Gingery metal shaper in cast iron?

[Richard Hed]

If you like building tools yourself, as I do, I would thimpfk you would want to build one, even if it is out of solid stock and not cast. I believe it would be nearly as easy with solid stock, maybe need some adjustments but you could build a larger one than the 6". Welding and bolts will make it heavy and strong. All you would need is the metal and a drawing. Doe you have a dwg?

I have the drawings that came with the metal casting kit from Martin Model and Pattern, for the 4" Strong Arm Shaper. I think you could just get a set, and blow them up so it fits a 6" pattern, and like you say, build it all from solid steel parts. With a shaper, you want plenty of extra weight. Just order steel bars and plate in the dimensions you want, and bolt or weld everything together.
But I think the 4" shaper will be plenty big for the work I do. It is mostly small parts for my small locomotives. I have never gotten anywhere near the capacity of my 8" Logan shaper.
I envision the Strong Arm as quietly sitting, bolted to one end of a work bench, and ready to turn out a small part at a moment's notice. Small enough that it will never be in the way, but large enough for anything I might want to make. But perhaps the OP needs something more sizeable. In that case, I would look for a used 8" or 12" Logan. There are still plenty of them out there. In my opinion, a used Logan is worth far more than any brand-new Chinese machine.
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Eventually, I would like to build one, but at the moment, I have so little room in my garage that I trip over stuff just trying to get to my lathe. I am presently trying to put the hed on the mill--this takes up all the extra room, even bits of room that I need. ONce I get the hed out of the way, I'll have room to move around in as normal but not any room for a shaper. I would need a larger shaper , I thimpfks, anyway and of course, that would be way too big.

I have the Gingery drawings, and I'm sure they would be enough to make someting from using steel, welding and bolts.

 

[rpf]

Any good?

 

[radial1951]

Any good?

Now that is a beautiful classic. Do you have any information about it?

 

[rpf]

Sorry, that is all i have. Found it in my collection of interesting machine pictures!

 

[HMEL]

I have been keen on making a gingery metal shaper for a while and have been casting aluminium for a few years but I have been reluctant to cast the whole machine in aluminium.
I have recently been gearing up to start casting in iron and the idea of the shaper came up again. Would it be better in cast iron, and is it worth the trouble?
I'd be keen to hear from anyone who has built a shaper in either alluminium or iron and what their thought are.

A few years ago I explored building a gingery metal shaper. I have the manual and plans. Like you I considered the idea of fabricating it out of steel but using a cnc mill which would eliminate the castings. However, I was not happy with the chain drive nor confident of the control and index mechanism. So put it aside and found the plans for a kit that no longer exists. It was a better design but have not found the time to get motivation back to work with it. At this point in time I am going to concentrate on a milling machine. I also joined a makerspace which has two milling machines. I would post the blue prints for the kit but a little leery of violating copy rights. And finally I have given some thought as to not trying to copy the legacy form of a shaper as what is important is a good ram, table and index control. I actually think with the advancement of Arduino, stepping motors that the index system could be made better. But the project still remains at the bottom of my wish list. I will certainly keep a eye on the development of this subject. Good luck.

 

[William May]

A few years ago I explored building a gingery metal shaper. I have the manual and plans. Like you I considered the idea of fabricating it out of steel but using a cnc mill which would eliminate the castings. However, I was not happy with the chain drive nor confident of the control and index mechanism. So put it aside and found the plans for a kit that no longer exists. It was a better design but have not found the time to get motivation back to work with it. At this point in time I am going to concentrate on a milling machine. I also joined a makerspace which has two milling machines. I would post the blue prints for the kit but a little leery of violating copy rights. And finally I have given some thought as to not trying to copy the legacy form of a shaper as what is important is a good ram, table and index control. I actually think with the advancement of Arduino, stepping motors that the index system could be made better. But the project still remains at the bottom of my wish list. I will certainly keep a eye on the development of this subject. Good luck.

What kit do you have plans for? Are you sure that castings are not available for it?

 

[HMEL]

What kit do you have plans for? Are you sure that castings are not available for it?

