Which project for a Sherline mill and lathe

[Harry Mueller]

Hello folks,

I have in my possession a Sherline mill and lathe, very little experience in running them and a very real desire to build an IC engine. I've acquired Plans for the Webster and the ML Midge with a hope to perhaps eventually building both.

In playing with my Sherline equipment I've noticed some definite limitations due to its small size. For example, I wouldn't be able to turn the flywheel of the Webster on the lathe although a possible work around might be possible on the rotary table.

My question is, has anyone built either of these projects with Sherline equipment? Or might there be more suitable projects for a beginner with these machines?

Thanks,
Harry

 

[kuhncw]

Harry,

Sherline sells a riser block set that would give enough swing to accommodate the Webster flywheel.

Chuck

 

[Harry Mueller]

Thanks Chuck, that part is on my wish list. However, the maximum diameter that can be held in any of the Sherline chucks is 2 3/4". And then there is the issue of the fairly short cutoff tool.

Many years ago my wife gave me a Bob Shore Hercules engine kit and I'd like to gain some experience on a bar stock engine build before tackling the castings. If someone else with Sherline machines has built either of these motors, or any other similar simple project, I'd love to hear about it.

Harry

 

[kuhncw]

Harry, there is a small hit and miss engine designed by Dave Kerzel. Flywheels are 3.5 inch dia.
http://www.floridaame.org/GalleryPages/g1h0106.htm

Also there is the Tiny designed by Arv. Flywheels are 1.75 dia. https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/tiny-i-c-engine.7397/#post-80612 Hopefully the link works.

You might get around the Sherline chuck work diameter limit by mounting your flywheel blank on an arbor or by making a faceplate fixture of some type to hold the flywheel blank.

Chuck

 

[editor123]

You might consider building Humbug, a 1.47cc model airplane engine as either a glow plug or diesel. It was designed by Ron Chernich specifically to be build on Sherline-sized equipment. I built the model used for the example in the article on my Sherline mill and lathe. The extremely detailed build instructions assume the reader has limited or no machining experience and so the article series takes from issue #21 of Model Engine Builder magazine through issue #27. Am I tooting my own horn? Absolutely. But the article is the most detailed instruction set ever created for machining an engine out of bar stock. www.modelenginebuilder.com for further information.

 

[Harry Mueller]

Thanks again, Chuck. I've downloaded both sets of plans and will look at them. I noticed in the build notes, David suggests his motor is not a beginner's build but perhaps a third project after an air engine and a stirling. Well, I've got 2 air engines on the go and plans for a stirling that might work with my Sherline equipemnt.

The Tiny is likely perfect for my equipment but perhaps a bit too ambitious for my present level of machining expertise. I will study the plans to see if its a feasible project for me.

I do like both engines.
Harry

 

[Harry Mueller]

You might consider building Humbug, a 1.47cc model airplane engine as either a glow plug or diesel. It was designed by Ron Chernich specifically to be build on Sherline-sized equipment. I built the model used for the example in the article on my Sherline mill and lathe. The extremely detailed build instructions assume the reader has limited or no machining experience and so the article series takes from issue #21 of Model Engine Builder magazine through issue #27. Am I tooting my own horn? Absolutely. But the article is the most detailed instruction set ever created for machining an engine out of bar stock. www.modelenginebuilder.com for further information.

Thanks, I'll certainly take a look at that. I'd prefer to build something under .08 cu inches since I have an unfinished model in the rafters that would host a smaller glow/diesel engine. However this project looks ideal for what I want to do. Got me thinking again.

I did a search on the website and it looks like the engine build is from issues 21 to 26, 28, 29.

Harry

 

[crueby]

The headstock on the Sherline lathe also can be rotated 90 degrees so the flywheel would hang off the back of the bed - I used that to turn a large flywheel a couple of times.

 

[Harry Mueller]

The headstock on the Sherline lathe also can be rotated 90 degrees so the flywheel would hang off the back of the bed - I used that to turn a large flywheel a couple of times.

That got me looking and I found some info on turning the mill headstock 90 deg to do the same thing. Loads of ways to do something. Looks like almost anything is possible given enough imagination.

Harry

 

[Wizard69]

That got me looking and I found some info on turning the mill headstock 90 deg to do the same thing. Loads of ways to do something. Looks like almost anything is possible given enough imagination.

Harry

This it is is pretty much true of any set of machine tools. That is there is more than one way to do something.

Honestly I get more satisfaction from learning how to machine than I do with the completed project. Of course my completed projects are simple tools at the moment.

Which brings up another point, if you don’t have any machining skills hold off on trying to make an engine! That might be frustrating but building up skills on cheaper projects makes a lot of sense. This is specially if you make tools that will last you a lifetime.

Some beginners projects include:
1. Prick punches and center punches.
2. Dowel pin punches.
3. Tap wrenches
4. Tap follower
5. Die stocks. Including a guided stock for the tailstock on a lathe.
6. Clamp sets and accessories for setup.

