Cx701 lathe report

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Linz, I agree - it is one thing to have someone be up front about supply problems, and apologetic and eager to help you find a way forward. It is another for someone to say, "oh well - have fun." It feels like someone has flipped you off - infuriating!
 
Update:

Despite several messages that bordered on begging and pleading for an update on my case, BusyBee never did return my calls. Yesterday afternoon I received a n e-mail from customer service saying they just sent the parts out. Nothing else, never addressed any of my concerns or questions. Despite saving them money(and being 3 weeks late), no extra mile here, they sent them Canada Post. Expected delivery next Tuesday, one month after they said they had the parts and were sending them right away.
 
I have been debating on what make of mill to buy and now after reading al the horror stories of problems with motor speed controls on lathes and mills I am loosing confidence the VFD electronics. My drill press and South Bend lathe have virable speeds, just change a couple of belts, no electronics involved. Does anyone still make a mill that isn't dependent on electronics to change the speed? BusyBee and KMS are about the only suppliers of hobby sized mills that I am aware of in western Canada (Calgary) and from what I have read support appears to be non existent. Is the failure rate of these speed controls as bad as it appears because I am willing to change a few belts rather than go through the headaches I have been reading about.
 
I have been debating on what make of mill to buy and now after reading al the horror stories of problems with motor speed controls on lathes and mills I am loosing confidence the VFD electronics. My drill press and South Bend lathe have virable speeds, just change a couple of belts, no electronics involved. Does anyone still make a mill that isn't dependent on electronics to change the speed? BusyBee and KMS are about the only suppliers of hobby sized mills that I am aware of in western Canada (Calgary) and from what I have read support appears to be non existent. Is the failure rate of these speed controls as bad as it appears because I am willing to change a few belts rather than go through the headaches I have been reading about.
Calgary is not that far from Bellingham, is it? I don't know about import tax or any of that but y0u mighnt not have to pay state tax if you have ID from Canada which is substantial: 8%. Also,there might be some mills that have the infinitely variable speed changers where you crank a lever.
 
Calgary is not that far from Bellingham, is it? I don't know about import tax or any of that but y0u mighnt not have to pay state tax if you have ID from Canada which is substantial: 8%. Also,there might be some mills that have the infinitely variable speed changers where you crank a lever.
If you pick up the sale is deemed to have occurred at point of sale - - - - you're paying tax!
 
We have 'the Real Bellingham' which is a delightful village on the North with a grave of a dead thief in the little churchyard. It is famously described as the Long Pack.

It's just one of the tales of the lawless Border between England and Scotland ad is earlier marked with the Roman Wall just to the South.

You see I married a daughter of Liddesdale which is yet another story of Sir Walter Scott in his Waverley novels. Surprising it is not far from the rocket range at Moscow. Different but quite true.

My RAF Squadron used to 'bomb it'
 
Sir John : I too have been reading the horror stories about electronic variable speed machines. I have a 3 year old BB CX 603 mill , belt speed change and no #%!electronic junk. Works VERY well. 270- 3260 RPM 220V 1phase 1.5 H.P. Only changes I made were new North American belts some cheap BB D R O's and to relocate the on/off switch to a more usable position . Had been thinking about a 701 lathe to replace my worn SB heavy 10 but will not do that now. Colin
 
Sir John : I too have been reading the horror stories about electronic variable speed machines. I have a 3 year old BB CX 603 mill , belt speed change and no #%!electronic junk. Works VERY well. 270- 3260 RPM 220V 1phase 1.5 H.P. Only changes I made were new North American belts some cheap BB D R O's and to relocate the on/off switch to a more usable position . Had been thinking about a 701 lathe to replace my worn SB heavy 10 but will not do that now. Colin

Maybe time to find a 'less worn' SB heavy 10 or equivalent.

Warning - - - they move very quickly at in imo relatively high prices.
(Can find bigger machines in decent condition for far less money!)
 
I have no issue with your comments. 'WE" knew that it was about to happen. WE cancelled meetings and had a 'farewell party' to our friends and 'our Brothers'.
Where will it not end, but when like the Great Influenza Epidemic of 1918- will it be 'acceptable'

It's cyclical like the Trade Cycle and it it is not the first nor-- as you rightly think about it not being the last.
I'm a Classics or Grammar - perhaps sort of religious sort of guy-- and knew 'something would happen'

So I have the same hopes and fear as everyone else------- and I look forward to my quarterly dividend from AstraZeneneca who as we know has a successful vaccine against Covid-19

My sincerest good wishes for your health to all. I sincerely hope that it works

Norman

I think that I have slipped between postings.
I'm partially blind but my good wishes are just as well meaning
 
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oldengineguy, You better hang on to that South Bend heavy 10, even with some wear they can make good parts, finding one is not so easy and the cost is out of sight..
 
oldengineguy, You better hang on to that South Bend heavy 10, even with some wear they can make good parts, finding one is not so easy and the cost is out of sight..
As you say! Your ML7 can be slideways ground s new for less than the cost of a Chinese lathe with the risks of a circuit board failure. Again, I have no doubt that a South Bend can be treated imilarly.

