causing upset

[johnthomp]

i think its time for me to dissapear into my shed and give up asking for advice on this forum due to me and my questions raising serious concern with some of the older and more experienced members of this forum
i only joined this site originaly to gain knowledge of the best way to do things and or how to do things i cant understand wich is what i thought this site was about
before i joined here i was proceeding in so many unsafe practices it was unreal and more often than not lethal
so in the interest of not causeing any more upset ill just call it a day and just do things in my own way and off my own back i just wish my long time family freind and steam guru fred dibnah was still alive i wouldnt have to go elsewhere for advice anymore
so ill probably see evryone around sometime thats if i dont blow myself up with a boiler or something in the meantime
taa taa for now
john

 

[radfordc]

Yes, I can understand you're feelings after getting "slapped around" by our "superiors". It's too bad that those who really know their stuff often choose to take the position of a "net nanny" to those who don't know as much.

Charlie

 

[rleete]

Everyone does something boneheaded once in a while. Most of us get away with it due mostly to pure luck. Best not to press it and have something go wrong.

I'm not always the safest, but I try to follow most of the rules as much as possible.

 

[FIXIT]

Don't go John,


We all (well may be some of us) have ideas from time to time and it;s nice to be-able to get advice on the validity of it but it would be nice not just to be 'told off' but to have it explained why,

I myself was warned not to do something but again no explanation why or the consequences ,but I'm to old to let it bother me,


Steve

I suppose I'm off to Coventry now as well

 

[Jeff02]

John, I share your pain.
I too am NEW to this hobby and would hope that if I asked a question or made a statement about something that I was unsure of I would get a Reasonable answer. I think that is why we have this forum, so that we can ask and rely on the Experts to help. That is the VERY reason I am so hesitant to ask questions or post my thoughts.
I was always told the only stupid question is the one not asked. We should not worry of being slammed for asking Questions.
My two cents worth.

 

[Troutsqueezer]

Effective human communication depends equally on visual and audio cues the communicator sends out as well as the words themselves. The intended meaning of the words without the facial expressions and tone of voice can easily be misinterpreted by the reader. This is one problem with forums; humor, sarcasm, kidding around, can be hard to convey. Some people take a didactic approach to helping others which is their style and that's OK. I think it's important to consider the medium we are using here and we ought not take these replies as being preachy or condescending, regardless of how they read.

Anyhow, the advice here is free. Take it how you can get it and it wouldn't hurt to keep in mind if you were talking to anybody here face-to-face and got the same answer but with a personality attached, you would find they are probably someone you would like to have a beer with. Oh, except for Dean and Zee, for those two, I'll need a martini...

-Trout

 

[Blogwitch]

Yes, I can understand you're feelings after getting "slapped around" by our "superiors". It's too bad that those who really know their stuff often choose to take the position of a "net nanny" to those who don't know as much.

There is no such thing here as 'being slapped around', 'net nanny' or 'superiors', it was a genuine warning about safety, which if it is not stamped upon instantly could very easily become lethal.

Would you use a pressure cooker as a steam source? Maybe not, but someone with less understanding could easily do so.

I would also like to point this out, which was written well before I noticed this post.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=10151.msg112341#msg112341


Bogs

 

[FIXIT]

This is he last time I'm going to involve my self in this thread but as i mentioned before a warning without an explanation confuses me.

Why not use a certified low pressure steam generator/pressure vessel as a low pressure steam generator ?

And the accent is on LOW PRESSURE

Steve

Where do i get my P45 from

 

[Maryak]

Effective human communication depends equally on visual and audio cues the communicator sends out as well as the words themselves. The intended meaning of the words without the facial expressions and tone of voice can easily be misinterpreted by the reader.

-Trout

Guys,

Trout has my vote. :bow: To a greater or lesser extent regular contributors usually manage to find themselves on one or the other side of this equation.

A PM to the perceived offender/offendee sometimes helps to clarify things. At least it's worth a try before you up the ante or pack up your kit.

