De Industrie 2VD5

[xander janssen]

Since my first single cylinder engine is now running, I will start with my next project.

The idea is to build a replica of a "De Industrie 2VD5" engine as build by the Dutch brand "De Industrie" which build various marine and stationary engines between 1910 and 1977.

The VD range was build between 1932 and 1951 in various configurations, where the first digit gives the number of cylinders, VD stands for "viertakt Diesel" which means four-stroke Diesel and the final digit is the cylinder size.

Type	bore	stroke	rpm	HP./ cil.
VD4	200	270	360	20
VD5	230	350	360	30
VD6	250	350	340	40
VD6A.	280	400	330	50
VD7	305	450	300	60

So the 2VD5 is a two cylinder, four-stroke 60 horse power engine.

These were often used in river tugboats, stationary engines for water pumping stations and grain mill as backup power in wind mills during windless days.

I will first design the entire engine in 3D CAD, then make drawings and finally fabricate the engine, most likely in a 2 to 3 year project as I have only limited time due to full time job and a young family with 2 kids under 5 years old.

Main inspiration are these picture, along with detailed documentation received from a tugboat owner that is currently restoring a 1927 tugboat that is powered by a 2VD5

My engine will be a ~ 1:9 scale which brings the bore to 25 mm (1 inch).

Since I do not find myself capable of building a true model Diesel, I will build this engine as a petrol engine diguised as a Diesel engine i.e. hide the carburetor and distributor out of sight and replace the injectors by spark plugs.

 

[GreenTwin]

I like the layout of that engine.
Keep us posted on your progress.

Pat J
.

 

[kuhncw]

Xander,

The 2VD5 will make a very interesting model. I've been watching some YouTube videos of 2VD5 engines. I see what looks like an injection pumps driven by the cam, but there is a pushrod that activates what may be the injector at the cylinder heads. Can you tell us a bit more about the injection system. I know you are building a spark ignited engine, but I'm curious about the diesel fuel system.

Good luck and please keep us up to date as your design progresses.

Regards,

Chuck

 

[Richard Hed]

Since my first single cylinder engine is now running, I will start with my next project.

The idea is to build a replica of a "De Industrie 2VD5" engine as build by the Dutch brand "De Industrie" which build various marine and stationary engines between 1910 and 1977.

The VD range was build between 1932 and 1951 in various configurations, where the first digit gives the number of cylinders, VD stands for "viertakt Diesel" which means four-stroke Diesel and the final digit is the cylinder size.

Type	bore	stroke	rpm	HP./ cil.
VD4	200	270	360	20
VD5	230	350	360	30
VD6	250	350	340	40
VD6A.	280	400	330	50
VD7	305	450	300	60

So the 2VD5 is a two cylinder, four-stroke 60 horse power engine.

These were often used in river tugboats, stationary engines for water pumping stations and grain mill as backup power in wind mills during windless days.

I will first design the entire engine in 3D CAD, then make drawings and finally fabricate the engine, most likely in a 2 to 3 year project as I have only limited time due to full time job and a young family with 2 kids under 5 years old.

Main inspiration are these picture, along with detailed documentation received from a tugboat owner that is currently restoring a 1927 tugboat that is powered by a 2VD5

My engine will be a ~ 1:9 scale which brings the bore to 25 mm (1 inch).

Since I do not find myself capable of building a true model Diesel, I will build this engine as a petrol engine diguised as a Diesel engine i.e. hide the carburetor and distributor out of sight and replace the injectors by spark plugs.
View attachment 140680View attachment 140681

I tend to thimpfk that a diesel woud be easier to build.

 

[xander janssen]

I tend to thimpfk that a diesel woud be easier to build.

I only build one IC engine so far, a petrol engine. If I see how many high precision components a Diesel engine needs e.g. injector and fuel pump, I will stick to petrol engines in the near future. Maybe one day I will try a true Diesel like Find Hansen builds them.

 

[Richard Hed]

I only build one IC engine so far, a petrol engine. If I see how many high precision components a Diesel engine needs e.g. injector and fuel pump, I will stick to petrol engines in the near future. Maybe one day I will try a true Diesel like Find Hansen builds them.

Can you send us some Photos? We LOVE photos. What kind of tools do you have? Do you have a mill or milling attachment?

 

[xander janssen]

Xander,

The 2VD5 will make a very interesting model. I've been watching some YouTube videos of 2VD5 engines. I see what looks like an injection pumps driven by the cam, but there is a pushrod that activates what may be the injector at the cylinder heads. Can you tell us a bit more about the injection system. I know you are building a spark ignited engine, but I'm curious about the diesel fuel system.

Good luck and please keep us up to date as your design progresses.

Regards,

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

The diesel is injected by the fuel pump that is connected to the injector by a tube. The fuel pump is indeed driven by the camshaft and is directly above the camshaft.