For both you still have their dedicated tools on shelf and not to be replaced .
As far a I know, a ML7 can be reconditioned 6 times.
As I've. said, I have a Chinese lathe but it cost LESS than the minimum of reconditioning.
Worth thinking about, Do you agree?


Regards


Norman
 
I have been debating on what make of mill to buy and now after reading al the horror stories of problems with motor speed controls on lathes and mills I am loosing confidence the VFD electronics. My drill press and South Bend lathe have virable speeds, just change a couple of belts, no electronics involved. Does anyone still make a mill that isn't dependent on electronics to change the speed? BusyBee and KMS are about the only suppliers of hobby sized mills that I am aware of in western Canada (Calgary) and from what I have read support appears to be non existent. Is the failure rate of these speed controls as bad as it appears because I am willing to change a few belts rather than go through the headaches I have been reading about.
The electronics are part and parcel with the DC motor models (variable speed control or not). There are various advantages and disadvantages between the DC, and AC single and 3 phase motor set-ups with or without a variable frequency drive. Electronics are great, they are everywhere. Can they fail? Yes, but everything can fail. I think heat and over driving (which can be one in the same) are the biggest enemies of our smaller home/hobby type machines. I'd be more concerned with where you buy from. As you mentioned, vendors of the cheap(er) home/hobby type machines are limited here in Alberta. Make sure you can get after sale support, service and/or parts. For me, BusyBee customer service is a failure. I don't know if KMS is any better but there are a lot of dealers who sell the King brand. I hope that once I get past the initial issue with the machine itself that things will hum along for several years with no problems. Some have reported they are happy with the Craftex machines after using for a couple years or more and I hope to be one as well.
 
I too have been reading the horror stories about electronic variable speed machines. I have a 3 year old BB CX 603 mill , belt speed change and no #%!electronic junk. Works VERY well. 270- 3260 RPM 220V 1phase 1.5 H.P. Only changes I made were new North American belts some cheap BB D R O's and to relocate the on/off switch to a more usable position . Had been thinking about a 701 lathe to replace my worn SB heavy 10 but will not do that now. Colin
I totally agree with a loss of trust in reliability of electronic motor speed controls. I own HF 7x10 since 1999. I also own a Grizzly mini-mill. Both machines use electronic motor speed control. They fail if you overload them or stall simply by accidentally plunging your cutting tool too deep. You may get lucky and just blow the fuse, but if you blow the controller than you are looking at the very expensive replacement. I got sick and tired of it and I bought the only small lathe that doesn't use electronic motor control, Grizzly 9x20. Belts only! My mini-mill has a belt conversion, so I no longer worry about stalls.
Unfortunately the electronic motor speed control becoming standard with most new lathes.
 
The electronics are part and parcel with the DC motor models (variable speed control or not). There are various advantages and disadvantages between the DC, and AC single and 3 phase motor set-ups with or without a variable frequency drive. Electronics are great, they are everywhere. Can they fail? Yes, but everything can fail. I think heat and over driving (which can be one in the same) are the biggest enemies of our smaller home/hobby type machines. I'd be more concerned with where you buy from. As you mentioned, vendors of the cheap(er) home/hobby type machines are limited here in Alberta. Make sure you can get after sale support, service and/or parts. For me, BusyBee customer service is a failure. I don't know if KMS is any better but there are a lot of dealers who sell the King brand. I hope that once I get past the initial issue with the machine itself that things will hum along for several years with no problems. Some have reported they are happy with the Craftex machines after using for a couple years or more and I hope to be one as well.
I write the following hoping to help other new users with electronic DC motor speed control. When I bought my lathe and mill which are similar to the CX machines discussed here, the supplier was most insistent that when starting the machine the speed potentiometer (knob) should be turn all the way to the minimum setting. Then the machine is started and the speed increased to the setting desired. Likewise when stopping the machine, turn the speed to minimum and switch off. This was explained to avoid damage to the control board. I wonder if this might be an inrush current problem that could overload the Triacs and power diodes, thus releasing magic smoke.

Apart from the board failure that resulted in me changing to a genuine KB Electronics board, which I suspect was caused by water ingress from a leak in the roof from a storm, I have followed that advice and have trouble free operation.

I should mention that though I ordered the machines from the UK yet live in France, I did not really expect much support and after I found the Chinese control board faulty I preferred to find my own solution rather than have another of the same boards.

