Let's talk cutter grinders

[ajoeiam]

Hello,

I really like that it seems to be fun and become a nice discussion for everyone.

During the visit to the vendor of the Japanese machine, he happens to be only 2 km away from my place, I trapped my self into an impulse buy. I am not 100% sure if I did the right thing.

View attachment 126262The spindle is mounted on a vertical column, the spindle can be moved up and down, and from left to right.
The workpiece holding head can be adjusted in some angles, but obviously not tilted up or down.
View attachment 126263
The head can be tilted so that the work holding spindle and the grinding spindle are parallel, or more than 90°.
View attachment 126264
For following the flutes, it has something similar to a lathe taper attachment.
View attachment 126265
The vertical column with the spindle can be rotated around the vertical axis a little in both directions.

A hand wheel is broken. I have to fix it.
View attachment 126266
The machine runs on Linar rails on most moving axis. But all the covers are damaged. The seller promised me they would not cost too much, he wants to hook me up with supplier of those.
View attachment 126267
Accessories:

I was advised here in some posts to look for accessories. And as I feared the machine comes with "one" as in "1" collet. I did not even care to check its size. I think the seller bought it to be able to demonstrate the machine, the collet nut was brand new and srewed on very smooth. It uses C10 collets which limits clamping range from 2.4 to 10 mm diameter. These Collets seem to be Japanese style milling chuck collets. I will have to source them somewhere. ( I was told it is easy, I was not told it is cheap). I think practically the working range of the collets covers 85% of what I use. Only advantage is that they have a much better runout spec than ER collets.

The machine uses tiny tapered grinding wheel hubs. It comes with a few of those hubs. Grinding wheels inside diameter is 31.75, seems to be a common size.

The motor is a 3-phase 200 W motor that looks like it can run all day long, without problem. ( just from the looks)
View attachment 126268

The machine was not cheap, but I managed to get 15% off the first asking price, plus free shipping. They will bring the 300 kg heavy beast with a truck with boom crane and unload it, so I do not have to do any difficult moving.

I saw the many home made solutions and at some point I will have another look into this I think it is a very interesting project to make one, even if it is only selfserving.

Norman sugested the lathe tool grinding jig, a thing that this machine is not really capable of.


I think I will follow that route at some point making a lathe tool grinding aid.



I must admit there is no such excuse available for me. I think I can buy all cutters somewhere, if not exotic size or spec within one workday.
If exotic size or spec, it is a matter of price quantity and waiting time.

The complete thing is nonsense in economical categories. Comparable to Aluminium wheels for the car. Something people (me) think they need to have, but is not neccesary.

I will see what I will do with it. (Doorstop not an option, it is too heavy to move to the door)

Greetings Timo

I would vehemently disagree with your assessment that this was a 'nonsense in economical categories' purchase.
You very much like making things in your shop - - - - this tool should be a great assist in those endeavors!

(Would suggest that you repair the broken way bellows pdq to keep the tool working well for a very long time!!! - - - -
Great buy!!!!!!!!!)

 

[timo_gross]

Mass, versatility, presumably precision and some not too serious repairs. I love it! On covers: my antique grinder tried to rely on solid metal moving covers. From the local sailmaker I got a length of tight sailcover cloth. I cut rectangles from it and after set-up I attach those with some magnets. No expense, quick and effective.

It is basically in working condition. Not a show piece, but ready to go, provided the right grinding wheels are there. Seller said he knows a professional company making this type covers, lets see what it costs.

Greetings Timo

 

[Brian Hutchings]

My T&C Grinder is a Union made by Harrisons. It has beem made into a single phase machine (not by me) by the substitution of a double ended grinder motor but I may reconvert it back to 3 ph.
It came with all the accessories apart from 5C collets but did come with a holder to take ER32 collets.
I have not used it much, I wait until about a dozen tools need resharpening and then have a blitz.
I have not used a T&C cutter grinder in industry so class myself as a beginner and am grateful for others sharing their knowledge on sites like this.
Brian

 

[goldstar31]

No hole in the bucket?

No idea but the French have something like 'The Carthorse Julie'

Then there is Hector Berlioz;a Syphonie Fantatastique and the 'March to the Scaffold 'bit
It issomething to do with an old hag knitting and that unappreciated Englisg expression 'Heads will roll1'

And with her head tucked underneath her arm--- she walks the Bloody Tower

 

[timo_gross]

My T&C Grinder is a Union made by Harrisons. It has beem made into a single phase machine (not by me) by the substitution of a double ended grinder motor but I may reconvert it back to 3 ph.
It came with all the accessories apart from 5C collets but did come with a holder to take ER32 collets.
I have not used it much, I wait until about a dozen tools need resharpening and then have a blitz.
I have not used a T&C cutter grinder in industry so class myself as a beginner and am grateful for others sharing their knowledge on sites like this.
Brian

View attachment 126271

Do you have another work holding head for it? Do you put that head then on the magnet? Or take the magnet of?