Next to the fuel pump, the camshaft operates 3 pushrods: the 1st and 3th operate the outlet and inlet valves.

The middle pushrod operates a "camshaft operated air valve" in the picture below. This image is a cross section right through the middle pushrod.

Before the engine is started, it is cranked in a certain position in which this valve is opened by the camshaft and the piston just past TDC.

To start the engine, the operator opens a valve (not in this image) in the high pressure (200 bar = 2900 PSI) supply line. By that, the air (red route) rushes in, past the camshaft operated air valve that is open and then into the cylinder by pushing open the spring operated "start valve".

This air forces the piston down, and the "camshaft operated air valve" is closed just before BDC.

So for a moment, the engine runs a 4 stroke cycle where the power stroke is by high pressure air instead of burning fuel.

Once the engine is running, the operator closes the high pressure air supply line. Now the normal 4 stroke diesel cycle is running in which the fuel is injected by the fuel pump. The "camshaft operated air valve" is still being operated and continous to open/close during the power stroke. The spring operated "start valve" however remains closed due to the spring force (during intake stroke) and pressure in the cylinder (during compression, power and exhaust stroke).

The manual clearly states that if the air supply line increases in temperature, the engine has to be switched of and the "start valve" needs to be checked. A hot air supply line is caused by this valve to leak and hot gasses passing past this valve upstream through the air supply line which is pressureless during normal operation.

I hope this clarifies why there are 3 push rods and how the various valves are used.

Regards,

Xander

 

[xander janssen]

Can you send us some Photos? We LOVE photos. What kind of tools do you have? Do you have a mill or milling attachment?

I have the following equipment:

- Proxxon PD400 manual lathe (maximum diameter 125 mm x 300 mm between centers), which is a very accurate lathe, capable of reproducible work within 0.02 mm
- Proxxon BFW 40/E manual mill (150 x 150 x 150 mm travel)
- Denford Orac CNC lathe with roughly the same dimensions as the PD400. When I bought the lathe, the previous owner stripped all electronics/control components so I had to refit it with a new control cabinet, computer and control software (EdingCNC)
- Homebuild CNC mill based on a granite frame, a Kress mill spindle and EdingCNC control

​

 

[kuhncw]

Xander,

Thank you for the detailed explanation of the 2VD5 fuel injection and air start systems. In full size application, how is the 200 bar starting air pressure generated? Is the compressor driven independently from the 2VD5?

Also, which CAD software do you use?

Regards,

Chuck

 

[xander janssen]

Xander,

Thank you for the detailed explanation of the 2VD5 fuel injection and air start systems. In full size application, how is the 200 bar starting air pressure generated? Is the compressor driven independently from the 2VD5?

Also, which CAD software do you use?

Regards,

Chuck

In a typical application, the pressure is generated by a compressor that is driven by the engine itself.

This is a chicken/egg problem, so the first time you need another source e.g. a compressor on the shipyard, or a mobile compressor in case the engine is installed as a stationary powersource in e.g. a pumping station, windmill, farm.

Again the manual here clearly warns to keep enough air in the system for at least 4 starts/attempts. In general, people kept/keep their tanks full of air by refilling after each start, just to be safe.

Due to my job as engineer, I have access to both Siemens NX and Inventor, where I prefer Inventor because I'm more used to that.

 

[Richard Hed]

In a typical application, the pressure is generated by a compressor that is driven by the engine itself.

This is a chicken/egg problem, so the first time you need another source e.g. a compressor on the shipyard, or a mobile compressor in case the engine is installed as a stationary powersource in e.g. a pumping station, windmill, farm.

Again the manual here clearly warns to keep enough air in the system for at least 4 starts/attempts. In general, people kept/keep their tanks full of air by refilling after each start, just to be safe.

Due to my job as engineer, I have access to both Siemens NX and Inventor, where I prefer Inventor because I'm more used to that.

What's Siemens NX? Never heard of that.

 

[xander janssen]

What's Siemens NX? Never heard of that.

This a full CAD/CAM/CAE/PLM software like Catia from Dassault.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_NX

 

[theo van der linden]

Since my first single cylinder engine is now running, I will start with my next project.

The idea is to build a replica of a "De Industrie 2VD5" engine as build by the Dutch brand "De Industrie" which build various marine and stationary engines between 1910 and 1977.

The VD range was build between 1932 and 1951 in various configurations, where the first digit gives the number of cylinders, VD stands for "viertakt Diesel" which means four-stroke Diesel and the final digit is the cylinder size.

Type	bore	stroke	rpm	HP./ cil.
VD4	200	270	360	20
VD5	230	350	360	30
VD6	250	350	340	40
VD6A.	280	400	330	50
VD7	305	450	300	60

So the 2VD5 is a two cylinder, four-stroke 60 horse power engine.

