Let's talk cutter grinders

[BaronJ]

Hi Norman, Guys,

Since this site won't let me edit my own posts and because I won't let Google, Paypal, Youtube and others place stuff I don't want on my computer I'll add my note here !

I wish to add my sincere thanks to all those people that have so generously assisted me in so many ways with help, materials and good advice.
Many Thanks:

 

[goldstar31]

Keep posting johnn. We need a breath of fresh air which you provide

Best Wishes from the even older Grumpy Old Git

 

[coulsea]

hi Couldea

I note that you have a 'Deckel clome'
As I am disappointed in mine-namd others i the past have similar expriences, please tell me what the Chinese affair can do.

The decke WAS designed to sharpen engraving tools but can be pushed to sharpen lathe tools and the ends of milling cutters. Can it actually MAKE mullung cuters which was really the intention of the Quorn and go up to say 1400 rpm and regrind dies and sharpen taps----and possibly be pressed into service to grin-- on the milling machine?

There was a Kiwi. who hsad a Quorn which would do all these things

Thank you

Norman

I bought the dekel clone to sharpen end mills and it will do that, the best use i have found is finishing off valves.
I think that we all know someone who can sharpen things and some who can't, there is an art to using most machines.
I have a Drill Doctor machine for sharpening drill bits and it works really well if all the planets are aligned and there is a full moon.
Back in the day a large factory would have a man who sharpened the tools and he couldn't go on holiday because no one else was as good.

 

[goldstar31]

So Coulsea the Deckel as I supposed is NOT - or anway near being a Universal machine. It obvioudly fills YOUR needs but my Deckel clome certainly doesn't fill mine.

Thank you for your candid reply

Norman

 

[BaronJ]

Keep posting johnn. We need a breath of fresh air which you provide

Best Wishes from the even older Grumpy Old Git

Thanks Norman,

I've had a request for some pictures of my "Brooks" machine, so I will take some and post them later !

 

[goldstar31]

Morning John
I'm intrigued to see what and how much the very basiv 'Brooks' has become.

I was musing about the old Kennet and note that Hemingwaykits has modified( eeek!) it to be a Worden now in its 3rd resurrection (more eeks) and note that if someone wants to add, it has to be a additional plan and obvioudly more cost.

A bit more 'musing' and I would mention that the Quorn was designed originally to be wholly constructed on an ancient - or pre Myford lathe. As Kirk Burwell explains, the Mk3 is simplified( Eh?) or aided or speeded up by the arrival of the milling machine- which Chaddock also 'improved' in bits from the westbury, to the Dore(nArnold Throp) to him actually making 1/10th inch cutter for his much acclaimed V6.

Getting a bit long wided

So I am doing a bit of plastering as Sir Winston Churchill was reputed to do

Time for my intraveinous injection of coffee. LOL

 

[goldstar31]

Whilst the coffee is removing some of last night's malt whisky, here is an idea.

In the days of yore, the late and much lamented John Stevenson crossed our rather blunt Dekel ground swords at each other! We claimed that each of us had 'invented; or modified athe rudiments or basis of tool grinder.

In memorial to John MBE and all that, here it is.

Buy from Evil Bay a Three way vice for about £35 ( or a bottle vof average malt whisky)

So we hthen have--- a Brooks minus the tool holder of choice and an El Cheapo 6" double ended grinmder. Remove the paing stones - or Chinrde abrasive wheels and replace with 'summat decent' and there is a good tool and cutter grinder- for 'a couple of bottles or blended whisky.
I'm serios and disgustingly sober!