Should this be one or two Bob's worth ???

Best Regards
Bob

 

[seagar]

It is good to remember,you will catch more flys with honey than vinigar.

Ian (seagar)

 

[bearcar1]

John, I haven't been following the event or events that have led up to your decision to 'go to your shed and hide' and perhaps the advice that you were given about whatever it was that you were trying to learn about wasn't what you wished to hear, but rest assured, that the information, I'm sure was solid and was meant to keep you and or family/friends out of harms way. Please understand that many here have been in this hobby for many, many years and were once had similar questions but did not have the internet to turn to. The wisdom came from an old, what some believe to be archaic, means, and that was reading. The art of obtaining information from the written word. What I am attempting to convey here is that if you get put off by some of the answers you are receiving, maybe the questions aren't being asked correctly or are being interpreted as something that you truly are considering doing, or have done in the past and been extremely lucky to have done so without sustaining bodily harm or property damage. If that is the case than yes, I'm sure you ruffled a few feathers by your references to having done or consideration of doing something that you probably suspected at the time was dangerous. Again, I don't know what started this whole thing, but I urge you not to go away. On the contrary, 'do your homework' as it were, by researching the subjects of your questions from reputable sources such as technical books etc. The internet has some good reference materials but it also has just as much if not more terrible advice and examples so if you are uncertain, here or the library would be my top two choices to get sound advice. I can also speak from experience the frustration that comes from having someone ask me about how to do something and after going into great detail and length in putting together an answer or explanation for the inquiring party, have them return comments or other questions with complete disregard for what it was that I explained to them in the first place. So yes, I can see how some responses could be taken as a bit harsh or abrasive. My opinion, even though you did not ask for it, is to suck it up and mentally digest the information that you were given and continue to be an active participant here at the HMEM. This hobby is quite rewarding, BUT, it can also be harmful if the proper respect isn't shown towards the safety issues involved along the way.

BC1
Jim

 

[steamer]

Jim

Well put....Some of this knowledge has come through great effort and time and in some cases money spent learning how not to do something. That can be difficult to explain to someone and for them to understand unless you've "eaten the same dirt".

As mentioned before, a Forum can be a tough place as intents and inflections can be misconstrued as insults or disdain.....time to put on the thicker skin and spend some time posing the questions...and answers, carefully. I find sketches and pictures convey more than words could ever and they leave less to the minds eye for interpretation. This is hard and I know it doesn't come naturally to me....I do my best and I'm still not very good at it but I'm working on it....A little courtesy and manners helps alot here.....in general, heap it on in large helpings!

I have not found anyone here who is intentionally arrogant, or finds it beneath them to help our new members. On the contrary, the older members of this forum go out of their way to try to help..and its expected that the other older members to behave this way...Its part of the culture of THIS forum to do that. I can assure you there are other forums no where near as friendly to newbies....

in short

Be a student.....this is work...plain and simple....

Put thicker skin on.....everyone has a bad day....

Share the wealth...teach someone else what you learned

Get in the shop and get hopping.....take pictures!

Be safe and have fun doing it!

Think Before you Do!

Hang around...it's nice to have you here!

Dave

 

[seagar]

As an outsider looking in ,What I saw was that the answer to the question wasn't the problem,but the arrogant manner in which the answer was given.There is no need for this type of reply.I for one will still visit this forum every day as usual, but I doubt that I will ever ask a question or submit any of my work or offer any advise in case such rudeness may come my way and ruin my enjoyment of this place and hobby.

Ian (seagar)

 

[dsquire]

This is a quote from the post of johnthomp

Re: is brass brazing rod a good thing to use on copper
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 11:40:49 AM »

Reply with quoteQuote
cheers fella ill just get some more silver solder then and not risk it and i was just going to use solid copper bar for the bushings in the idea that i only want a 20psi operating pressure as i have a compressor for anything higher and running in engines
regards
john

« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 01:03:59 PM by johnthomp »
_____________________________________________________
dont look at what something is look at what it can be


Gentleman

The above is what the post looked like after it had been edited after it was pointed out the possible dangers involved.