Some time ago I bought an inverter to see how it works it was actually quite doable, makes 3-Phase out of single phase, adds speed control, sometimes adds input for E-stop. I prefer 2nd hand brand ones over new Chinese (about same price), the documentation is so much easier to understand that set up is more easy. Getting an understandable explanation for the many parameters helps.

Greetings Timo

 

[timo_gross]

No idea but the French have something like 'The Carthorse Julie'

Then there is Hector Berlioz;a Syphonie Fantatastique and the 'March to the Scaffold 'bit
It issomething to do with an old hag knitting and that unappreciated Englisg expression 'Heads will roll1'

And with her head tucked underneath her arm--- she walks the Bloody Tower

This side of the discussion scares me.. , people tell me that I will not die in my sleep (I think they refer to work safety).
Stay safe, do not leave your chain saw running unattended.
Always check power switch on the axe, before you plug it in.

Greetings Timo

 

[goldstar31]

This side of the discussion scares me.. , people tell me that I will not die in my sleep (I think they refer to work safety).
Stay safe, do not leave your chain saw running unattended.
Always check power switch on the axe, before you plug it in.

Greetings Timo

I'm dying to tell a joke about a pathologist.

 

[Brian Hutchings]

Do you have another work holding head for it? Do you put that head then on the magnet? Or take the magnet of?

Some time ago I bought an inverter to see how it works it was actually quite doable, makes 3-Phase out of single phase, adds speed control, sometimes adds input for E-stop. I prefer 2nd hand brand ones over new Chinese (about same price), the documentation is so much easier to understand that set up is more easy. Getting an understandable explanation for the many parameters helps.

Greetings Timo

Hello Timo, yes there is another workhead. Below is a view inside the cabinet. There are a couple of items that I have bought or already had but the rest came with it, including the magnetic table which I remove when I need to use the workhead and centres.

 

[Preston Engebretson]

"I was advised here in some posts to look for accessories. And as I feared the machine comes with "one" as in "1" collet. I did not even care to check its size. I think the seller bought it to be able to demonstrate the machine, the collet nut was brand new and srewed on very smooth. It uses C10 collets which limits clamping range from 2.4 to 10 mm diameter. These Collets seem to be Japanese style milling chuck collets. I will have to source them somewhere. ( I was told it is easy, I was not told it is cheap) "

I had a look as C10 was not known to me...looks like they are like Hens Teeth...hard to find.

Here are some dimensions for them that I found.

http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/CC_Collet.html
Best Regards,

Preston

 

[timo_gross]

"I was advised here in some posts to look for accessories. And as I feared the machine comes with "one" as in "1" collet. I did not even care to check its size. I think the seller bought it to be able to demonstrate the machine, the collet nut was brand new and srewed on very smooth. It uses C10 collets which limits clamping range from 2.4 to 10 mm diameter. These Collets seem to be Japanese style milling chuck collets. I will have to source them somewhere. ( I was told it is easy, I was not told it is cheap) "

I had a look as C10 was not known to me...looks like they are like Hens Teeth...hard to find.

Here are some dimensions for them that I found.

http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/CC_Collet.html
Best Regards,

Preston

Hi Preston,

Thanks for jumping in, it looks like the C10 you found is again something different. But these are the ones that I need.

http://www.mst-corp.co.jp/en/
I can get the collets from this japanese company there is a local reseller were I can order it. C10 is the smallest size clamp range from 2.4 mm to 10 mm.

Greetings Timo

 

[timo_gross]

So the machine came, I paid, they dumped it on my floor.

As the simplest small beginners project I tried to convert some broken carbide endmills into a 60° tip.

I am a little shocked .

That tiny wheel makes quick dust out of the carbide Two tips 6 mm no pollishing, or anything right out of the grinding.

I tried to polish a little, hard to see a difference on the photo.

It will take time, to figure out how this all works.

Greetings Timo

 

[simonbirt]

I have a Kennet and a Quorn, I built the Kennet about 20 years ago and acquired the Quorn nearly finished.

I use the Kennet all the time as it is simple to set up and does a good job on lathe tools and end mills. The Quorn will sharpen almost anything (with the right accessory). If I had to choose one over the other, it would be the Kennet as it does 99% of what I need to do.

If you fancy a challenge then building the Quorn could be for you. Just making the ball handles took weeks.