William the companies name was The Pootatuck Corporation originally in Stratford Conn. Some of their files can be found on the vintage machinery web site. I could not find the shaper so what I will do is copy them and upload them. The are surprisingly complete. I really don't remember where I came across them most likely in a web search. Since its an old school drawing it might be fun to put it into a three D model like solid works. The bull gear and pinion are a bit fuzzy and not presented well but the info is there to make it. The unit is a six inch shaper but its probably possible to take the dimensions and upscale it. You will also begin to see some of the differences in the gingery construction and this unit. It will probably take a couple of days for me to get them posted. Having seen some other drawings on the vintage machinery list for this company not so hesitant to share what I have.

And to answer your questions I am not sure castings are not available somewhere but they are going to be hard to find given the age I think these drawings are.

Take Care

 

[William May]

William the companies name was The Pootatuck Corporation originally in Stratford Conn. Some of their files can be found on the vintage machinery web site. I could not find the shaper so what I will do is copy them and upload them. The are surprisingly complete. I really don't remember where I came across them most likely in a web search. Since its an old school drawing it might be fun to put it into a three D model like solid works. The bull gear and pinion are a bit fuzzy and not presented well but the info is there to make it. The unit is a six inch shaper but its probably possible to take the dimensions and upscale it. You will also begin to see some of the differences in the gingery construction and this unit. It will probably take a couple of days for me to get them posted. Having seen some other drawings on the vintage machinery list for this company not so hesitant to share what I have.

And to answer your questions I am not sure castings are not available somewhere but they are going to be hard to find given the age I think these drawings are.

Take Care

Ah, I understand now. I was thinking they might have been from a British company. Those are commonly back in production for short periods. That wouldn't be the case for drawings from an American Co. When they go out of business over here, they destroy everything and scrap all their equipment. If these drawings are that old, they may be from before or during WWII. I seriously doubt you will have any copyright issues. I think 50 years is the limit unless someone who owns them takes action to copyright them longer. Probably did not happen in this case. If you read about the Logan Lathe Company, the original family managed to recover the firm, as the prior holder (Houdaille) went out of business and there was no effort to maintain the copyright. They stepped in and reclaimed their business, and it is now being run by the grandson of the original founder.
I'd be very curious to see those drawings.

 

[moose4621]

William the companies name was The Pootatuck Corporation originally in Stratford Conn. Some of their files can be found on the vintage machinery web site. I could not find the shaper so what I will do is copy them and upload them. The are surprisingly complete. I really don't remember where I came across them most likely in a web search. Since its an old school drawing it might be fun to put it into a three D model like solid works. The bull gear and pinion are a bit fuzzy and not presented well but the info is there to make it. The unit is a six inch shaper but its probably possible to take the dimensions and upscale it. You will also begin to see some of the differences in the gingery construction and this unit. It will probably take a couple of days for me to get them posted. Having seen some other drawings on the vintage machinery list for this company not so hesitant to share what I have.

And to answer your questions I am not sure castings are not available somewhere but they are going to be hard to find given the age I think these drawings are.

Take Care

I am keen to see these drawings also.
It sounds like it is a viable option to the Gingery or Acto machines.
Thanks for your effort to copy these.

 

[Richard Hed]

I would like to see them too. I want to have choice if and when I get room for such a thing. In the mean time, I might be able to design something even better having as many drawings as possible. I actualy had a gigantic shaper at one time but never managed to use it, believing at the time that it was just a huge boat anchor and that a mill would do everythign a shaper could do. That may or may not be true, however.

 

[stanstocker]

Greetings folks,

The very prolific Mr. De Waal has plans for a shaper floating around. Not sure where my copy came from, but of interest are the credits:

THE ORIGINAL DESIGN IS BY BARRY MIDGRLEY OF AUSTRALIA AND DRAFTING WORK BY BRIAN RUPNO OF CANADA. MY DESIGN IS TWICE THE SIZE THAN THE ORIGINAL.
I assume that the credit should be to Brian Rupnow, whose name somehow rings a bell

From a quick look, the work table is 140mm X 148mm. I have no further knowledge about the design or if anyone has built this one, perhaps Brian will chime in if he is watching this thread.

I have seen the Strongarm Shaper Gary Martin offers as a casting set, it's been at Cabin Fever quite a few times. If your work fits the envelope, it's probably the quickest way to get to having a machine of this size, and his castings are always top notch.

