Does longer lathe ways have any disadvantage

[spinningwheels]

When i see on your pics , what you can buy for the same money I total undrstand your choise for china
I paid 1000 euro for my meuser lathe, here we can buy decent old iron for verry little . may I be so rude to ask you what a china lathe cost incuding transport and tax.

Remco

 

[hacklordsniper]

hi I just had a quick look on the web to see what type of lathe you are considering. I until recently had a small commercial workshop with a long and a short bed version of what you are looking at. Firstly you need have no worries at all about rigidity with the longer bed and the previous comment about getting the tail stock out of the way is totally correct.
Plus if you are in my age range 60-70 yrs are you likely to live long enough to wear it out, I only sold mine because my shed workshop floor at home would not have taken the weight. They were real work horses. So if you have the room go for the longer one you never know that extra length may come in very handy one day.
Hope this helps and enjoy your new machine Roy

Thats a comment i was waiting to hear, im 28 at this moment so i hope i will have time to wear it out

 

[hacklordsniper]

When i see on your pics , what you can buy for the same money I total undrstand your choise for china
I paid 1000 euro for my meuser lathe, here we can buy decent old iron for verry little . may I be so rude to ask you what a china lathe cost incuding transport and tax.

Remco

Im not sure howmuch my quote will help you since in different country but im in EU so it can help to some people atleast. I will speak about 1500 mm center distance model.

Depending on the manufacturer (some better, some worse quality) and reseller ( you should really buy from manufacturer, not a reseller) the pricing starts like this

1. Bare lathe, nothing special, 1800 RPM, 2.8 kW motor 3300 -4600 $, 4 jaw, face plate, follow and steady rest included

Mine is a little bit below 10 000 $, and here is what i got (keep in mind i have some special wishes) :

1. Lathe
2. 3 axis dro with constant speed cutting function
3. 5.5 kW motor
4. Frequency inverter Mitsubishi, single phase input, lathe speed variable
5. Geared headstock with 8 gears (usually variable speed lathes leave only H and L gear)
6. Little bits like leadscrew cover, work lamp, feedshaft clutch, toolpost cover... this are all extras
6. 40 position QCTP with 10 normal tool holders, 3 boring holders, 1 cut off tool holder
7. Upgrade to 3000 RPM model
8. 4 high speed steel chucks (3 jaw, 4 jaw self centering, 4 jaw invidually centering, 6 jaw)
9. Lots of bits like indexable tools, rotating center with replacable tips, bull live center, precision level, leveling feet, drill chucks various sizes, arbors... its a very long list, i cant remember all of it now but can post if needed

In the end, lathe is about 7000 $ and acessories are about 2800 $. I bought all acessoires now because they are cheaper, i can be sure they fit my machine perfectly.

So its 9800 $ FOB (free on board China) and there recieved by my agent. There is about 50 $ manipulating fee in harbor and some LCL (less than container load costs) which can be up to 350 $.

Price of sea freight will be arround 790 $, little bit more expensive because i requested acessories separate crate packaging ( last time they put a faceplate in box with lathe and it damaged many things),

10990 $ when it arrives to my port + 5 % customs. 11540 $ ready for pickup in port, since we have trucks at work i will not have any costs from port to my home as some driver will pick it up "by the way". On that add 25 % of goverment tax, but if you own a company like me you get it back. So total cost is 11540 $, which is amazingly cheap for equipment and acessories it comes with.

Enjoy some factory photos, i have many more, even some from casting department . Please note, pictures come from different manufacturers.

 

[hacklordsniper]

Just a little update, due to the spreadsheet error on proforma invoice, machine is actually 1000 $ cheaper, so remove about 1500 $ from price for total, so about 10 000 $us

 

[Niels Abildgaard]

Hard time for european and usa lathe manufacturerers ahead,but I want one:


http://czdm45.en.busytrade.com/selling_leads/info/1203547/Sell-Bench-Lathe-CQ6133.html

 

[spinningwheels]

So about 7350 in euro. with all the options and tools.
I must admit that when I had a budget like that it would be tempthing to go chinese.
I realy like the controll for the frequentie controll on the dro .
I did about the same , took the frequentie controll unit apart end mounted the display and the controll next to the dro.

