Lets Talk 6X4 Bandsaws !

[goldstar31]

Hello Norman,

Jack620 was maybe just trying to be nice, and stop my sobbing.
There is nothing that I can make, that cannot be done better by someone else that is my fate, luckily not fatal.
Here we are: One is beeing accused of having no taste (who only tried to be nice), one start sobbing again, third one starts snobbing.

Greetings Timo

The book is perhaps £30 and with a vast bumber of designs anf hints and great experience whilst you on the other hand get aan inferior product- for free.

That is my view on things not only on this hobby but life generally. My observation on lfe of which I have only ONE.

Best Wishes nebertheless

Norman

 

[goldstar31]

Hi Norman,
Yes he will make up a blade to your requirements. Next time I go there I will ask for you !

Is it blades for the Titan that you are looking for ? If so you might be out of luck, those blades are only 1/4" inch wide I think that he doesn't stock anything smaller than 1/2" inch wide.

I bought a "Titan" bandsaw from Screwfix a while ago, before I got the 6X4 bandsaw. I modified it hoping that I could get it to run slow enough for cutting steel ! I did improve its cutting for aluminium and brasses. But found that it was really only any good for wood.

Thanks John

I do have a spare blade- somewhere and I know that there are cheaper and therefore inferior blades. Sorry, SmithDoor but I'nm intrsted in quality and am not dominsted by p[[rice or lack of price.

John

I have the question of the Titan wood blade to address. No, not yet bit mine will not last foever.

So thank you for your help and I will have to think again regarding the wood blade.
My trouble is that trying to read catogues that are printed small and in green are night impossible to read now. I have to wait a firther 5 weeks before I can just be consulted let alone have treatment- whateverthat might be- for another 5 weeks.
My eye jabs are not until August.

Meanwhile, I struggle on regardless and on my own.

 

[awake]

Hello,

I am only using a vertical band saw.
I had bit frustration with the cheap blades, because in the hobby I sometimes cut the "mystery steel" and it can ruin a carbon blade in a pinch.
So I asked the people where I buy my steel were they buy their blades, they gave me the contact of their saw supplier.
I asked the lady at the saw supplier, what she suggests. They sold me some blade that was half as long for double the price, but it has the right number of teeth, better material and just works much better.
The CNC guys have one trick, to cut too thin material with a too coarse blade by infeeding at a controlled rate, then the tooth cannot grab and the blade cuts on the edge. (like a fly cutter). I guess that can be done also for the home shop with a mechanised down feed of some sort.



My contour saw has an integrated blade welder, so I can (have to) make the loop myself. Someone was welding blades, clamping them on an Aluminium Block and just Tig welding them. Heat up to cherry red, let cool down on air to anneal the weld. Grind reasonable flat. For a broken band it might work if still long enough.
View attachment 126619
Dedicated blade welders can be bought stand alone. (snatching some broken belts from someone with a bigger saw for free?)

Greetings Timo

Hi Timo,

I don't think I've shown any of my results here, but I have gotten half-way decent at TIG welding bandsaw blades together. Only half-way - I still have somewhat variable results, but more and more often I get them to run straight, not do too much of a bump where the teeth have been messed up at the weld (still working on that bit), and not to break (or if they do, not at my weld).

 

[goldstar31]

Timp
It would appear that my words have been misconstrued and and therefore taken out of com-text.
If you gave been upset then I must humbly apologise

 

[timo_gross]

Timp
It would appear that my words have been misconstrued and and therefore taken out of com-text.
If you gave been upset then I must humbly apologise

OFF Topic:

Hello Norman,

No worries I am not really upset, I apreciate that you are asking. In your last post I figured, that you refer to the design shown in the book as superior, ment as advise in the first place not by means of upsetting.
This particular finger plate did a good job, keeping my fingers safe (is that were the name comes from?) when cutting small HSS and carbide bits with the big abrasive chop saw.
My music teacher once said: "If someone does not give you criticism anymore, most of the time this does not mean that you are doing it perfect. It usually means the person does not bother anymore and gave up to say something!"

So I prefer an honest: "You could have done better" over beeing ignored any time.
I contacted the publisher if they would ship a copy of the book to Taiwan. If I ever get around to make "a good (as in malt whisky) one" I am not sure.

Cheers Timo

Back to business.

I was brought up to determine the number of teeth from the thickness of the metal.

