Why Is Steel So Expensive?

[mcostello]

Every Dollar counts for Us, for the VIP'S- not worth considering.

 

[bobs7-62steamair]

The world stage of metal prices is confusing and probably rigged against the consumer in a lot of cases. I won't buy from McMasters Carr and some others in the US due to their excessive prices, most of the time their prices are 3-5x other suppliers. I continually find the best deals from Speedy Metals and local sources to take care of most of my modeling material needs. If you have a local metal monger that deals in scrap bar stock count your blessings. Steel mills in this country that are being constructed or currently in use have a very small discharge footprint compared to mills before 1950.

 

[goldstar31]

E455. Perhaps you haven't a clue what makes me tick but it isn't Entropy-- what ever that is.

One thing that I can tell you is that I bought a Sieg C4 lathe which is currently priced at £1,800 without accessories and that I paid £350 for one with some accessories.

What does it weigh? No idea.

It's a bit like my late wife who was talking to her next door neighbour. She was buying a new Volvo car and my dear wife said 'What colour' to which she got a reply' Who cares what colour, we are buying 14- if you come in ,we'll get a bigger discount!'

There's a message which answers a few posters here

Norm

 

[wolframore]

a lot of metal suppliers are using the Trump tariff to justify raising prices since imports are non competitive.

 

[TimW]

In my experience, some US speciality steel suppliers will ship to Australia but the freight and handling costs are prohibitive and it seems to take many weeks to get here. A better option seems to be to deal with steel suppliers who have a local presence here in Aus like Bohler but they don't seem to stock reasonable equivalents to many things such as 1144 Stressproof which I gather is readily available in the US. A cheaper all around solution is to scrounge for and recycle automotive scrap like old truck axles however with this approach you are usually left guessing as to the specs of the material you are working with if that is important to you.

 

[Wizard69]

Interesting conversation and points of view. In any event I'm actually glad that we are seeing something done about the very unfair trade practices that have damaged so many industries in the USA.

However the complaints here about steel prices really are out of place. Steel has been at historically low prices and in fact scrap prices have been as low seven cents a pound for mild steel less than a year ago. It was so cheap that people would give away scrap mild steel to avoid the cost of actually trying to scrap it. So any increases in steel prices will only be a positive for the steel industry which has been on the ropes. for some time in the USA.

Now for buying steel, you will not get good pricing buying shorts of prime material. Once you buy non standard lengths cut to order you costs will go up significantly for the "service". That goes for the big retailers like MSC or McMaster-Carr and even the smaller online distributors of small chunks of steel. Your best bet here is to look for a local distributor selling to the tool and die industry that normally offers a cut to length service. Of course if your near by city has no tool and die industry you are stuck.

One alternative is is you have a large distributor of steel products near by, is the drops section. That is materials that are sold as non prime (recently about $1 to $0.60 a pound). I try to visit my local supplier (Klein Steel's "Express Metals Outlets") about once a month. Once in a while you get lucky and find bar stock marked with its grade. I picked up a bunch of 8620, 2" bar awhile ago and scored a chunk of 1144 or 5" diameter a while ago. Other bar stock is mystery metal but in some cases that doesn't matter as long as it machines. The only real killer is the minimal charge which sometimes means buying a little extra to get your weight up.

In any event my point is there are options for steel out there. If you are looking for something specific and are in a hurry you will nto get the bargains. But a bit of careful shopping can make a huge difference in your hobby's cost.

 

[Entropy455]

There's a local recycler I like to purchase my steel from. My most recent big purchase was just under 100 feet of 4" diameter round bar for 400 bucks - and a piece of 4 foot diameter pipe with 1" walls for 175 bucks.

The last new steel I purchased was D2 round bar, which cost me about $4.50 per pound (ouch!)

My new big lathe was 14 cents per pound - obviously used, but I'm super excited about it. . .

The steel I used to build my gantry crane was obtained from an elementary school renovation project - again, purchased at scrap value.

Every now and then some nice brass/bronze bar shows up, but I'm always hesitant to buy it - because I'm worried it might contain beryllium.

 

[Charles Lamont]

We are currently experiencing the worldwide atmosphere pressuring the United States to give in to their favor. I haven’t a clue how or if he will fix it. It is very complicated and essentially leveraging those other countries supplying the raw materials may or may not be to favor. In many cases they just play angry and don’t care holding out until the USA gives in. That is to speak to history we tend to always back pedal and everyone knows this. I think I’m the given case it will take more than a term and whomever comes in next may not have the same attitude in leveling out this trade war.

