How not to build a Foundry Iron-Melting Burner

[GreenTwin]

I read recently of someone having problems melting iron, and they describe their oil burner as the type that impinges flame on the burner tube and/or the fuel tube, to preheat the fuel.
There is sort of a cult following for this burner style, but the reality is that it is one of the worst designs you can build.
People try to build better mouse traps, but end up with designs that don't work well at all.

This is a really bad way to make an iron-melting burner, is totally unnecessary, and causes all sorts of burner tube degredation.

The best way to melt gray iron is to use a siphon or pressure nozzle style burner, or a correctly designed drip-style burner.
No flame impingement is required for either of these burners.
The siphon nozzle burner is the burner of choice for me, and performs very consistently.

.

 

[SmithDoor]

I ran across using charcoal for melting cast iron .
Not Kingsford
It charcoal used in restaurants sometimes call Lump charcoal. I have use for BBQ and is is very hot charcoal comes 50 pound bags

Dave

 

[Fidlstyks]

Using charcoal is how steel is made from magnetic ore in sand. I am a member of a FB group, Iron Smelters of the World that do this, which is making and firing of a Bloomery. mostly Nordic type ventures, but done every where. I even have seen a video of it in Japan, where the Samaris made their swords from this steel.

 

[SmithDoor]

Using charcoal is how steel is made from magnetic ore in sand. I am a member of a FB group, Iron Smelters of the World that do this, which is making and firing of a Bloomery. mostly Nordic type ventures, but done every where. I even have seen a video of it in Japan, where the Samaris made their swords from this steel.

They used charcoal around 1600’s because it cost to must to ship coal from England. I read a few magazines did talk about charcoal for cast iron.
The best is coke if available
In California is harder and shipping

Dave

 

[abby]

You should research the history of iron founding , and in particular the life of Abraham Darby. The amount of charcoal required to produce a ton of iron decimated the forests of England and Wales.
The impurities in coal , particularly sulphur , meant that it could not be used as a smelting fuel until Abraham Darby discovered how to use coke in his blast furnace.
This is recognised as one of the factors that started the industrial revolution , or as some might say the beginning of the end.
If you are ever in the UK try to visit the Iron Bridge Gorge where the remains of the original blast furnaces can be seen.
Incidentally my first forays into metal melting some 60 years ago used coke as a fuel , it was readily available as almost every town had a gas works.
A 10 foot stove pipe provided all the draught required to melt brass or bronze with a pleasant quiet of operation that was almost therapeutic.
You would be hard pressed to buy coke in the UK now.
Dan.

 

[abby]

Just out of interest here is a painting of Bethlehem steel works , mid 19th century.

Here is a painting of Bedlam furnaces in the iron bridge gorge also in the early/mid 19th century.

Bedlam is a shortened version of Bethlehem , which was also the name of a mental hospital in London.
The term Bedlam came to be used to describe disorder or hell-like scenes such as the furnaces at night.
The use of the the same name for the two sites has always amused me.
Dan.

 

[SmithDoor]

Just out of interest here is a painting of Bethlehem steel works , mid 19th century.

Here is a painting of Bedlam furnaces in the iron bridge gorge also in the early/mid 19th century.

Bedlam is a shortened version of Bethlehem , which was also the name of a mental hospital in London.
The term Bedlam came to be used to describe disorder or hell-like scenes such as the furnaces at night.
The use of the the same name for the two sites has always amused me.
Dan.

Nice painting
Looks smog free for day

Thank you
Dave

 

[SmithDoor]

I read recently of someone having problems melting iron, and they describe their oil burner as the type that impinges flame on the burner tube and/or the fuel tube, to preheat the fuel.
There is sort of a cult following for this burner style, but the reality is that it is one of the worst designs you can build.
People try to build better mouse traps, but end up with designs that don't work well at all.

This is a really bad way to make an iron-melting burner, is totally unnecessary, and causes all sorts of burner tube degredation.

The best way to melt gray iron is to use a siphon or pressure nozzle style burner, or a correctly designed drip-style burner.
No flame impingement is required for either of these burners.
The siphon nozzle burner is the burner of choice for me, and performs very consistently.

.

Try melt iron is Hard and steel is worst.
What found was propane is ok and Coke or Charcoal is better.
If i was going to melt steel I would look at 3 phase carbon arc.