Whether it is right or not is another matter

All information I could find confirms, pitch goes with thickness. For 12 mm wide blade coarsest pitch I could find was 6 TPI.
That foto I took from the back of my saw band metal box. The stuff comes in coils of 16 m so one meter costs roughly six pounds and it needs to be welded.
It gives a "rule of thumb" chart. T refers to thickness, P to blade pitch.

Greetings Timo

 

[goldstar31]

I passed a copy of your lkast reply to a to a bunch of 'savants' who, lije me, are in their 70's, their 80' and their 90' and they were shocked and annoyed at your attempt not only to rell a person who was and is a feiend of the editor of 'the book' which COPYRIGHT under the laws of the United Kingdom and the later plans which are later incorpirated in the modestly priced kit subsequently .
I can tell you that the editor is and was a personal friend and associare og my late wife and mydelf.
The gentleman was a graduand and then a graduare in Sentistry at Durham Ubiversity in Newcastle upon Tyne and thereafter established hid own practice until he , like most of us wise old owls too early retiement and took on the mammoth task of collating the writings and experience of arguably one of the Worlld's finest engieers not only in model soze but ran and owned engineering businesses in the USA andsd the UK. . The book compilation was 'a labour of love' eather than ewiving a very modest payment.
Responsible caring people do things - for free. My wife who was the 2nd Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons was quite happy to give her skills and knowlwdfw not only free but at her own expenses,
I spoke with her old friend yestrday who , dspite being partially incapacitated with old age wants to return to a Church in Austria, yet again to help.

Today, the World continues to be rocked by the Covid19 Pandemic, Many of my friends and relatives are working among those who have comtracted the disease. I'm a major shareholder in a pharmaceutical that is working flat out to provide vaccines - at cost-- and no dividends in that direction to those , despite their age etc, saw it all going to happen and ACTED!.

And You,, SIR, have the audacity not only to refute and criticise the experience of many decades but have the audacity to ask a very responsible law abifing - plilathropist( oh Yes) to break the laws of this country.

I'm franhlu disgusted and am saddened by the fact that the true nature of the posting is not only selfish but ILLEGAL.


I can only jope that the many, many other responsible members will find the matter highly irresponsible

 

[Hopsteiner]

Dave, I have used a lot of low-cost carbon steel blades (mostly from Harbor Freight) through the years. The finer pitch blades (24tpi) have generally lasted okay, but I have had poor results with their larger pitch blades (10tpi) even though it would be far more appropriate for cutting through 1" steel - they generally break sooner rather than later.

I have long read how much better and longer lasting bi-metal vari-pitch blades are. I am just such a cheapskate that I have been reluctant to spend the money - $6.99 for the carbon-steel blades, and they get the job done, even if the ones that last the longest (24tpi) take a long time to saw through heavier metal. Meanwhile, the prices I typically see on Lennox or Starret blades are around $30 per blade - are they really 5x better, 5x longer lasting?

Well ... after some frustration with the short life of both a 10tpi and a 18tpi carbon steel blade, I decided to take the plunge ... but I got diverted when I saw that there are some (presumably made in the far east) off-brand bi-metal vari-pitch blades available on Amazon for about half the price. I decided to buy one and try it out. Here is the one I bought: Imachinist S6412121418 Bi-Metal Band Saw Blades 64-1/2" X 1/2" X 14/18tpi for Cutting Soft Metal: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific; I got it for $16.99.

The verdict so far: it definitely cuts much faster than the 24tpi carbon steel blades, has lasted much longer than the 10tpi or 18tpi carbon steel blades, and has handled any thickness of metal I have used it on with no fuss. The last couple of cuts have not been straight down vertically, which might suggest that the set is worn more on one side than the other ... but it may also be a function of the fact that I have been having some trouble getting my blade guides adjusted (long story there that includes some of the relatively poor design of the saw itself). I will need to go a bit longer to come to any final conclusions about its value vs. the cheap blades, and of course to do justice to the topic, I really need to poney up the $30 for a Starret or Lennox and see how "the real thing" performs. (Isn't it odd that we can plunk down hundreds of dollars on a machine tool, but hate to spend much money on the tooling for it - or is that just me?)

Certainly not advocating for this brand, and no affiliation other than having bought one (and only one) - just sharing my experience thus far.