The perspective from outside the US is somewhat different. Firstly, your man started the current mess in economically naive and counter-productive but populist actions which ensured he would be able to blame everyone else for the predictable backlash. Chinese dumping is a problem, but this is not the way to go about fixing it. This is bad for everyone. And secondly, it is impossible to get any trade agreement through Congress that is not tilted substantially in the favour of the US.

 

[Entropy455]

Charles, so what you're really saying is that other countries have been price-gouging the US, and Trump is finally putting an end to it - which has got everyone in a tizzy. . . . .

I agree with your assessment completely.

 

[tornitore45]

In the US e-bay and Amazon are the cheapest sources. With any luck you find a piece the size you need. Shipping is reasonable because the sellers package to take advantage of the US mail flat rate boxes.

 

[Sleddog]

I just checked Hobby Metal Kits .1 foot of 12L14 is $30.45. They specialize in supplying small quantities for us .

 

[mcostello]

Our Industries have been picked apart to pieces by other Countries. How to get them to the bargaining table to renegotiate? Trump picked one way. I think We ought to have reciprocal treaties, You tax Our cars so much We tax You somewhere else that much.

 

[Charles Lamont]

Charles, so what you're really saying is that other countries have been price-gouging the US, and Trump is finally putting an end to it - which has got everyone in a tizzy. . . . .

I agree with your assessment completely.

Yea, whatever. I am not going to rise to it. We are way off topic anyway.

 

[goldstar31]

If the US Government is going to build or rebuild smelting works and also put additional taxes on imports, I frankly can't see any other outcome.

Maybe someone is thinking that there could be another war when homegrown steel will be again vital.

Just someone who has seen more than enough of wars and rumours of them

N

 

[Entropy455]

The unfortunate reality is that nuclear weapons will be used during the onset of large-scale war - not 4 years into it, and LONG before there's any steel shortage. I'm not speculating as to which nation will fire first - just pointing out that WWII type military buildup & conflict are a thing of the past.

Charlels Lamont, "why is steel so expensive" is quite literally the topic of this thread. . . .

 

[tornitore45]

Just for the sake of argument and idle talk. in case of war remember that the Manhattan project developed an entire branch of applied physic in less than 6 years. A fest 100 harder that jump starting US steel production from scratch. In case of war there will be modern steel mills running in 3 months. But hat is just idle talk.

 

[Cogsy]

I'm not an economist (thankfully) but my understanding is: customers always want cheap product and US product has been too expensive, so cheaper imported metals have been purchased. Now policies have been put in place to make it far too expensive to purchase imported metals (the tariffs everyone is talking about), so now the consumers have no choice but to purchase the more expensive domestic product. Increased demand for the domestic product and lack of competition from the imported product (due to the tariffs) allows domestic suppliers to further increase their pricing/profits.
So from all this - I can't see how the importation of cheaper product can be construed as 'price gouging' and the prices now being complained about are from American companies charging American consumers - surely the rest of the world can't shoulder the blame for that?

 

[Entropy455]

Cogsy, foreign nations purchase US coal & scrap iron (mainly our scrap iron/steel). They use these materials to produce fresh steel on their own soil - steel which they then sell back to America at VERY appreciable profit. Yes, we get paid for the coal and scrap iron - however the net effect is our lining the pockets of foreign nations (see Trade Imbalance).

It is true that US put itself into this predicament - through over-the-top environmental regulations.

That being said - the steel industry is only one part of a much larger trade imbalance problem. Tariffs alone will not fix the slice that is expensive steel. Trump must also relax US environmental regulations relating to steel foundries - back to 'reasonable' levels. Then when more steel foundries are built, and their operating/production costs go down - the cost of domestic steel will drop sharply.

Remember, Trump is not a politician. He's a self-made cutthroat billionaire businessman. He's also not in the pockets of special interests. These facts alone are striking fear into the nations that have been taking advantage. . . .

 

[IanN]

The average US steel worker (or general citizen) aspires to own two cars, two computers, an iPhone for each member of the family, live in a large house and eat meat every day

The average Chinese or Indian steel worker (or general citizen) aspires to own a bicycle, accommodate their family in two rooms and get enough rice to feed them each day

The source of the problem with US domestic manufacturing costs is pretty obvious....

All the best,
Ian

 

[99Norton]

https://agmetalminer.com/metal-prices/carbon-steel/
Always dear if you can't buy drops which is why I scavenge and sometimes buy Mysterium from scrap yards.
Engineering shops are good to approach as a home machinist as they will often sell a small piece.