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the original post to copy so I can only go by memory. I will not try to recreate the post as I can't remember it word for word but I do know that he was talking about pressure cookers for steam. I read the post before it was edited and thought to myself, here is trouble about to happen.

I believe that most of the posts made here in this thread were made after people read the revised post which puts a totally different view on things.

Cheers

Don

 

[Blogwitch]

Don,

Thank you.

I hadn't realised that the post had been edited to take out the major safety issue about using a pressure cooker for a steam supply, and maybe why people didn't see why I made such an issue of it.

Maybe we should just leave people to show what they want, and say nothing, hoping we don't have too many maimings or deaths because of it.

Safety has always been a major issue on this site, and it is EVERYONE'S responsibility to stop bad practices being shown or discussed.

Issues about safety need to be stamped on and made perfectly clear in no uncertain words. Not have the originator wrapped up in cotton wool and given a tap on the back of their hand. We could be talking about lives at stake here.

I know some people think my attitude might be high and mighty and arrogant, but if it saves just one person having an accident, I'm very sorry, but you can kiss my pimply, hairy a**e.

But just remember and think about it before you start to rant and rave, no ifs, buts or why-fors, it could be your life I save.


Bogs

 

[tel]

Now I'm getting confused, this is the original, unedited, post. query;

im thinking of useing a 4" copper tube to build a miniature lancashire boiler and was wondering due to its size should i use silver solder or would brass brazing rod do the job the same or better
i just dont want to use brass if the heat required is going to obliterate the copper tube coz i cant get another tube
reguards
john

A straightforward question concerning suitable materials. No mention of pressure cookers, saucepans, frying pans or anything else. In fact, 'pressure cooker' does not occur in the whole thread, it is in this thread that it is first mentioned.

I suggest y'awl sit back, cool down, read both threads carefully and then politely raise any queries or objections.

 

[arnoldb]

Tel, Bogs' reply was to the second post that johnthomp posted.

That second post has since been edited. Having seen that post myself before it was edited, I can fully appreciate and support Bogs' reply to the original unedited post.
Unfortunately only half the facts are now visible - and it makes Bogs look bad because of the information that have been edited out.

Johnthomp's original question is valid as you pointed out.

Johnthomp - if you read this, please don't misunderstand my intentions. I feel you are most welcome to the board and the wealth of information available - sometimes its just necessary not to provide too much additional detail in a response

Regards, Arnold

 

[HS93]

On another web site I visit a lot they where having problems with altered posts, people would make remarks about someone wait for them to read it and remove it. the answer was a simple fix, the mods put a time limit on editing posts, also if someone post's another post that locked the previous post, you can still contack the mods to get a vital bit of info or an address altered , it fixed the problem

Peter

 

[Lakc]

On another web site I visit a lot they where having problems with altered posts, people would make remarks about someone wait for them to read it and remove it. the answer was a simple fix, the mods put a time limit on editing posts, also if someone post's another post that locked the previous post, you can still contack the mods to get a vital bit of info or an address altered , it fixed the problem

Peter

In this case, the edit does not seem to be for any nefaroius purpose, as it removed what I would consider a "very bad idea" from circulation. This is the internet, however, and stopping subsequent people from drawing the wrong conclusions from a response to a now edited post is a skillset those people will just have to develop with experiance.

I will agree wholeheartly with trout, about how easy it is to misconstrue, or attribute negative connotations to an internet posting. That too, is a skillset one develops from experiance, and well worth having, as these messageboards are a virtual interactive library of information that is too valuable to do without.

 

[tel]

OK, thanks Arnold, I only saw the post after the edit then. I've really been trying not to get involved in this thread but my feeling was that things were beginning to get a bit distorted. Also, I was not suggesting that Bogs was wrong in what he said, only that he could, perhaps. have said it a little better.

Bottom line, I assume we are all gentlemen here (I know I am ) so let's not let this thing get off the tracks.