This series of threads interests me very much. I have an old Atlas drop saw. It has gotten into the habit of throwing blades. I bought new tires, didn’t really solve the problem. I have thought about machining new bronze bearings and taking a skim cut on the wheels. A better guide system would probably be in order. I’ve been reduced to using a hack saw. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[SmithDoor]

Rebuild it good saw.
I have rebuilt a wells band saw 2 times in 30 years. My father purchased in 1948 and rebuilt in the 1950's by some else.
This does include the repairs do employees
The motor was rewind 2 times.

The saw was almost used every day from 1948 to 2004.
We also had other saws too including the 4x6 saws.

Dave

This series of threads interests me very much. I have an old Atlas drop saw. It has gotten into the habit of throwing blades. I bought new tires, didn’t really solve the problem. I have thought about machining new bronze bearings and taking a skim cut on the wheels. A better guide system would probably be in order. I’ve been reduced to using a hack saw. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[awake]

I passed a copy of your lkast reply to a to a bunch of 'savants' who, lije me, are in their 70's, their 80' and their 90' and they were shocked and annoyed at your attempt not only to rell a person who was and is a feiend of the editor of 'the book' which COPYRIGHT under the laws of the United Kingdom and the later plans which are later incorpirated in the modestly priced kit subsequently .
I can tell you that the editor is and was a personal friend and associare og my late wife and mydelf.
The gentleman was a graduand and then a graduare in Sentistry at Durham Ubiversity in Newcastle upon Tyne and thereafter established hid own practice until he , like most of us wise old owls too early retiement and took on the mammoth task of collating the writings and experience of arguably one of the Worlld's finest engieers not only in model soze but ran and owned engineering businesses in the USA andsd the UK. . The book compilation was 'a labour of love' eather than ewiving a very modest payment.
Responsible caring people do things - for free. My wife who was the 2nd Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons was quite happy to give her skills and knowlwdfw not only free but at her own expenses,
I spoke with her old friend yestrday who , dspite being partially incapacitated with old age wants to return to a Church in Austria, yet again to help.

Today, the World continues to be rocked by the Covid19 Pandemic, Many of my friends and relatives are working among those who have comtracted the disease. I'm a major shareholder in a pharmaceutical that is working flat out to provide vaccines - at cost-- and no dividends in that direction to those , despite their age etc, saw it all going to happen and ACTED!.

And You,, SIR, have the audacity not only to refute and criticise the experience of many decades but have the audacity to ask a very responsible law abifing - plilathropist( oh Yes) to break the laws of this country.

I'm franhlu disgusted and am saddened by the fact that the true nature of the posting is not only selfish but ILLEGAL.


I can only jope that the many, many other responsible members will find the matter highly irresponsible

Norman, I can't tell to whom you are responding. Is it possible that this is referring to a different thread?

 

[goldstar31]

Andrew
Andrew


See above


I have been asked to ship a copy of a copyrufhted book

The copy right holder was a fanuky friend

Cheers

Norman

 

[Shelton]

goldstar31 do you know where that book can be purchased? That may help the other guys.

 

[timo_gross]

Hello all,

The book can be purchased here.

https://www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/in-your-workshop/model-engineers-workshop-manual/
I contacted them yesterday, but today I got their reply that they unfortunately do not ship things to Taiwan.

Greetings Timo

 

[BaronJ]

This series of threads interests me very much. I have an old Atlas drop saw. It has gotten into the habit of throwing blades. I bought new tires, didn’t really solve the problem. I have thought about machining new bronze bearings and taking a skim cut on the wheels. A better guide system would probably be in order. I’ve been reduced to using a hack saw. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Hi Hopsteiner,

I don't know the "Atlas" drop saw at all ! However wear in the spindles and wheel hubs will cause the kind of problem that you describe.

I spent a reasonable amount of time setting up items so that I could measure and quantify the wear and run out of the wheels. Fortunately the bandsaw I obtained had done very little work, I suspect damaged quite early in its life.

However when setting it up use a new blade and spend the time to set things properly. Use hardwood for test cuts. I can get a straight vertical cut within a few thou over three inches.

 

[goldstar31]

goldstar31 do you know where that book can be purchased? That may help the other guys.

Angie - Igavwe my old vattered cipy away and bought a new one.
Since this started, I have just had a couple of phone calls to tell me that a dear older friend has had a 2nf fall and has died at the age of 94. This old bloke built almost all the bits in BOTH books.
I've just told the daughter that I would probly better the best offer for the whole workshop.