Recmo

PS I´m also in europe,
The Netherlands

 

[SmithDoor]

I did not know import lathes vs old domestic equipment is a hot topic. I use both domestic and import. They both need work and just fix both.

Dave

Spinningwheels : I think you are spinning your wheels here. You are entitled to your opinion. And the other guys are entitled to theirs. The question here was about bed length . I saw no question about what lathe brand to buy or anything about old iron vs import.
So let it go.There is no need to try to get a argument or debate going about import lathes vs old domestic equipment. . This is one of those hot topics to be avoided.

Some guys like new import equipment some like old equipment . I have some of each. the best lathe is the one that is available at a price you can afford. the cheap old lathe only works if you are standing in front of the deal money in hand and have a way to get it home.
Tin

 

[Tin Falcon]

I did not know import lathes vs old domestic equipment is a hot topic. I use both domestic and import. They both need work and just fix both.

Dave

Dave: I agree that almost any Lathe or mill one buys for the home hobby shop will likely need work. The imports of lack the quality fit finish we expect and old machines may have excessive were or have been abused and or neglected.

as far as it being a hot topic yes it can be and has been in the past.
What folks fail to realize is this hobby is a journey of a thousand paths.
whether one chooses a big lathe small lathe old lathe new lathe..... is going to be affected by many factors. Some of these factors are experience and age, income level geographic location etc. Some people get the my way or highway attitude. or my tools(toys) are better than yours.
I have been involved in on line machinist forums a long time ,about 10 years. I have had to deal with people that got into verbal altercations about old vs new iron.
Tin

 

[Lathejack]

Hacklordsniper.

I think you've made a fine choice of new lathe there, those particular Chinese lathes have a good pedigree as they are based on the old original Colchester lathe design of the 1970's such as the Student 1800 and larger models. Some of the castings are the same, with similar headstock controls and the same screwcutting gearbox controls including the joystick type lever.

Although it could be argued that the shorter bed version is potentially more rigid than the longer machine, you won't notice any problems as the longer bed is still more than rigid enough for anything the lathe is capable of. The Chinese also tend to pour plenty of iron in their castings, particularly the bed, which are usually quite a bit thicker and heavier than similar machines from Taiwan and Korea. The lathes are also bolted to a very hefty one piece cast iron stand which makes the whole thing even more solid.

I have also been thinking about getting one of these lathes as well, over here in the UK they are sold by the Chester Machine Tool company, they call them the Bristol Lathe, BSA machine tools also sell them. I have also been unable to decide whether to go for the 1000 or 1500 version, not because of any concerns about rigidity but because of trying to house it in my workshop, and possibly moving it in the future. I know if I go for the shorter one then not long after I will get a job to make a new shaft or axle that is too long to fit in the lathe.

One of the main reasons I have for possibly going for that particular machine, apart from its Colchester design, is that it is more of a proper industrial spec compared to some other similar sized new Chinese lathes. The headstock spindle is supported on three bearings instead of two, they have a larger diameter corse pitch leadscrew, larger guideways on the bed and a slideway oil pump on the carraige, very nice.

The photos you posted are very interesting, hopefully you will post some more, particularly of the manufacturing process if you have any. Good luck with the lathe and keep us posted how you get on with it when it arrives.

 

[rodw]

I gotta say, I am very jealous. I wish I had the room for something like this when I bought my lathe. It was my second so I went for the biggest I could fit in my (little) shed.

 

[hacklordsniper]

Well my workshop is quite small, but i will push it in somehow.