Induction is best of all but a lot harder to build and find drawings / schematic

Dave

 

[Fidlstyks]

When burning waste oil, the first must is having an afterburner to burn the unspent fumes. Never violate laws.
As for the burner, there are several ways one may do this.
I like an adjustable pressure means. Air works well. When I was melting, I always ran a filter so the tip did not get plugged. If it did, I cranked up the air till it blew through. In the 90s I had to put the oil in a heater. I could not screen it cold. Some times setting on a wood stove, uncapped of course. A tank heater on the compressed oil tank helps flow.
Now I use diesel fuel, as I get raided-inspected. All the law requires is one have an inspection. And records. Bah on that.
Back in the 90s, Kerosene is a byproduct of making gasoline, so in Indiana, they about gave it away. I started using that, opposed to propane.
In Indianapolis Charlie ran an induction furnace. That was great.
Having the fluid flow through a tip that has a needle is nice too. Once it plugs, your hurting. One can design a tip with a needle valve that screws out. This enlarge the orfice to clear it. That requires a right angle blow pipe. If running two burners, that is how it is made anyway.
Larger furnacea use two burners. That way they ignite each other. Otherwise you have a dead spot where the burner goes in at. It takes about a foot for the fuel to atomize and ignite.
I weld a slug on the end of the blow pipe with an 1.250" reducer hole in a 2.5" pipe to make turbulance.
My first furnace, dad used a threaded end, with replacable tips he beat closed to about 3/8". Then propane was fed through a pipe. I incert a mixer like in a torch head for propane now.
But liquids must inject at before a reatricted tip.
Some people use a gear drive pump from a fuel oil furnace. They get hot.
I pour when I cannot see the iron with bear eyes.
It takes some fidling and figuring out. But alot of people melt and cast grey iron. The trick is machinable iron.
If I had my life to do over again, I would cast proto types and one offs, then make plates and let the big foundries pour it. There is really no money in it. Just the access is all there is. That is what my custombers did. In the 90s, people started having my best gravy parts made across the waters, I think Taiwan. That killed me. Without gravy jobs, models were pretty poor income.
The local scrap yard, owned by Mr Silverstein and DeJode, Dutch for the Jew, says all the foundries are now in Turkey. Which actually means more in percentage. We still have foundries in Iowa. China melts, they even have ingot foundries on ships in international waters.
John Deere use to have the largest mobile foundry in the world. An Imduction furnace on tracks.
Story has it they sold insurance, and one of the high ups walked into the foundry, and said, "We have to get riid of this", and that closed the foundry.
I had a neighbor lady whose husband worked at the Maytag Foundry, he died of silicosis.
The foundry in Perry Iowa who had cast the scale Detweiler JD and the JD carts for Bob Cambell now makes Ford axles and other manufacturers parts.

 

[SmithDoor]

When burning waste oil, the first must is having an afterburner to burn the unspent fumes. Never violate laws.
As for the burner, there are several ways one may do this.
I like an adjustable pressure means. Air works well. When I was melting, I always ran a filter so the tip did not get plugged. If it did, I cranked up the air till it blew through. In the 90s I had to put the oil in a heater. I could not screen it cold. Some times setting on a wood stove, uncapped of course. A tank heater on the compressed oil tank helps flow.
Now I use diesel fuel, as I get raided-inspected. All the law requires is one have an inspection. And records. Bah on that.
Back in the 90s, Kerosene is a byproduct of making gasoline, so in Indiana, they about gave it away. I started using that, opposed to propane.
In Indianapolis Charlie ran an induction furnace. That was great.
Having the fluid flow through a tip that has a needle is nice too. Once it plugs, your hurting. One can design a tip with a needle valve that screws out. This enlarge the orfice to clear it. That requires a right angle blow pipe. If running two burners, that is how it is made anyway.
Larger furnacea use two burners. That way they ignite each other. Otherwise you have a dead spot where the burner goes in at. It takes about a foot for the fuel to atomize and ignite.
I weld a slug on the end of the blow pipe with an 1.250" reducer hole in a 2.5" pipe to make turbulance.
My first furnace, dad used a threaded end, with replacable tips he beat closed to about 3/8". Then propane was fed through a pipe. I incert a mixer like in a torch head for propane now.
But liquids must inject at before a reatricted tip.
Some people use a gear drive pump from a fuel oil furnace. They get hot.
I pour when I cannot see the iron with bear eyes.
It takes some fidling and figuring out. But alot of people melt and cast grey iron. The trick is machinable iron.
If I had my life to do over again, I would cast proto types and one offs, then make plates and let the big foundries pour it. There is really no money in it. Just the access is all there is. That is what my custombers did. In the 90s, people started having my best gravy parts made across the waters, I think Taiwan. That killed me. Without gravy jobs, models were pretty poor income.
The local scrap yard, owned by Mr Silverstein and DeJode, Dutch for the Jew, says all the foundries are now in Turkey. Which actually means more in percentage. We still have foundries in Iowa. China melts, they even have ingot foundries on ships in international waters.
John Deere use to have the largest mobile foundry in the world. An Imduction furnace on tracks.
Story has it they sold insurance, and one of the high ups walked into the foundry, and said, "We have to get riid of this", and that closed the foundry.
I had a neighbor lady whose husband worked at the Maytag Foundry, he died of silicosis.
The foundry in Perry Iowa who had cast the scale Detweiler JD and the JD carts for Bob Cambell now makes Ford axles and other manufacturers parts.

