beginner wondering about lathes

[doransignal]

I am new to machining and wondering If i should try to find an old one to restore or go with the low end china stuff? I like the SHOPMASTER PATRIOT. but 5000 dollars i think not. It use to be about 1700. I want a good one but a resonable Price.
Any help for a Beginner?

thanks,
Lee

 

[Drei]

I have a Chinese lathe with the milling attachment which i dont relally recommand the mill combimation. In my opinion if you are looking for accuracy you can achieve it with these lathes but as durability you have to take alott of care and caution while machining.. I know youre situation because am also a begginer tahts why i bought a lathe with the mill attachment obviously becasue of the price. I have a weiss lathe and i think as far as i know that is quite good for a chinese. There are others chinese lathes which are a scrap at the first monent you see them for example a sticker indicationg the tool post degresee it kills me my friend ...At the moment i am very happy with the lathe but i searching for a mill... Dont rush with youre chose thats the only certain thing.

Drei

 

[Brian Rupnow]

You're on the wrong forum to start out by bad-mouthing Chinese lathes. Many of our members get by just fine with machines you are labelling CHINA CRUD. Buy what you want, but take your bad mouthing somewhere else. If it wasn't for inexpensive Chinese machines, many of us wouldn't be able to afford to be in this hobby!!!

 

[Metal Butcher]

I am new to machining and wondering If i should try to find an old one to restore or go with the china crud? I like the SHOPMASTER PATRIOT. but 5000 dollars i think not. It use to be about 1700. I want a good one but a resonable Price.
Any help for a Beginner?

thanks,
Lee

I would recommend starting out by taking an honest look at what size projects or type of work you intend on doing.

If your 'new' to machining starting out with smaller machines to learn the basics on, and decide if this is something you can learn to do, and enjoy might be the smart way to go. Are you planning on going to school to learn the basics? Are you planning on buying books to teach your self the basics?

Tell us more about what your interested in building. Do you have any back ground in machining at all? Have you made any projects using hand tools such as a file, hack saw, and drill press? Do you know how to use a micrometer?

Running out and buying a machine on some ones recommendation is not a good first step.

I'm not tying to discourage you. I would be more than happy to tell you which machine(s) to buy. But I have no information to base a recommendation(s) on.

-MB

 

[cl350rr]

My recommendation for someone just getting into machining is take a few classes at the local community college or find someone who will teach you how to safely operate a lathe. when I taught folks I would always make them come to me with a realistic beginners project they wanted to make, then guide them through the headwork, setup and such so they had a reason to learn the different ways the machine is used.

If you can complete a project on a lathe before purchasing your own, it will teach you alot about what you want/need in a machine. you will be much more satisfied with your first.

just my $.02

welcome to the hobby

Randel

 

[bearcar1]

Yes, I have a suggestion for you Lee, and welcome to HMEM. Do not be in a rush to purchase. Shop around and give some consideration into what size of lathe that you foresee yourself using in say 5yrs. If you can envision making larger pieces than bying one of the mini-lathes that are on the market would possibly be a mistake as you would outgrow it in short order. After that, also consider the cost of the tooling that your selected machine will require and its availability. I'm rather partial to South Bend, Monarch, and Myford machines but there are others that will/do perform equally as well. Shop around and get a feel for what is available in the marketplace, keeping costs in mind. Buying a lathe at a good price is a plus but if it is 1000mi. away, getting it delivered or picking it up can become an offsetting problem at best. Then there is the "Do I have the resources to move the beast" question. Do you. Take your time and do your homework, you will likely have to look at several machines before you find the "right one", both in condition and price. It's similar to purchasing a new vehicle. You do not say where you are located but if you can, go to estate sales or shop going out of business sales. Often times that equipment is in reasonable condition and can be gotten for a good price. Remember what I said about tooling. Restoring an old machine may be fine for someone that has the knowhow to do it but for a beginner, I would stay away from that exercise unless a competent person with machine experience can be there for assistance. (not the brother in-law either, I said competent person) ;D Another thing to consider is what type of power does the machine require ei: 110 single or 220 three phase and is that available to you. Again, do not let this stop you from making a decision but keep in mind that any type(s) of conversion process will require added casts and or tradeoffs in performance. A lathe with "Vee" ways is a bit more desirable over one that has flat ways. Having a quick change gearbox for threading is a nice feature as well but not a deal breaker. (some utilize a series of manual interchangeable wheels). I don't mean to be talking down to you if you already understand these things and I apologize if that is how I sound, I just wanted to point out some of the things that can go wrong when buying that first machine in case that you did not. Good luck, let us know what we can do to help answer your questions and be sure to tell us a little bit about your metal working interests or skill level. Above all, be safe and have some fun.

BC1
Jim

 

[Philjoe5]

I would suggest you NOT buy an Oriental made lathe. Your reference to them as "china crud" will make it all too easy to fault the tool not the operator every time you make a bad part. Instead of trying to learn why the part was made poorly it will be easy to blame the machine.

As Brain stated, many forum members here have made highly complex and sophisticated mechanical devices using lathes made in the Orient.

 

[chads]

I purchased my lathe and mill from Grizzly Tools about 15 years ago. They are still going strong with many hours on them. I started without any experience. Then took a couple night classes and picked up alot more knowledge. Good luck with your purchase and have fun

 

[Ken I]

I have a no name brand Chinese lathe and mini-mill and while I bad mouth the equipment occasionally it was a well informed choice as to value for money. Yes there are always somethings that could / should have been better.

You will not hear me bad mouthing the work that comes off them - because that's my workmanship / fault - not the machine's.