Norman

 

[clockworkcheval]

I guess that for general tool grinding you need the possibility to hold square/rectangular tools and rotational tools. To present the tool to the grinder you need the possibility for lineair movement in three directions and angular movement in at least two planes.
For my non-professional home use I got an old solid GOTHA (maybe pre-war) tool- and cutter grinder. I added a home-made sinus-table which can hold a square/rectangular toolholder or an indexer with ER25 colletholder. For the sinustable I made a quick nonius -setting to 0,1 degree. The sinustable and the indexer can be super-imposed. This works fine for lathe tools and mills.
For drills from diameter 2 to 13 mm I use a Chinese copy of the VERTEX grinder. This little machine works so well and quick that I now much more often than before touch up my drills.
For the larger drills up to diameter 25 mm I use the drill grinding attachment to my TORMEK wet grinder. (The prohibitive cost of the TORMEK was ok'd by my wife because it also grinds all the kitchen knives to an unprecedented sharpness). Drill grinding on the TORMEK is OK but is much more cumbersome than on the copy-VERTEX grinder. So I do the touching-up of the larger drills for 4-5 times by hand and then again by machine.
Many of my machining friends use the Deckel grinder or a self-made copy. Mostly for drills and mills.
So if you have the space I would advise to purchase a used professional tool and cutter grinder. You get all the built-in mass and precision and overhauling is not a big issue as they tend to be quite straightforward of construction. Maybe you want to adapt the spindle to hold a wider variety of grinding wheels and if so you may want to get a bigger motor to drive it.

 

[Preston Engebretson]

I ended up purchasing a Cincinatti #1 Tool and Cutter Grinder...the attachments allow
sharpening almost any cutter, reamer, drill, milling cutter, ect that one could think of
wanting to sharpen...

It is Fully Adjustable in all planes and axis's...very useful

The primary down side is the size and weight around 5000 pounds but when it is needed
it is Invaluable to have sitting at the ready to sharpen what one needs...

I made this decision as I live in Mexico and just ordering a new sharp cutting tool may take
some time to arrive...

Regards,

Preston

 

[awake]

I ended up purchasing a Cincinatti #1 Tool and Cutter Grinder...the attachments allow
sharpening almost any cutter, reamer, drill, milling cutter, ect that one could think of
wanting to sharpen...

It is Fully Adjustable in all planes and axis's...very useful

The primary down side is the size and weight around 5000 pounds but when it is needed
it is Invaluable to have sitting at the ready to sharpen what one needs...

I made this decision as I live in Mexico and just ordering a new sharp cutting tool may take
some time to arrive...

Regards,

Preston

Sounds like this will be a good table-top machine to use ...

 

[Preston Engebretson]

Sounds like this will be a good table-top machine to use ...

The one advantage to the Cincinnati
5000 pound machine, it that the surface finish is Great
as Nothing moves or vibrates on this Beast...

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Guys,

Here are some pictures of my much modified "Books" TCG !

I put all the electrics into small plastic box mounted above the Parvalux motor. Kindly donated by Norman (Goldstar). The switches are power and direction. I used a standard IEC power socket so the the power cable could easily be removed.

I used a toothed timing belt to drive the spindle cartridge. As shown with the small pulley on the spindle, I get just over 5500 rpm. In order to allow the spindle pulley size to be changed I made a belt tensioner using a couple of ball races.

The white alox 120 grit grinding wheel is 100 mm by 12 mm and has a 6K rating with a 32 mm bore. In the background you can see the ER25 collet and tilt mechanism. The large brass screw securing the collet shaft in the mounting.

This is a better view of the tool holder. There is a 7/16 slot drill held in the collet ready to have the end reground. The holder is tilted down at 5 degrees. The "Y" traverse leadscrew is a zero backlash one with an M6 thread calibrated in thous.

My thanks go to those that have given their help and support with this project.

 

[goldstar31]

Morning John

I particularly like the addition of being able to raise and lower the grinding head etc.. This us also part of the blackgates Stent configration ans adds the 3D function to aan already worhwhile design.

So----- NICE!


Norman

 

[timo_gross]

Hello,

I really like that it seems to be fun and become a nice discussion for everyone.