Some of the stuff is actually mine but friendship is friendship.

As for who asked me to mske can only be reharfed as a pirated copy is, as I sais to Awake just above me earlier comments HERE

The loss of a fdear friend who held the information in both books has upset me more than can be imagined

THE POSTING HAS BEEN ALTERED

Norman

 

[goldstar31]

OFF Topic:

Hello Norman,

No worries I am not really upset, I apreciate that you are asking. In your last post I figured, that you refer to the design shown in the book as superior, ment as advise in the first place not by means of upsetting.
This particular finger plate did a good job, keeping my fingers safe (is that were the name comes from?) when cutting small HSS and carbide bits with the big abrasive chop saw.
My music teacher once said: "If someone does not give you criticism anymore, most of the time this does not mean that you are doing it perfect. It usually means the person does not bother anymore and gave up to say something!"

So I prefer an honest: "You could have done better" over beeing ignored any time.
I contacted the publisher if they would ship a copy of the book to Taiwan. If I ever get around to make "a good (as in malt whisky) one" I am not sure.

Cheers Timo

Back to business.



All information I could find confirms, pitch goes with thickness. For 12 mm wide blade coarsest pitch I could find was 6 TPI.
That foto I took from the back of my saw band metal box. The stuff comes in coils of 16 m so one meter costs roughly six pounds and it needs to be welded.
It gives a "rule of thumb" chart. T refers to thickness, P to blade pitch.
View attachment 126621

Greetings Timo

This is the ALTERED post, I never said what the book was nor the publisher, nor the author NOR the EDITER.

 

[goldstar31]

OFF Topic:

Hello Norman,

No worries I am not really upset, I apreciate that you are asking. In your last post I figured, that you refer to the design shown in the book as superior, ment as advise in the first place not by means of upsetting.
This particular finger plate did a good job, keeping my fingers safe (is that were the name comes from?) when cutting small HSS and carbide bits with the big abrasive chop saw.
My music teacher once said: "If someone does not give you criticism anymore, most of the time this does not mean that you are doing it perfect. It usually means the person does not bother anymore and gave up to say something!"

So I prefer an honest: "You could have done better" over beeing ignored any time.
I contacted the publisher if they would ship a copy of the book to Taiwan. If I ever get around to make "a good (as in malt whisky) one" I am not sure.

Cheers Timo

Back to business.



All information I could find confirms, pitch goes with thickness. For 12 mm wide blade coarsest pitch I could find was 6 TPI.
That foto I took from the back of my saw band metal box. The stuff comes in coils of 16 m so one meter costs roughly six pounds and it needs to be welded.
It gives a "rule of thumb" chart. T refers to thickness, P to blade pitch.
View attachment 126621

Greetings Timo

 

[goldstar31]

You see

I actually printrd off the ORIGINAL before it was altered.

 

[Hopsteiner]

Hi Hopsteiner,

I don't know the "Atlas" drop saw at all ! However wear in the spindles and wheel hubs will cause the kind of problem that you describe.

I spent a reasonable amount of time setting up items so that I could measure and quantify the wear and run out of the wheels. Fortunately the bandsaw I obtained had done very little work, I suspect damaged quite early in its life.

However when setting it up use a new blade and spend the time to set things properly. Use hardwood for test cuts. I can get a straight vertical cut within a few thou over three inches.

It’s an Atlas 4353. I checked the inner diameter of the bronze bushing on the upper wheel. It’s supposed to .625. It’s .630. I think a new bushing and then a skim cut on the outer wheel diameter should take care of the problem.

 

[BaronJ]

It’s an Atlas 4353. I checked the inner diameter of the bronze bushing on the upper wheel. It’s supposed to .625. It’s .630. I think a new bushing and then a skim cut on the outer wheel diameter should take care of the problem.

Yes that would allow it to wobble !
I would check the shaft diameter as well, it might be that just a new bush would sort it. I would replace the bushing before checking and skimming the wheel. You might find that you don't need to do anything to that.

When I checked the wheels on my bandsaw they were only a thou out !

 

[Hopsteiner]

I‘ll make a new bushing and then check the tracking. I was using so much tension on a fairly new Lennox blade it broke. And not at the weld! Getting tired of using a hacksaw.