These were often used in river tugboats, stationary engines for water pumping stations and grain mill as backup power in wind mills during windless days.

I will first design the entire engine in 3D CAD, then make drawings and finally fabricate the engine, most likely in a 2 to 3 year project as I have only limited time due to full time job and a young family with 2 kids under 5 years old.

Main inspiration are these picture, along with detailed documentation received from a tugboat owner that is currently restoring a 1927 tugboat that is powered by a 2VD5

My engine will be a ~ 1:9 scale which brings the bore to 25 mm (1 inch).

Since I do not find myself capable of building a true model Diesel, I will build this engine as a petrol engine diguised as a Diesel engine i.e. hide the carburetor and distributor out of sight and replace the injectors by spark plugs.
View attachment 140680View attachment 140681

hi Xander
if you converted the drawing to the scale of the build i would like to buy them from you.
i love these old Industrie and Kromhout engines

 

[xander janssen]

Just for correctness, the starting pressure is 20 bar (290 PSI). I misread the manual were it was written 20.0 which I read as 200

 

[xander janssen]

Started the design work by:

- Choosing the scale ratio based on 25mm bore.
- Printing all drawings in right scale on mm-grid paper
- Determining the critical dimensions e.g. piston length, con rod length, compression volume, distance between crankshaft and camshaft

 

[xander janssen]

Currently designing the core of the engine:
- Cylinder liner
- Cooling jacket
- Cylinder head
- Valve Cages

Especially the head is interesting with routing the internal cooling channel and intake/exhaust channel.

Cooling comes in from the bottom into the jacket, leaves on the opposite side, goes through the head and leaves on the top.

 

[xander janssen]

Cylinder liners are finished, apart from a groove/recess to fit it to the crank housing. These will be cut later.

Base material is a piece of honed 25 mm (~1 inch) ID hydraulic cylinder tube.

 

[kuhncw]

Xander,

Your cylinder liners look well done.

I look forward to seeing how your cylinder liner/cooling jacket assemblies will be attached to the crank housing.

Chuck

 

[Richard Hed]

Cylinder liners are finished, apart from a groove/recess to fit it to the crank housing. These will be cut later.

Base material is a piece of honed 25 mm (~1 inch) ID hydraulic cylinder tube.

View attachment 144022

What I likes about this is that you found some hydraulic cylinders which are quite cheap at the scrap yard, rather than bought a new piece at a hi priced place. Wink .

Those hydraulic cylinders are very high quality stuff. Don't know their composition. Can you tell how the machining on 5them went? Were the chips tiny like the usual CI? I have some hydraulic cylinders which I intend to make small steam cylinders with, just haven't gotten around tuit yet. Haven't had a chance to see the chips.

 

[xander janssen]

What I likes about this is that you found some hydraulic cylinders which are quite cheap at the scrap yard, rather than bought a new piece at a hi priced place. Wink .

Those hydraulic cylinders are very high quality stuff. Don't know their composition. Can you tell how the machining on 5them went? Were the chips tiny like the usual CI? I have some hydraulic cylinders which I intend to make small steam cylinders with, just haven't gotten around tuit yet. Haven't had a chance to see the chips.

Richard, I did not find this on the scrap yard, but bought it brand new at a model building shop (costs about 1 Euro/Dollar per cm/half inch). However, the scrap yard is indeed a very good source for these tubes, but you have to be lucky to find them in time before they are cut/bend or thrown into a large pile.

The ID is extremely nice regarding size and surface finish. The composition of the material is unknown to me. Where brass,CI and most aluminium alloys machine like a charm, this material is on the other side of the scale. It is a very tough material that is horrible to machine. Using a carbide insert for steel, gives curly chips/strings of about an inch long. However this leaves a horrible surface finish, almost like 30 grid sand paper. Each time a chip breaks of the surface, it leaves a small sharp burr. Using a carbide insert for aluminium (much charper) results in a completely worn out insert after a single pass.

In my search for a solution I found that the only thing that leaves a decent surface finish and does not eat the tool is using very low RPM i.e. surface feet per minute, a small feed rate and a very sharp HSS tool (below marked in red).

Drawback of this is that the chip does not break at all. You will get a continious long chip of several meters long that will produce a "birds nest" of about a food in diameter per pass. So frequently stopping the lathe and removing the swarf is the only thing you can do. This swarf is so tough that you have to cut it using a wire cutter. You can not tear them by hand without getting cut.

Finally I use a piece of sand paper to smooth out the surface roughness which is still rather high compared to nicely machining material like brass, CI and most aluminium alloys.

Next time I will try to cut them on my CNC lathe with and intermitting feed rate causing the chip to break by stopping the feed every few seconds. Payback for sure will be a more coarse surface finish as each time the chip breaks, it leaves a sharp burr. Just not sure if the tool will survive the intermitting cut as it will engage the material repeatedly.