I also have a Darex drill sharpener (Industrial version) which does a fine job. But again I can produce 4 facet drill points on the Kennet.

Some photos of the line up with accessories;

 

[simonbirt]

 

[goldstar31]

I have BOTH and would recommend the Kennet for day to day tasks.
Actually I am awaiting the delivery of the new Mark3 Quorn kit.

 

[Richard Hed]

H

I have a Kennet and a Quorn, I built the Kennet about 20 years ago and acquired the Quorn nearly finished.

I use the Kennet all the time as it is simple to set up and does a good job on lathe tools and end mills. The Quorn will sharpen almost anything (with the right accessory). If I had to choose one over the other, it would be the Kennet as it does 99% of what I need to do.

If you fancy a challenge then building the Quorn could be for you. Just making the ball handles took weeks.

I also have a Darex drill sharpener (Industrial version) which does a fine job. But again I can produce 4 facet drill points on the Kennet.

Some photos of the line up with accessories;

How difficult was it to build the Kennet? Do you know where I could get some plans for it?

 

[timo_gross]

Bob
[/QUOTE]

I have a Kennet and a Quorn, I built the Kennet about 20 years ago and acquired the Quorn nearly finished.

I use the Kennet all the time as it is simple to set up and does a good job on lathe tools and end mills. The Quorn will sharpen almost anything (with the right accessory). If I had to choose one over the other, it would be the Kennet as it does 99% of what I need to do.

If you fancy a challenge then building the Quorn could be for you. Just making the ball handles took weeks.

I also have a Darex drill sharpener (Industrial version) which does a fine job. But again I can produce 4 facet drill points on the Kennet.

Some photos of the line up with accessories;

So many adjustment screws and ball handles. The Quorn Grinder workhead looks like a Spider with all the ball handles

The first free improvised attempt looks a little wrong, it was totally broken, and now it is at least side milling after making a new "freestyle" tip. I would call it semi success.
Long way to go.

Outch, first estimate for sich bellow way covers 850 Euros. On the one hand I am happy to hear that the company is at least willing to make it specific to order. On the other hand I was hoping it would not be that expensive.

 

[deverett]

The machine runs on Linar rails on most moving axis. But all the covers are damaged. The seller promised me they would not cost too much, he wants to hook me up with supplier of those.
View attachment 126267

Greetings Timo

I can't really envisage the size of the bellows but one source if they are the correct size is replacement bellows for Seig type milling machines.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[timo_gross]

I can't really envisage the size of the bellows but one source if they are the correct size is replacement bellows for Seig type milling machines.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

I think the size is about the same range. I need to see, question is if the Sieg covers will be "findable". Maybe someone is thinking the first estimate quote over ;-)....
I follow that up, if I can use something that is in mass production it then must be cheaper.

I could use superglue and a family pack of face masks to make disposable way covers.

Greetings Timo.

 

[simonbirt]

H

How difficult was it to build the Kennet? Do you know where I could get some plans for it?

Hello Richard,

The Kennet is not to complicated to build. I got the castings from Model Engineering Services (Ivan Law). All the sliding surfaces were pre ground as I recall. Not sure if castings are still available. Have you looked at the Worden?

The Quorn on the other hand is a major undertaking and to be honest, unless one enjoys it as a project on its own, it would be difficult to justify. At the speed I work I recon it would take a couple of years to build another, with all the accessories. Hence my liking of the Kennet which is very simple and easy to set up, the Quorn is not, which is possibly why Professor Chaddock wrote a 128 page book to explain how to use it.

I think if I were starting again I may go down the Worden route with a few tweaks so that it is as capable as the Kennet.


Simon

 

[goldstar31]

Whilst I agree, the firm of Model Engineering Services no longer trades.
As it is sid, the Worden Mark3 exists with Heminmgwaykits but I doubt that the plans alone are available and the cost of a kit combined with the post and and packsge pus duties maybe daunting.
The alternatives are many but if aspirations are slightly less than those available on the Kennet are acceptable, I would plump for a cheap set of plans( £20) in the UK of the Australian Eccentric Engineering Acute tool and cutter grinder. Apart from a few proprietory handles, the rest is accomplished omn a very modestly equipped lathe from really the contre contents of the scrap bin.
If a grinder with the capabil;ty of prodicing razor sharp lathe tools is your desire and the ability to sharpen the ends of milling cutters is your desire then go ahead with the Acute. You CAN make things easier with a simplr kit or go for the made up machine and add a cheap 6" Chinese double ended grinder having changed the awful grinding wheels to 'something better'

I have a grinder as described along with my Quorn and Kennet.

Hint

From the little kit, it is less than a week's spare time.

I hope vthat this helps


Norman