During the visit to the vendor of the Japanese machine, he happens to be only 2 km away from my place, I trapped my self into an impulse buy. I am not 100% sure if I did the right thing.

The spindle is mounted on a vertical column, the spindle can be moved up and down, and from left to right.
The workpiece holding head can be adjusted in some angles, but obviously not tilted up or down.

The head can be tilted so that the work holding spindle and the grinding spindle are parallel, or more than 90°.

For following the flutes, it has something similar to a lathe taper attachment.

The vertical column with the spindle can be rotated around the vertical axis a little in both directions.

A hand wheel is broken. I have to fix it.

The machine runs on Linar rails on most moving axis. But all the covers are damaged. The seller promised me they would not cost too much, he wants to hook me up with supplier of those.

Accessories:

I was advised here in some posts to look for accessories. And as I feared the machine comes with "one" as in "1" collet. I did not even care to check its size. I think the seller bought it to be able to demonstrate the machine, the collet nut was brand new and srewed on very smooth. It uses C10 collets which limits clamping range from 2.4 to 10 mm diameter. These Collets seem to be Japanese style milling chuck collets. I will have to source them somewhere. ( I was told it is easy, I was not told it is cheap). I think practically the working range of the collets covers 85% of what I use. Only advantage is that they have a much better runout spec than ER collets.

The machine uses tiny tapered grinding wheel hubs. It comes with a few of those hubs. Grinding wheels inside diameter is 31.75, seems to be a common size.

The motor is a 3-phase 200 W motor that looks like it can run all day long, without problem. ( just from the looks)


The machine was not cheap, but I managed to get 15% off the first asking price, plus free shipping. They will bring the 300 kg heavy beast with a truck with boom crane and unload it, so I do not have to do any difficult moving.

I saw the many home made solutions and at some point I will have another look into this I think it is a very interesting project to make one, even if it is only selfserving.

Norman sugested the lathe tool grinding jig, a thing that this machine is not really capable of.

...... with an Acute system set of plans and the firm's excellent videos. ....
norman

I think I will follow that route at some point making a lathe tool grinding aid.

I ended up purchasing a Cincinatti #1 Tool and Cutter Grinder... ...
I made this decision as I live in Mexico and just ordering a new sharp cutting tool may take
some time to arrive...

I must admit there is no such excuse available for me. I think I can buy all cutters somewhere, if not exotic size or spec within one workday.
If exotic size or spec, it is a matter of price quantity and waiting time.

The complete thing is nonsense in economical categories. Comparable to Aluminium wheels for the car. Something people (me) think they need to have, but is not neccesary.

I will see what I will do with it. (Doorstop not an option, it is too heavy to move to the door)

Greetings Timo

 

[timo_gross]

p.s. for the ambitious diy enthusiast they also had a shadow graph for sale.
It was a little bigger than an arcade machine maybe 25-30 inch screen diameter.

 

[Brian Hutchings]

The shadowgraph looks interesting, unfortunately there is about 3000 miles of sea between it and me!
Brian

 

[clockworkcheval]

Mass, versatility, presumably precision and some not too serious repairs. I love it! On covers: my antique grinder tried to rely on solid metal moving covers. From the local sailmaker I got a length of tight sailcover cloth. I cut rectangles from it and after set-up I attach those with some magnets. No expense, quick and effective.

 

[goldstar31]

A exchange beterrm Good Queen Bess and Sir Walter Raleigh

WR 'Fain would I climbe
Fear I to fall'
GQB
If they heart fail thee
Climb not at all'

Finally, his head was chopped off
Whether the axe was shapened on a tool and cutter grinder is not recorded

 

[clockworkcheval]

No hole in the bucket?

 

[timo_gross]

The shadowgraph looks interesting, unfortunately there is about 3000 miles of sea between it and me!
Brian

It was so huge, you could park your model traction engine inside, or make a camping trailer out of it.
But they were asking few thousand USD for it.