. Choke-feeding this airlock is NOT a good idea. It jammed up on me and I had to drop the airlock and clean it out - TWICE. No doubt about it, making the airlock go roundy-round without ME turning the crank is the next big thing on the agenda. Actually the next thing on the agenda is to get rid of the Redneck Engineering in the dust collector connection to the tablesaw. Seemed like everytime I moved the tablesaw the cobbled up hose connection fell apart - I 3D printed that hose adapter last night.

My order of 6-32 flathead machine screws arrived today, so after I get the airlock motor running I can get back to working on the 3" blastgates. Then it's just a matter of making the permanent connections to the machines and building/installing the final filter, and the dust collection system will be done enough for extended usage.

Don

 

[ajoeiam]

I got a litle more done on the fastener rack over the weekend.
View attachment 134396


I also got the unruly PEX tubing a little more under control. At least until my OCD gets the better of me, I've got the system down/drained, and I straighten up that criss-crossed mess in the corner. I've lived with it like this for 14 years now, I think I survive with it like this for a little longer. The original plan was to bolt a cover over the mess, which will probably still done - sooner or later.

snip

I'd like to suggest that your pex piping really isn't a 'mess'. As it disturbs you I would just cover it - - - carefully mind you - - - don't want issues with the heating
(I have -41C with the windchill outside this morning so o o I would NOT even dream of compromising anything to do with heating!!!!!!!!!!!).

All these organized shops is helping me work at getting my various work spaces better organized - - - I don't know whether to thank you guys or swear at you - - - LOL!! (lots of LOL actually!!)