Here is some more pictures to enjoy. I have more at my work

 

[hacklordsniper]

Hacklordsniper.
The headstock spindle is supported on three bearings instead of two,

I checked this, the spindle is supported on two bearings

 

[Lathejack]

Oh no, that's a bit of a disappointment. Grizzly do a version of it and that shows three bearings and I checked with Chester machines quite a while ago and they claimed three. But if you are speaking to the manufacturer then I would think the info you have is the most reliable.

Regards.

 

[hacklordsniper]

Oh no, that's a bit of a disappointment. Grizzly do a version of it and that shows three bearings and I checked with Chester machines quite a while ago and they claimed three. But if you are speaking to the manufacturer then I would think the info you have is the most reliable.

Regards.

Here is a quote from their website "● With 2 precision D degree taper roller bearings on the spindle.",


but i also sent an e-mail to check, could take a while since the sales guy is on vacation in France for a week.


EDIT: I think i see where is a problem, here is parts of Grizzly manual, lathe uses 3 bearings, but 2 tapered and one ball bearing


free upload pictures


how to print screen on pc

 

[SmithDoor]

This is good size for most work 16x60 inch The only draw back is space if you room long is better if do the work.

Dave

Ready to order my new lathe, still need to clear one detail.

Its 410 mm swing (Chinese CM6241) and can be had in 1000 and 1500 mm center distance. Until now i had 700 mm center distance and was happy with it.

I will never need long working distance as 1500 mm but im considering it because there is a tiny price difference. Is there some disadvantage in having so long ways and not needing them? Is lathe with longer ways in some way more unstable?

 

[gustavus]

Ready to order my new lathe, still need to clear one detail.

Its 410 mm swing (Chinese CM6241) and can be had in 1000 and 1500 mm center distance. Until now i had 700 mm center distance and was happy with it.

I will never need long working distance as 1500 mm but im considering it because there is a tiny price difference. Is there some disadvantage in having so long ways and not needing them? Is lathe with longer ways in some way more unstable?

Had similar problems with my brand new King 14x40, King Canada supplied all new parts for the headstock.

CM6241 -- [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d5gRRVj9jk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d5gRRVj9jk[/ame]

 

[Lindo]

Bought my Real Bull lathe from Amadeal (UK) and a Weiss Mill some 6 years ago.
Yes there are a few fine tuning jobs to be done and stylise to how you want it to work,for the price versus quality,I like the Chinese machines.

John
Spain

 

[TinyTool]

Personally I am siding with Spinning Wheels, on the traditional European lathe.

However, his take on the subject, is just a little too lacking in traditional leanings, and thus not only is the Chinese lathe total garbage, so is the "late period" European lathe, that he is so fond of.

He is a photograph of me using my lathe, sure it's a classical, Kodak moment - with quill and ink, but it's still as fresh as the day it was drawn.

 

[Swifty]

I've got a 14 X 40 Chinese made lathe and I couldn't be any more happier with it. I've had it for 10 years and not one problem.

However we are all getting a bit off topic, the original reason for this topic was whether a longer bed lathe was a good choice.

Paul.

 

[dman]

there may be long term advantages to american or english machines such as long term parts availability. southbend still stocks some parts from when they got started and has all the old records to know what you need based on your serial number.

but i'm sure a chinese lathe of decent size will last the hobbyist quite a long time. and a new lathe won't have bad spindle bearings, or worn out lead screws. and hopefully the ways will be decent and parallel.. i know muelernick has some scraping videos of a chinese lathe and he doesnt seem very fond of it, but if you go around looking at "old" machines you are likely to find a lot of wear that can cause big problems.

a larger machine has a bigger need for leveling. i've worked with large surfacers for engine blocks and cylinder heads as well as seat and guide machines (aka "head shop" machines) and they need to be leveled at both ends as well as down the length because they will twist or corkscrew if all the corners heights aren't set the same. on a lathe or surfacer this will cause he carriage to rock and leave marks in the parts. on the seat and guide machine the fixture won't float on the air cushion.

really the only disadvantage to a longer bed is the time spent on the initial install with a precision level.