Cheers,
Stan

 

[moose4621]

Greetings folks,

The very prolific Mr. De Waal has plans for a shaper floating around. Not sure where my copy came from, but of interest are the credits:

THE ORIGINAL DESIGN IS BY BARRY MIDGRLEY OF AUSTRALIA AND DRAFTING WORK BY BRIAN RUPNO OF CANADA. MY DESIGN IS TWICE THE SIZE THAN THE ORIGINAL.
I assume that the credit should be to Brian Rupnow, whose name somehow rings a bell

From a quick look, the work table is 140mm X 148mm. I have no further knowledge about the design or if anyone has built this one, perhaps Brian will chime in if he is watching this thread.

I have seen the Strongarm Shaper Gary Martin offers as a casting set, it's been at Cabin Fever quite a few times. If your work fits the envelope, it's probably the quickest way to get to having a machine of this size, and his castings are always top notch.

Cheers,
Stan

Thanks Stan.
I found this on youTube.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Interesting design.

 

[Richard Hed]

Thanks Stan.
I found this on youTube.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Interesting design.

Very interesting indeed. Unfortunately it ties up one's lathe.

 

[GreenTwin]

The very prolific Mr. De Waal has plans........

Mr. De Waal has converted two sets of my steam engine plans to metric, and using his format/layout.
He seems to consistently credit the source of his drawing information, so that is good, although not necessarily with a direct link to the original drawings.

He is sort of coop's other's drawings, and then his drawings become the defacto drawings that get spread all over the internet, with an advertisement for his drafting service prominently displayed on his drawings.

Not that big of a deal, but that is what he does, and tons of people seem to use his reconstituted drawings.

.

 

[GreenTwin]

There was a Gingery lathe that someone posted a built thread for a few years ago, and someone mentioned some of the limitations of that design.
I decided to just make a new lathe design, and eliminate the weaknesses (ie: make the bed very rigid).

I got the base roughed out, but that was as far as I got.
The intent was to cast this in gray iron.
The same could be done with a shaper though, and it could also be home cast.

 

[Richard Hed]

There was a Gingery lathe that someone posted a built thread for a few years ago, and someone mentioned some of the limitations of that design.
I decided to just make a new lathe design, and eliminate the weaknesses (ie: make the bed very rigid).

I got the base roughed out, but that was as far as I got.
The intent was to cast this in gray iron.
The same could be done with a shaper though, and it could also be home cast.

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One could also weld this together. there is an example of a student on utoob who indeed, built his own from his own design. If I were to do this, I would try welding this part together but try to find some cast iron strips to make the ways with, bolt them on. I thimpfks it would be very strong yet less likely to break.

 

[moose4621]

I am not a big fan of the welded approach. The tension within a structure can be like a wound up spring in storage and unless you can normalize the entire finished component, there is likely to be movement over time. I dont have the capacity to bring a part the size of a shaper ram or lathe bed up to critical temp and hold it there for soaking. That would require a very big furnace.
For me, I think casting or cold fastened structures are to my mind, more suitable.

 

[Richard Hed]

I am not a big fan of the welded approach. The tension within a structure can be like a wound up spring in storage and unless you can normalize the entire finished component, there is likely to be movement over time. I dont have the capacity to bring a part the size of a shaper ram or lathe bed up to critical temp and hold it there for soaking. That would require a very big furnace.
For me, I think casting or cold fastened structures are to my mind, more suitable.

Yeah, you got that right, however, if one is in a rush to get a lathe and cannot afford one . . .

 

[William May]

There was a Gingery lathe that someone posted a built thread for a few years ago, and someone mentioned some of the limitations of that design.
I decided to just make a new lathe design, and eliminate the weaknesses (ie: make the bed very rigid).

I got the base roughed out, but that was as far as I got.
The intent was to cast this in gray iron.
The same could be done with a shaper though, and it could also be home cast.

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You should finish the pattern, and send it to Martin Model and Pattern, and have him get it cast. Perhaps make 2, and sell the second one to offset costs. Although getting an iron casting is not that expensive. But Gary Martin knows which foundries to use for which patterns, which insures you get a good job.

 

[GreenTwin]

You should finish the pattern, and send it to Martin Model and Pattern, and have him get it cast. Perhaps make 2, and sell the second one to offset costs. Although getting an iron casting is not that expensive. But Gary Martin knows which foundries to use for which patterns, which insures you get a good job.

I have my own iron foundry, and so I can cast it myself.