Paul
 
I write the following hoping to help other new users with electronic DC motor speed control. When I bought my lathe and mill which are similar to the CX machines discussed here, the supplier was most insistent that when starting the machine the speed potentiometer (knob) should be turn all the way to the minimum setting. Then the machine is started and the speed increased to the setting desired. Likewise when stopping the machine, turn the speed to minimum and switch off. This was explained to avoid damage to the control board. I wonder if this might be an inrush current problem that could overload the Triacs and power diodes, thus releasing magic smoke.

Apart from the board failure that resulted in me changing to a genuine KB Electronics board, which I suspect was caused by water ingress from a leak in the roof from a storm, I have followed that advice and have trouble free operation.

I should mention that though I ordered the machines from the UK yet live in France, I did not really expect much support and after I found the Chinese control board faulty I preferred to find my own solution rather than have another of the same boards.

Paul
good to know. Hope I can remember this if I ever buy an electronically controlled machine.
 
Paul, I can only agree in part. I have Two lathes of very similar size i.e. 3.5" radius by 19 " and 8" x 16" diameter.

The first is driven by an AC motor whilst the second- a Sieg is - with a funny knob.- and is DC via motherboard.

But the AC mootor can- by belts drop its speed right down to 27 rpm whereas the the Sieg can only do 100rpm and probbly it is 130Rpm.

In practical terms, I can 'swing' 10 whole inches being a Myford Super 7 with gearbox and power crossfeed in STEEL and the Sieg is blowing diodes at its restricted sweep of 8 inches. Whether it will actually cut that diameter is untried and remains a mystery of science.
I can tell you that The Sieg has a small vertical mill drill and blew up on switching on. Years ago- I still have the old motor was 1/4 1440Rpm machine motor driving a Westbury mill drill.

This is my experience over more than 50 years will scrap AC motors.

My Myford motor is split phase but the spare is simply a stand 1440 continuously rated one.
The Sieg was TEN times cheaper than the Myford.

So your views and experiences will be intersting

Beat Wishes

Norman
 
Does anyone still make a mill that isn't dependent on electronics to change the speed? BusyBee and KMS are about the only suppliers of hobby sized mills that I am aware of in western Canada (Calgary) and from what I have read support appears to be non existent. Is the failure rate of these speed controls as bad as it appears because I am willing to change a few belts rather than go through the headaches I have been reading about.

Modern Tool in Calgary sells an RF-45 style mill which is manual gear change. Unfortunately not on their website but they will gladly send you a spec sheet PDF & price quote. I believe its a Chinese one but I've seen it run & actually sounded better than my (albeit '98) Taiwan King RF-45. Much quieter, same HP. I'm not sure what they did but I was moderately impressed. Modern is a big boy machine supply shop so the mills only get bigger from here. Next bigger is Taiwan 935 VS mill (which I have). If you live in Calgary, delivery is a breeze. Competent riggers, not Haulers-R-Us. Unlike the BB & King horror stories, they actually are tied to the factories & can get parts.
https://www.moderntool.com/locations/calgary-alberta/
I believe this is the smallest lathe they carry.
https://www.moderntool.com/products/modern-cq6128x660a-lathe-11-swing-26-between-centers/
 
Paul, I can only agree in part. I have Two lathes of very similar size i.e. 3.5" radius by 19 " and 8" x 16" diameter.

The first is driven by an AC motor whilst the second- a Sieg is - with a funny knob.- and is DC via motherboard.

But the AC mootor can- by belts drop its speed right down to 27 rpm whereas the the Sieg can only do 100rpm and probbly it is 130Rpm.

In practical terms, I can 'swing' 10 whole inches being a Myford Super 7 with gearbox and power crossfeed in STEEL and the Sieg is blowing diodes at its restricted sweep of 8 inches. Whether it will actually cut that diameter is untried and remains a mystery of science.
I can tell you that The Sieg has a small vertical mill drill and blew up on switching on. Years ago- I still have the old motor was 1/4 1440Rpm machine motor driving a Westbury mill drill.

This is my experience over more than 50 years will scrap AC motors.

My Myford motor is split phase but the spare is simply a stand 1440 continuously rated one.
The Sieg was TEN times cheaper than the Myford.

So your views and experiences will be intersting

Beat Wishes

Norman
Hi Norman, I don't know a great deal about the Sieg lathes other than what gets discussed on the Model Engineer magazine's website in the UK. People seem very happy with them and also with what appears to be very good service from Arc Euro Trade. My own machines came from SPG Tools who were a regular Model Engineer site advertiser.

When I discussed my needs and talked about wanting low speed for thread cutting, their response was "no problem we can retune the control board". This they did (it is playing with the pots on the board) and I can get 30 rpm. However the torque at this speed is not very good.

Your Myford has a backgear I presume that enables you to get the torque at the low speed so no probs. However for my needs a Myford is far to small and I wanted the biggest bore through the head I could get. Obviously with your AC motor the lathe could run for years and years.

Best wishes,

Paul
 

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