Heed the advice of the first reply - if the scales are stickers - forget it.

Ken

 

[ironman]

Welcome and I agree with what most are saying. With more emphasis on what Brian and Troutsqueezer said. wEc1 th_wwp


ironman (Ray)

 

[doransignal]

maybe i should of started this thread with which tool will i get the most bang for my buck?

 

[Foozer]

I hadn't seen a lathe since some 40+ years ago, was fun then and thought it would be fun now, and it is. For me a HF unit would be an upgrade as I'm using an old Craftsman 109 AKA "Boat Anchor." It does however have one redeeming feature. It was free. Now when the day comes that I can make more good pieces than bad, perhaps a newer machine will be in order.

Point is, get something to get your feet wet with, see if you actually want to spend the coin for the upgrades, I have enough spur of the moment, I can do projects around to last me a life time. All sadly sitting in the garage as interest waned.

No doubt there is a certain therapeutic quality to turning a hunk of metal into a work of art (subjective of course) It is however, more the quality of the operator than it is the machine.

Robert

 

[Troutsqueezer]

Welcome and I agree with what most are saying. With more emphasis on what Brian and Troutsqueezer said. wEc1 th_wwp


ironman (Ray)

I don't like to say unkind things so I withdrew my post. I am now wondering however, how many more engines I will be able to make before my "chinese crud" falls apart and kills me. :big:

 

[Brian Rupnow]

It is never a good idea to go seeking advice from people and then insult them all in the same breath. However, I was young once too, and often opened my mouth only to change feet, so I'm going to cut you some slack. I have a Chinese 10" x 18" lathe (B227L) from BusyBee tools in Canada and a CT129 Chinese mill from the same outfit. They are absolutely marvelous machines for the price.---Would they stand up in a high production environment???----Probably not. Are they good hobby machines??---Definitly!! I have produced many engines, both steam and internal combustion with them, and I am very pleased with both machines. BusyBee only sells in canada, but as I understand it, the person who owns BusyBee has a brother in USA who sells an equivalent machine under a different name.--Perhaps some other member can tell you what they are, because I can't remember.---Brian

 

[Maryak]

I came to this site to hopefully get some more information and ideas on equipment. It seems that some people find it better to attack someones opinions than give some good advice.

Biased remarks which appear to be based on ignorance such as China Crud are IMHO not an ideal way to seek advise. All of us with Asian machinery are somewhat wary of offering anything helpful.

I ment no harm just tring to find out information. I have no background in machining.

That's good to know.

At the outset Chinese and to a lesser extent Taiwanese machinery was substandard when compared to the well known South Bend, Myford, Colchester, and Hercus brands favoured by model engineers. Much like the early Japanese products were. As we all know Japanese products are now very highly regarded. China has not yet made this leap to prominence but in terms of overall value for money their hobby/small metalworking machines are hard to beat.

The capital outlay for machinery is just a start, tooling, tools and more tooling, tools and accessories also play a large part in gobbling up the hobby dollar.

Good Luck in your quest to find some machinery.

Best Regards
Bob

 

[Layne]

If you've never used a Hardinge lathe, you really cannot appreciate how bad the chinese machines really are. The difference is literally as big as the price difference, a new Hardinge is currently $70,000. Obviously the memebers of this forum and thousands of other people have proven that the chinese machines are adequate, especially for hobby useage. If I had to use one at work all day I would pull my hair out. Making accurate parts on them is a chore. That's not to say you shouldn't buy one. Most hobbyists have to choose between a $1,000 lathe or none at all, not choose between a $1,000 lathe and a $70,000 lathe. They are definitely better than no lathe at all.

 

[lathe nut]

Lee, I bought a used Atlas 12" lathe price real right, parts real worn did not know any better at the time, so my wife bought me the 7X10 HF lathe in 1997 to make some parts for the Atlas, I love the little machine it does great work and does not make mistakes I do, it has have been trouble free and since have picked up another for fifty dollars, had a burnt fuse, I also bought the 14X40 now that a real nice machine with all one needs and super accurate, so get what you can afford and work your way up and there is all the help one needs with this group of people, they are a well spring of wisdom, good luck and have fun, Lathe Nut

 

[jct842]

I am a beginner. for a couple years I drooled over the southbends that people said could be had for cheap. I looked and looked and never once found one I could afford. Had I bought the 7x12 lathe and the micro mill then, I would have 2 more years of experience using them. I kind of wish I would have spent more and got the mini mill instead but I am still learning how to use what I have. If I did not go chinese I would not have anything except desires right now. If I had to replace them I would go to LMS and get the lathe and mill they sell. john

 

[cl350rr]

it is highly unlikely that your first lathe will be ideal or the last lathe you buy (assuming you continue machining). my first lathe didn't even have provision for power feed. no change gears... nada. I spent more time making parts for it than making other things but I learned alot about that lathe, it left my hands in much better condition than I got it and I had a very good idea what I wanted in the next lathe. I am now on my 6th and none of them were new.

Randel

 

[Layne]

You guys talk about southbend like it's a great lathe. It's not, but it's a good lathe. Accuracy is about on par with a modern chinese lathe. Chinese ones have a lot of swithces that break and handles that fall off, so it is a little better in that regard. The southbend I have at work is a good little lathe with a lot of cool accesories, and I'd love to have it at home to play with, but it just has plain bronze spindle bearings. They clearly weren't even trying to make an accurate lathe. The Hardinge has grade 7 spindle bearings with a 90mm OD. Spindle runout is guaranteed to be within 25 millionths of an inch.