Kerosene is also use for jet fuel and if very cold in diesel engines call #1 fuel oil.

Dave

 

[SmithDoor]

I read recently of someone having problems melting iron, and they describe their oil burner as the type that impinges flame on the burner tube and/or the fuel tube, to preheat the fuel.
There is sort of a cult following for this burner style, but the reality is that it is one of the worst designs you can build.
People try to build better mouse traps, but end up with designs that don't work well at all.

This is a really bad way to make an iron-melting burner, is totally unnecessary, and causes all sorts of burner tube degredation.

The best way to melt gray iron is to use a siphon or pressure nozzle style burner, or a correctly designed drip-style burner.
No flame impingement is required for either of these burners.
The siphon nozzle burner is the burner of choice for me, and performs very consistently.

.

If you planning doing a lot casting
A low cost fuel #4 or #6 fuel oil. Some foundries use this on east coast.
I forgot the price I know after shipping 200 miles it 1/2 cost of propane.
At I using 500 gallons of propane a week .

The only drawback for some is you need 10,000 gallon tank and buy atless 5,000 gallons at time.

This fuel is use for shipping on ocean.
Some Cat engines can use #4 fuel oil 🛢 too.

If remember right It also burns hotter than other fuels and more BTU's per gallon.
I almost switched to this fuel. Had to many orders coming and easier to have others do foundry work

Dave

 

[abby]

Fidistyks wrote "I pour when I cannot see the iron with bear eyes."
like Goldilocks says "Not too hot , not too cold but just right"
I am not the spelling police it just made me grin .

 

[Fidlstyks]

Fidistyks wrote "I pour when I cannot see the iron with bear eyes."
like Goldilocks says "Not too hot , not too cold but just right"
I am not the spelling police it just made me grin .

Stupid auto correct, between that and AI, I have been afraid it will order our missiles to deploy to euthanize America and do us all in.

 

[abby]

Lol.

 

[Jojo]

Mr.Fidlstyks,
I am curious why you were compelled to mention the local scrap yard was “ owned by a Jew” .
Was this necessary to get your story across?

 

[Fidlstyks]

Mr.Fidlstyks,
I am curious why you were compelled to mention the local scrap yard was “ owned by a Jew” .
Was this necessary to get your story across?

You must not ever go to the scrap yard. They are all owned by Jews you know. I am alittle shocked anyone would take offense, am thinking Troll?
The guy I see likes it. Of course he married a Methodist and I played with his kids.

 

[Fidlstyks]

If any one is taking notes and planning on melting iron, did I mention, I start with about 50# of scrap. I like older agrucultural iron. If melting an engine block, or anything with oil contact, I always preheat all pieces, and that burns out the oil. Oil in iron maes blow holes in castings.
I also place 3-5 walnut ize pieces of coke in the pot. This makes heat, and builds up the carbon content.

 

[Fidlstyks]

I read recently of someone having problems melting iron, and they describe their oil burner as the type that impinges flame on the burner tube and/or the fuel tube, to preheat the fuel.
There is sort of a cult following for this burner style, but the reality is that it is one of the worst designs you can build.
People try to build better mouse traps, but end up with designs that don't work well at all.

This is a really bad way to make an iron-melting burner, is totally unnecessary, and causes all sorts of burner tube degredation.

The best way to melt gray iron is to use a siphon or pressure nozzle style burner, or a correctly designed drip-style burner.
No flame impingement is required for either of these burners.
The siphon nozzle burner is the burner of choice for me, and performs very consistently.

.

I had a burner with a bent and spiraled piece of 1/8" steel pipe as an apparatus where the flame-fire of the burner went through this tube, thus preheating the fuel.
Another one I seen was like a flame thrower, hand held like a gun but louder space heater. I think it used propane, or maybe Diesel?
I think it would atomize the fuel.
I think it would be best to use the double burner.
D effinately have an atomizing burner.

 

[Fidlstyks]

I also might mention that my first pours in 1980 were melted by coal in an old tank heater burried in the ground with an old electric forge blower melting in large babbitt Ladles, then crucibles found in a scrap yard.
I soon went to vacumm sweepers for blowers. I still use a Kirby.

 

[GreenTwin]

It is really interesting to read about other people's foundry experiences.
There is so much to learn, and so many different ways to do the same thing.

It took me about six years to get a good handle on casting gray iron.
Many things that I was told about it turned out to be myths.

I really like the pressure and spray nozzle burners, since they don't require fuel preheat, and if you use clean diesel and an inline filter, they are very reliable, with good fine tuning, and instant on-off; and the burner tube runs cool to the touch.
I would never give up my siphon and pressure nozzle burners.

.