This list could go on and maybe others will add to it. The point here is to pick a few projects to develop skills on and produce something useful so that you are not wasting your time. You want to learn how to select operating speeds, tools and other setup needs to execute a project. You goals would be holding tolerance, getting good surface finish and having the right order of steps.

Another skills builder is toys like a thumb engine. Again the goal is to build confidence before starting in on an expensive bar stock build. The reality is this everyone off s has had is embarrassments (if that is the right word) when making stuff. Becoming familiar with the tools and technology on simple items makes it less likely to screw up a you first engine though that happens too.

Screw ups are so easy to make that it really frustrates you when it happens. Just about a week ago I was making ups tool holder for an old lathe quick change tool post and screwed it up just enough that I wanted to chuck it through a window. I blame that on being call out to the production floor in the middle of the project. Crap happens I guess but the point is it is very easy to make a part so it will not fill its intended purpose. Sometimes it is a simple issue of experience.

 

[Harry Mueller]

Thanks Wizard69, good suggestions. Some tools that I might actually use myself would be a gratifying build and are certainly part of my plans.

Since I posted the initial question I've been busy and have had some moderate successes. I actually feel there is hope for me and my confidence is growing daily.

I've completed a little air engine called the "Rocker engine" and it runs very nicely on a little compressor. I've also got two wobblers nearing completion, one called a "David Steam engine" and the other a fairly generic wobbler design that I've changed up a bit to expand my experience. Both might be tested on air tomorrow. Next up will be a Stirling motor.

In addition, I've started machining the frame for the IC Tiny. Not sure if that motor is within my capabilities at this point but it's so small that material costs are not much of a factor should I fail.

I just put in a fairly substantive order with Sherline to expand the capabilities of my equipment to handle my ultimate goal; the Bob Shores Little Hercules.

I must say I'm enjoying this hobby much more than I thought I would and kind of wish I had started earlier in trying to gather some machining skills.

Harry

 

[dethrow55]

hello harry i have a taig mill and lathe somewhat similar to a sherline. ive been making a lotta tools and learning how to do setups various measuring setups. i also want to build ic enginees start small and work up as skills increase. oh also have a unimat . i search the web for small tools and cool items to make amassed a lotta of drawing and pics of tools to make. just a few items ive made

 

[lbarnett48]

Thanks Wizard69, good suggestions. Some tools that I might actually use myself would be a gratifying build and are certainly part of my plans.

Since I posted the initial question I've been busy and have had some moderate successes. I actually feel there is hope for me and my confidence is growing daily.

I've completed a little air engine called the "Rocker engine" and it runs very nicely on a little compressor. I've also got two wobblers nearing completion, one called a "David Steam engine" and the other a fairly generic wobbler design that I've changed up a bit to expand my experience. Both might be tested on air tomorrow. Next up will be a Stirling motor.

In addition, I've started machining the frame for the IC Tiny. Not sure if that motor is within my capabilities at this point but it's so small that material costs are not much of a factor should I fail.

I just put in a fairly substantive order with Sherline to expand the capabilities of my equipment to handle my ultimate goal; the Bob Shores Little Hercules.

I must say I'm enjoying this hobby much more than I thought I would and kind of wish I had started earlier in trying to gather some machining skills.

Harry

Harry, I too have a Sherline Mill and Lathe. I use the lathe a lot for small things. I do have a large floor mill and a larger lathe. I found the Sherline mill not ridged enough and the cuts would tend to be choppy. However, I am working on a project now that would do well with the Sherline. It is the J. Jonkman Sterling 60. It is a very nice looking engine and the plans are available online for free.

 

[Harry Mueller]

I had downloaded the plans for the Sterling 60 earlier but thought the project was beyond my capabilities. I also wondered about sourcing some of the materials required. But your post has piqued my interest again and I think I may consider it after my two successful builds. It sure is a beautiful engine.

Harry

 

[Wizard69]

Harry, I too have a Sherline Mill and Lathe. I use the lathe a lot for small things. I do have a large floor mill and a larger lathe. I found the Sherline mill not ridged enough and the cuts would tend to be choppy. However, I am working on a project now that would do well with the Sherline. It is the J. Jonkman Sterling 60. It is a very nice looking engine and the plans are available online for free.

That Sterling 60 sounds interesting. I've been working on trying to get a machine shop up to the point where I can actually make something! Unfortunately seems like something is always turning up to take funds form shop building. Thus right now I have a lot of interest in "Easier" lathe builds.

As for the Sherline mill, every machine has its niche.

 

[CFLBob]

Just checking in as another Sherline owner. I started out on a manual lathe, found a CNC mill surplussed out of a school system that I resurrected and then modified. Now, I have two Sherline lathes, manual and CNC, and have spent the last couple of months making the CNC lathe better at threading. My mill has the extended envelope mod that A2ZCNC used to sell, and I don't know of an alternative now that they're closed.

The Little Machine Shop wobbler steam engine could probably be done on the Sherline. The flywheel is the only thing I'm not sure of. It looks like it would fit in the 3" chuck (their PN 1040) with the jaws reversed (as outside jaws), but I did mine on a bigger lathe.

Still, I'm tending to use my Sherline machines for the smaller parts on projects that I'm doing and do the larger parts on the bigger tools. These are a couple of parts from my Philip Duclos flame eater engine, both done on the rotary table on the Sherline mill. Since they were right under the headstock they very easily fit in the work envelope.

 

[Harry Mueller]

I'm starting to worry about catching the bug that many on this forum have; that of owning two sets of machinery, a big and a small. I've already run into the Sherline limitations more often than I had hoped.

My first fix at trying to remedy this situation was to order all the various extenders and riser blocks that will hopefully increase the capabilities of my mill and lathe. I received the order yesterday and at first glance looks promising. I do understand I will now have to be more careful since any alignment errors will be magnified.

I really have no desire to build large projects or to slice off 1/4" of SS at each pass. I'm old enough to have learned that patience will beat exuberance most days.

I've now completed two air engines that are running nicely and will likely finish a third today. Then its off to the next, as yet undetermined, project. Ive been poring over plans for the Tiny IC, the Shirling 60 and a couple of Jan Ridders plans that he kindly forwarded to me. I believe the new Sherline parts along with a bit of head scratching and possible ingenuity would allow me to complete any of those projects.

Thanks for all the responses guys (or gals), I truly appreciate them.
Harry

 

[Wizard69]

I'm starting to worry about catching the bug that many on this forum have; that of owning two sets of machinery, a big and a small. I've already run into the Sherline limitations more often than I had hoped.

Owning two sets of machinery isn't really a problem. I've seen Sherlines in very large tool rooms simply because it can be the right machine for a job.

My first fix at trying to remedy this situation was to order all the various extenders and riser blocks that will hopefully increase the capabilities of my mill and lathe. I received the order yesterday and at first glance looks promising. I do understand I will now have to be more careful since any alignment errors will be magnified.

Those riser blocks might work for you but in all honestly I would not have suggested their purchase. Sherlines by their nature are light weight machines, adding extenders just puts you in a position where you are compromised on rigidity, spindle power or some other issue. Given that I've seen guys to extremely large work for the machine size (in this case a TAIG) but it isn't an easy path to take.

I really have no desire to build large projects or to slice off 1/4" of SS at each pass. I'm old enough to have learned that patience will beat exuberance most days.

You might not want to take a 1/4" cut in stainless but when it comes time to work on a "work hardening" SS alloy you will want to be able to achieve proper feed rates and power at lowish spindle speeds. This is often where people struggle with the small machines, sometime the materials being worked on require a certain performance at the spindle. Of course avoiding such materials can save your some grief.

I've now completed two air engines that are running nicely and will likely finish a third today. Then its off to the next, as yet undetermined, project. Ive been poring over plans for the Tiny IC, the Shirling 60 and a couple of Jan Ridders plans that he kindly forwarded to me. I believe the new Sherline parts along with a bit of head scratching and possible ingenuity would allow me to complete any of those projects.

Thanks for all the responses guys (or gals), I truly appreciate them.
Harry

 

[Harry Mueller]

I understand the limitations of extensions with the Sherline equipment, as a matter of fact I was appraised of that matter by the Sherline folks themselves. I've already run into issues that I hadn't seen with the old setup but that just may be a fault with my conversion. I'll have to see. As far as owning two sets of equipment, that's a non-starter. I'm in my mid 70's and have other hobbies and interests, more than enough to keep me busy.

My goal here is to gain enough experience to build the Bob Shore's Little Hercules engine because my wife gave me the casting kit as a gift a number of years ago and I would really like to complete it, if only for her. The unavoidable truth of the matter is that I'm now really enjoying getting down into the "machine shop" each morning to take the next step in my education. I've recently completed 3 working air engines and I'm ready to move on to a more challenging project. Not sure what that will be since I seem to be missing at least one key component with all the plans I'm looking at.

I'm more than willing to work within the limitations of the Sherline equipment as long as I can solve any machining issues that arise. Time in my case is not money but rather something I have in abundance. And should there be a problem too big for my equipment, there are always machine shops in town that I'm sure would be willing to help out. It would help their cash flow.

Harry

 

[Wizard69]

Harry I wish you all the best! I'm hoping to make it to retirement to have more time to devote to several interests my self. Last year in the shop at work, two guys didn't make it to retirement and that has had an impact on me. Thus I'm really wanting a way out (out of work not life) to hopefully enjoy a few years of peace. Between work, bills and jobs around the house though little time is there to devote to "fun".

While I'm sure your wife wants to see the engine completed I'm willing to bet everyone here is waiting on a few pictures.